Really easy Question about Excell

**skelooth** · 07-02-2006, 02:01 AM

Do I take the Excell postworkout INSTEAD of taking whey protein?

Bonus question, do you think it'd be okay if I lived off of the protein cookie mix?

DJohnson · 07-02-2006, 03:13 AM

If anything subtract EXCELL from your preworkout and consume before and during your workout. This way you get the most out the increased stamina and reduced muscle soreness.

And yes, living off the cookie mix would rule.

Brent · 07-02-2006, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJohnson

If anything subtract EXCELL from your preworkout and consume before and during your workout. This way you get the most out the increased stamina and reduced muscle soreness.

And yes, living off the cookie mix would rule.

Subtract it from your preworkout and consume before and during your workout?
That doesn't make a bit of sense.

**skelooth** · 07-02-2006, 03:54 AM

I think he meant postworkout

I don't know, BCAAs confuse me, and I wonder if they are worth the extra money..... as a "weekend bodybuilder" i can't help but see all the money I've thrown away on things that just did not deliver bang for the buck.

Cookie mix... now THAT is something worth the money. 3 cookies and a class of full fat milk sounds like a balanced meal to me

Brent · 07-02-2006, 03:58 AM

You have no idea what it is like to throw away money on BCAAs. No idea at all.

**madman911** · 07-02-2006, 03:49 PM

BCAA, specifically Leucine, has been researched and published on extensively and IN HUMANS there is a significant increase in muscle protein synthesis post consumption. Very few supplements out there have clinical data that conclusively shows such an effect... IMO BCAA should be a priority in every lifters supplementation, not an afterthought.

I take Excell pre- and post-workout. During workout I consume whey, which contains a fair amount of BCAA on its own. During cardio I drink Excell instead of water.

**skelooth** · 07-02-2006, 03:53 PM

okay so how do you dose it?

One scoop pre, and one scoop post? The only reason I'm even considering is because Crowler's prices are so good. He makes ON whey look pricey....

**madman911** · 07-02-2006, 04:33 PM

I use 4 rounded scoops both pre and post. Many people only use it during their workout and the proper dosage for intra-workout consumption is 0.17 g per lb of bodyweight. I use about the same dosage, but I split it between my two servings. A rounded scoop is around 4 grams when weighed out.

**skelooth** · 07-02-2006, 04:42 PM

.... isn't that expensive though?

**madman911** · 07-02-2006, 06:05 PM

It is not cheap, that's for sure. I guess a kg lasts me around a month.

Another option that is cheaper is to buy bulk BCAA powder and either get used to forcing it down (tastes quite nasty, but you can mix it with some crystal light to make it tolerable; its also a bitch to get it to dissolve) or you can cap it yourself and just pop the pills pre and post workout. A capping apparatus and empty caps are pretty cheap. I cap my own Cissus, CEE, and I used to cap BCAA.

DJohnson · 07-02-2006, 09:02 PM

I meant like, replace 120kcal of whey before your workout with 60kcal of BCAA before your workout and 60kcal of BCAA during your workout.

CROWLER · 07-02-2006, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJohnson

I meant like, replace 120kcal of whey before your workout with 60kcal of BCAA before your workout and 60kcal of BCAA during your workout.

EXACTLY.

GREAT info. I keep forgetting to bring this point up.

This is what really brings down the price of using EXCELL. You really do not need as much protein powder so perhaps you use 1 kg in a month but you use 2 pounds less protein powder so the EXCELL ends up costing approximately $30 for the month.

CROWLER

**madman911** · 07-02-2006, 09:54 PM

The clinical trials I've seen have used a protocol where the BCAA was administered post-workout. Based on this fact, I would say that post-workout is the most criticial time at which to consume BCAA along with another source of whole protein and a carb. I can point you to a really good study you can download for free:

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...ull/288/4/E645

Leucine is the critical BCAA for initiating muscle protein synthesis. The fact that leucine is only a percentage of the contents of Excell means you have to take more of it than if it were pure leucine. With pure leucine, you could get good results taking 0.10 g/kg of bodyweight, maybe even less.

