Your thoughts on "Frankie NY's Mass Building Program"

Frank_the_tank · 05-03-2006, 11:01 PM

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m_8817/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm
(Note: I did not have anything to do with the origin of this training program)

I'm currently thinking about using a push/pull/leg split while I'm at Penn State for the summer semester. I've been looking around and found this one. What do you think about it?

Quote:

NOTICE: THIS ROUTINE ASSUMES AT LEAST 6 MONTHS OF BREAK IN TRAINING FOR BEGINNERS.

THIS ROUTINE IS INTENDED FOR THE NATURAL TRAINER ONLY

Several of you have asked me for a good mass building program, so here it is. I've used this routine with many natural bodybuilders as well as professional football players looking to add some bulk in the offseason.

How many days a week? I've seen the best results with natural bodybuilders in a bulking phase on 3 days a week, training each exercise once a week. I know almost every program in the magazines you guys read will say 4 days a week, training each muscle twice a week, but my experience with hundreds of guys is that guys that train 4 days a week never make the same gains as the ones that train 3 days a week. If you train a muscle hard enough, you just can't recover in less than 6-7 days. Just because the soreness is gone doesn't mean that the muscle is recovered. 4 and 5 day splits are fine for cutting phases but not for bulking.

How to split things up? Push, pull, and legs seems to be the best split for most guys. Working shoulders with legs doesn't yield good growth in the shoulders because they end up overtrained. On push shoulders get hammered, on pull shoulders get hammered, and even working legs shoulders get hit.

Sets and reps? Like I said before, if you want to gain mass you need to stay around 5-6 reps. 4x6 or 5x5 are both good combinations. In my experience the guys that make better gains on 8-12 reps are advanced bodybuilders or are on drugs. I don't care if you feel a pump or a burn or whatever. That has nothing to do with size or strength, only momentarily pumping blood into a muscle.

Increasing your weights? You need to add weights to the bar every workout if you can. Going up in 2 � or 5 pound increments is great. You won't be able to add more weight each week, but that needs to be your mentality. Don't think about anything else but adding weight.

How long to stay on a routine? My experience is that around 8-12 weeks is best. Some guys say that after 6-8 weeks they've hit a plateau and need to change their routine. That's hogwash. Most of the time they've hit a plateau because they're not training hard enough or because they've added in more exercises than what's in my program and hinder their recovery.

DAY 1 � PULL

Deadlifts or Power Cleans
Barbell Rows, Dumbbell Rows, or Wide Grip Chins
Barbell Curls, Close Grip Underhand Chins, or Hammer Curls

DAY 2 � PUSH

Incline or Flat Barbell or Dumbbell Bench Press
Barbell or Dumbbell Shoulder Presses
Tricep Dips or Close Grip Bench Press

DAY 3 � LEGS

Front or Back Squats
Barbell or Dumbbell Stiff Leg Deadlifts
Calf Raises (3x12) - only if a seriously lagging bodypart
Weighted Crunches or Weighted Hanging Leg Raises (3x12)

**bubba g** · 05-05-2006, 10:34 AM

I personaly see better results with more than a 3 day routing.. I often train 6 days a week, with short intense sessions, I find that is what works best for me... but everyone is different..

I think people doing 3 days routines will definatly add more weight than someone on a 4 5 or 6 day bulking routine, I am just not sure of the quality of the gain... fat vs. lean mass wise...

My advice would be to try the routine, and see if it works well for you.. if not try something else... You should know within a month if it is working for you...

Frank_the_tank · 05-05-2006, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba g

I think people doing 3 days routines will definatly add more weight than someone on a 4 5 or 6 day bulking routine, I am just not sure of the quality of the gain... fat vs. lean mass wise...

Can you elaborate a little on this??

**BobThePotato** · 06-19-2006, 05:38 PM

Personally I would not be able to do deads and squats in the same day, and it gives the option of deads earlier in the week as well.. which IMO is overkill, but otherwise it looks like a decent split. The only way to see if its good is to try it out yourself however...

Frank_the_tank · 06-19-2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobThePotato

Personally I would not be able to do deads and squats in the same day, and it gives the option of deads earlier in the week as well.. which IMO is overkill, but otherwise it looks like a decent split. The only way to see if its good is to try it out yourself however...

Deads and squats are 4 days apart for me. Deads are on Monday and Squats are Friday.

How should I be doing cardio? I was thinking 45minutes medium intensity (about 850kcals/hr) on off days. Is rowing going to destroy leg recovery?

**BobThePotato** · 06-19-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank_the_tank

Deads and squats are 4 days apart for me. Deads are on Monday and Squats are Friday.