Hybrid · 07-05-2006, 10:22 PM

You can't just take BCAAs though, as all aminos must be available in order for protein synthesis to take place (from what I've read...)

**madman911** · 07-06-2006, 10:47 PM

As I said in my post... it is best to take BCAA post workout with a carb and whole protein source. However, you will still induce a protein synthesis increase if you only ingest BCAA as long as you are not in a state of negative nitrogen balance; with the amount of protein the average bodybuilder eats, this shouldn't be an issue. If post-workout you were to only take BCAA and forego a whole protein, there is still a benefit as long as high amounts of protein have been ingested recently... but I wouldn't consider that approach to be optimal. I like to take BCAA alone pre-workout to allow rapid absorption, as having the BCAA in the bloodstream decreases the rate of oxidation of BCAA in muscle tissue, which is a normal physiological response to resistance training occuring through increased branched-chain alpha-keto acid dehydrogenase (BCKDH) activity.

07-02-2006, 02:01 AM	#1
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,205 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	Really easy Question about Excell Do I take the Excell postworkout INSTEAD of taking whey protein? Bonus question, do you think it'd be okay if I lived off of the protein cookie mix? __________________ R I P

07-02-2006, 03:13 AM	#2
DJohnson IMPC Contestant Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 1,088 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 50	If anything subtract EXCELL from your preworkout and consume before and during your workout. This way you get the most out the increased stamina and reduced muscle soreness. And yes, living off the cookie mix would rule. __________________ Age: 21 Height: 5'10.5" Mar, 2001: 135lbs @ ~14% Nov, 2004: 245lbs @ ~40% Feb, 2006: 188lbs @ 20.1% - Hydrostatic Tested Dec, 2006: 168lbs @ 5.5% - 7 Point Caliper Tested BULKING FOR A LONG TIME NOW Long Term Goal: Over 200lbs @ 8%

07-02-2006, 03:54 AM	#4
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,205 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	I think he meant postworkout I don't know, BCAAs confuse me, and I wonder if they are worth the extra money..... as a "weekend bodybuilder" i can't help but see all the money I've thrown away on things that just did not deliver bang for the buck. Cookie mix... now THAT is something worth the money. 3 cookies and a class of full fat milk sounds like a balanced meal to me __________________ R I P

07-02-2006, 03:58 AM	#5
Brent Pro Stature Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: ND Posts: 367 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	You have no idea what it is like to throw away money on BCAAs. No idea at all. __________________ Brent@AnabolicX.com NEW! Anabolic Xtreme Forum!

07-02-2006, 03:49 PM	#6
madman911 Metamorphosizing Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Area Posts: 1,552 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 62	BCAA, specifically Leucine, has been researched and published on extensively and IN HUMANS there is a significant increase in muscle protein synthesis post consumption. Very few supplements out there have clinical data that conclusively shows such an effect... IMO BCAA should be a priority in every lifters supplementation, not an afterthought. I take Excell pre- and post-workout. During workout I consume whey, which contains a fair amount of BCAA on its own. During cardio I drink Excell instead of water. __________________ Millennium Sport Technologies Sponsored Athlete http://www.millenniumsport.net IMPC 2006 Novice Division Champ IMPC 2007 Open Division Champ Never underestimate the power of the bandana.

07-02-2006, 03:53 PM	#7
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,205 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	okay so how do you dose it? One scoop pre, and one scoop post? The only reason I'm even considering is because Crowler's prices are so good. He makes ON whey look pricey.... __________________ R I P

07-02-2006, 04:33 PM	#8
madman911 Metamorphosizing Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Area Posts: 1,552 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 62	I use 4 rounded scoops both pre and post. Many people only use it during their workout and the proper dosage for intra-workout consumption is 0.17 g per lb of bodyweight. I use about the same dosage, but I split it between my two servings. A rounded scoop is around 4 grams when weighed out. __________________ Millennium Sport Technologies Sponsored Athlete http://www.millenniumsport.net IMPC 2006 Novice Division Champ IMPC 2007 Open Division Champ Never underestimate the power of the bandana.