How should I be doing cardio? I was thinking 45minutes medium intensity (about 850kcals/hr) on off days. Is rowing going to destroy leg recovery?

I wouldnt think that it would interfere to much. Try it out and if it does then just cut back a bit.

**DRACOMACHINE** · 10-31-2006, 10:54 PM

Welcome

Frank_the_tank · 11-01-2006, 12:24 AM

Welcome what?? Why do you keep making useless posts in every thread?

**romanaz** · 11-01-2006, 12:28 AM

i do squatsthe day after deads... i get no soreness in my hams from deadlift... lol

Frank_the_tank · 11-01-2006, 12:34 AM

Nice. I've been using this program for a while. Its decent but I want to switch to something where I squat, dead and bench more.

**romanaz** · 11-01-2006, 12:37 AM

make your own routine... like me !

I do push/pull/legs then repeat, sundays the day off and then repeat. 2 working sets per bodypart, 1 heavy, 1 high reps and DC stretching. its fun

Frank_the_tank · 11-01-2006, 12:50 AM

I'd rather not make my own routine. There are people out there like Mark Rippetoe and Charles Poliquin that know a lot more than I do.

**romanaz** · 11-01-2006, 12:56 AM

you can take basic ideas and apply them to what you know works for you. I know, for example that I hate doing all high rep workouts. It depresses me. I know I NEED high rep sets though, so I include them after my heavy low rep ones. Just b/c some dude says it works, doesnt mean it will work for you.

strester · 11-01-2006, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank_the_tank

I'd rather not make my own routine. There are people out there like Mark Rippetoe and Charles Poliquin that know a lot more than I do.

maybe take a look at the workout I had from my green mag log in my sig ... it was a 5-day split, so don't know if recovery is a problem, but this was a good program I saw some good gains from ... only switched up to my current routine because I needed more cardio

either way, good luck with the next routine you decide on

Frank_the_tank · 11-02-2006, 02:18 AM

I liked this split a lot for strength. It finally got my squat to 405.

**DJSTARER** · 11-02-2006, 03:59 AM

conjugate method

~log onto your angel account
~search for the powerlifting club
~the password is PSULIFTING (all in caps)
~come to practices
~compete with us

you won't have to watch grad students and pussies do quarter squats and upright rows at the white building anymore. we have our own club hours at east areas gym with the hockey and rugby team.

06-19-2006, 05:38 PM	#4
BobThePotato Nublarsaurusrex Join Date: May 2005 Location: Calgary//Alberta Posts: 513 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 21	Personally I would not be able to do deads and squats in the same day, and it gives the option of deads earlier in the week as well.. which IMO is overkill, but otherwise it looks like a decent split. The only way to see if its good is to try it out yourself however... __________________ "Geadelt ist wer Schmerzen kennt vom Feuer das in Lust verbrennt."

10-31-2006, 10:54 PM	#7
DRACOMACHINE Iron Mass VIP Join Date: May 2005 Location: PALM COAST Posts: 111 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 27	Welcome __________________ Creator of Methyl 1-ESTRO For the best lactating pumps you'll ever experience!

11-02-2006, 03:59 AM	#16
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,170 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 118	conjugate method ~log onto your angel account ~search for the powerlifting club ~the password is PSULIFTING (all in caps) ~come to practices ~compete with us you won't have to watch grad students and pussies do quarter squats and upright rows at the white building anymore. we have our own club hours at east areas gym with the hockey and rugby team. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

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05-05-2006, 10:34 AM	#2
bubba g Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2,949 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 177	I personaly see better results with more than a 3 day routing.. I often train 6 days a week, with short intense sessions, I find that is what works best for me... but everyone is different.. I think people doing 3 days routines will definatly add more weight than someone on a 4 5 or 6 day bulking routine, I am just not sure of the quality of the gain... fat vs. lean mass wise... My advice would be to try the routine, and see if it works well for you.. if not try something else... You should know within a month if it is working for you...

11-01-2006, 12:24 AM	#8
Frank_the_tank Pro Stature Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 396 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	Welcome what?? Why do you keep making useless posts in every thread?

11-01-2006, 12:34 AM	#10
Frank_the_tank Pro Stature Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 396 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	Nice. I've been using this program for a while. Its decent but I want to switch to something where I squat, dead and bench more.

11-01-2006, 12:50 AM	#12
Frank_the_tank Pro Stature Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 396 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	I'd rather not make my own routine. There are people out there like Mark Rippetoe and Charles Poliquin that know a lot more than I do.

11-02-2006, 02:18 AM	#15
Frank_the_tank Pro Stature Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 396 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	I liked this split a lot for strength. It finally got my squat to 405.