07-02-2006, 04:42 PM	#9
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,205 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	.... isn't that expensive though? __________________ R I P

07-02-2006, 06:05 PM	#10
madman911 Metamorphosizing Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Area Posts: 1,552 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 62	It is not cheap, that's for sure. I guess a kg lasts me around a month. Another option that is cheaper is to buy bulk BCAA powder and either get used to forcing it down (tastes quite nasty, but you can mix it with some crystal light to make it tolerable; its also a bitch to get it to dissolve) or you can cap it yourself and just pop the pills pre and post workout. A capping apparatus and empty caps are pretty cheap. I cap my own Cissus, CEE, and I used to cap BCAA. __________________ Millennium Sport Technologies Sponsored Athlete http://www.millenniumsport.net IMPC 2006 Novice Division Champ IMPC 2007 Open Division Champ Never underestimate the power of the bandana.

07-02-2006, 09:02 PM	#11
DJohnson IMPC Contestant Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 1,088 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 50	I meant like, replace 120kcal of whey before your workout with 60kcal of BCAA before your workout and 60kcal of BCAA during your workout. __________________ Age: 21 Height: 5'10.5" Mar, 2001: 135lbs @ ~14% Nov, 2004: 245lbs @ ~40% Feb, 2006: 188lbs @ 20.1% - Hydrostatic Tested Dec, 2006: 168lbs @ 5.5% - 7 Point Caliper Tested BULKING FOR A LONG TIME NOW Long Term Goal: Over 200lbs @ 8%

07-02-2006, 09:54 PM	#13
madman911 Metamorphosizing Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Area Posts: 1,552 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 62	The clinical trials I've seen have used a protocol where the BCAA was administered post-workout. Based on this fact, I would say that post-workout is the most criticial time at which to consume BCAA along with another source of whole protein and a carb. I can point you to a really good study you can download for free: http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...ull/288/4/E645 Leucine is the critical BCAA for initiating muscle protein synthesis. The fact that leucine is only a percentage of the contents of Excell means you have to take more of it than if it were pure leucine. With pure leucine, you could get good results taking 0.10 g/kg of bodyweight, maybe even less. __________________ Millennium Sport Technologies Sponsored Athlete http://www.millenniumsport.net IMPC 2006 Novice Division Champ IMPC 2007 Open Division Champ Never underestimate the power of the bandana.

07-05-2006, 10:22 PM	#14
Hybrid IMPC Contestant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gibsonia PA Posts: 824 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 14	You can't just take BCAAs though, as all aminos must be available in order for protein synthesis to take place (from what I've read...) __________________ If you even dream about beating me you'd better wake up and apologize - Muhammad Ali

07-06-2006, 10:47 PM	#15
madman911 Metamorphosizing Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Area Posts: 1,552 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 62	As I said in my post... it is best to take BCAA post workout with a carb and whole protein source. However, you will still induce a protein synthesis increase if you only ingest BCAA as long as you are not in a state of negative nitrogen balance; with the amount of protein the average bodybuilder eats, this shouldn't be an issue. If post-workout you were to only take BCAA and forego a whole protein, there is still a benefit as long as high amounts of protein have been ingested recently... but I wouldn't consider that approach to be optimal. I like to take BCAA alone pre-workout to allow rapid absorption, as having the BCAA in the bloodstream decreases the rate of oxidation of BCAA in muscle tissue, which is a normal physiological response to resistance training occuring through increased branched-chain alpha-keto acid dehydrogenase (BCKDH) activity. __________________ Millennium Sport Technologies Sponsored Athlete http://www.millenniumsport.net IMPC 2006 Novice Division Champ IMPC 2007 Open Division Champ Never underestimate the power of the bandana.

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