What program do you think I should follow?

Hybrid · 08-04-2006, 02:41 PM

I've asked the knowledgeable members of Ironmass.com what routine they think would be best for me! I don't know that much about training (well, I know some, but not nearly as much as you guys) just to go in there, lift heavier and heavier with more volume each week, then deload. So if you guys could help me find a good routine, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Here's some information about me.

Age: 17
Height: 5'10
Weight: 173 (morning)
BF%: 10ish (six pack in morning)
Experince: 1 - 1.5 years of serious lifting and dieting

Prior programs: Basic Push/Pull split, spytech's HSHT

Programs I've conisdered: WS4SB, Ripptoes, Bill Stars 5x5, Squats and Milk.

I think I respond best to higher volume, higher intensity lifting. Or at least, that's what I like doing and have been doing with moderate success.

I have about 2 months of no swimming coming up, so I'd like to bulk hard. Any and all suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks!

**Jayhawkk** · 08-04-2006, 02:54 PM

DC and Westside seem to be the two flavors of the month right now.

**powerman2000** · 08-04-2006, 03:43 PM

Why not Bill Starr's 5x5 for beginners and intermediates?

**Peaked_18** · 08-04-2006, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

DC and Westside seem to be the two flavors of the month right now.

Not advanced enough. And it's not Westside either, it's conjugated periodization. The only way it is Westside is if you train at WSB.

Hybrid · 08-04-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

Why not Bill Starr's 5x5 for beginners and intermediates?

It's the program I'm probably leaning more towards. Well, Squats and Milk looks pretty tempting too.... I'm just not sure... Lots of people have run through 5x5 and really liked it. I'm guessing the advanced version is for people who have been lifting for 3 years +?

**Jayhawkk** · 08-04-2006, 04:34 PM

And the only way it's DC is if DC himself trains you or the only way it's...Whatever. I call a duck a duck.

I'm curious Peaked..Would you mind posting some various pics of yourself and explaining to me what you used to get the results?

0311 · 08-04-2006, 05:38 PM

My opinion is why would anyone 'newer' even want to do DC Training when they certainly don't NEED to! RP, 20 reppers, fascia stretches are great, but not necessary for someone to gain with. Why bother?

I think anyone who just starts lifting obviously needs to build a foundation. Nothing extravagant or conjugate

for that matter.

I agree with Powerman about the 5x5. I'd recommend either Rippetoe's starting strength OR single factor 5x5. I've seen TONS of beginners do both these programs and had fantastic results..

Quote:

Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength Routine:

*note the dip/chin isnt in the original program

Here is a routine from Mark Rippetoe’s book called “Starting Strength”. You can buy the book at www.startingstrength.com. It includes endless useful info that all beginners should learn. But as for the program he suggests, his clients that he gives it to on AVERAGE gain 30-40 pounds in about 6 months or so which is amazing gains.

The program is as follows:

You alternate Workout A and Workout B every other day, 3 times a week. So you could either do Mon, Wed, Fri or Tues, Thurs. and Sat. Depending on what works best for you.

Example:

Week 1:

Monday - Workout A
Wednesday -Workout B
Friday - Workout A

Week 2:

Monday - Workout B
Wednesday - Workout A
Friday - Workout B

Etc.

For the actual workouts read below:

Note: This doesn’t include warm-up sets

**Means this is OPTIONAL**

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift
**2x8 Dips (if you cant do these or no assist machine then do Decline Dumbbell Bench Press with your hands Facing each other)

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Pendlay or Bent Rows (or power cleans)
**2x8 Chin-ups (recommended mainly if doing the cleans)

Assistance work:

Most people cant get it through there head that compound lifts also work your arms Plenty and always Insist on direct arm work. As quoted by Madcow2, “Don't **** with this. Every bodybuilder seems to have Attention Deficit Disorder and an overwhelming desire to customize everything.” If you are one of these people note that you have the option of doing the dips and chins which give PLENTY of arm work. Abdominal work is fine to do also if needed.

I recommend weighted decline sit-ups and/or Hanging Leg Raises at 2x8-10.

Weight:

As for the weight, make sure that you use the SAME weight throughout the sets. For example if I do the first set if Squats with 200lbs then I do the other 2 sets of squats with 200lbs.

Every week make it a goal to increase each of your lifts by 2.5%. Meaning if I lifted 100lbs for my Bench Week 1 then Week 2 I would try for 102.5lbs. If I did 200lb Squats Week 1 I would try for 205lbs in Week 2. Sometimes you will be able to do more but don’t mess with your form just to lift more.

Warm-up Sets:

Before all your working sets it is best to do a few warm-up sets. Specifically for your first lift. You don’t have to do the whole thing for the other lifts but definitely the first.

What you do is you ramp your weight up to your working sets.

For example:

2x5xbar (sets x reps x weight)
1x5x85
1x3x125
1x2x155

And the working set weight would be 175.

If you are lifting your working sets under 150 I would cut out the 3rd warmup set of 1x5 because it wont be needed.

The Lifts:

Barbell Squat: These should be full range Olympic style squats. Use the full range of your body - that means as low as you can go which for almost everyone is past parallel. If the top of your thighs aren't at least parallel it's for sh!t. If you think this is bad for your knees going low, you and whoever told you that are relying on an old wives tale. Anyone who knows the human body will tell you that below parallel is MUCH safer on the knees whereas parallel and above put all the sheer right on them and doesn’t allow proper transfer of the load to the rest of your body (this is how your body was designed).

Rest a barbell on the upper portion of your back, not your neck. Firmly grip the bar with your hands almost twice your shoulder width apart. Position your feet about shoulder width apart and your toes should be pointing just a little outward with your knees in the same direction. Keep your back as straight as possible and your chin up, bend your knees and slowly lower your hips straight down until your THIGHS ARE AT LEAST PARALLEL TO THE FLOOR. Once you reach the bottom position, press the weight up back to the starting position.

To be honest ATG (Ass to the Grass) squats work the best IMO. What you do is you go ALL the way down until your hamstrings touch your calves and keep the same Olympic squat form.

Barbell Deadlift: Each rep is deweighted fully on the floor. No touch and go. This is called the 'dead'lift because the weight is 'dead' on the ground. You can touch and go warm ups but that's it.

Quote:

Single Factor 5x5

Monday:

A2G Squat: 5 x 5 [Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)]
Flat Bench: 5 x 5 [Same]
Barbell Row: 5 x 5 [Same]
Assistance: 2 sets of weighted hypers and 4 sets of weighted sit-ups

Wednesday:

A2G Squat: 4 x 5 [First 3 sets are the same as Monday, the 4th set is repeating the 3rd set again]
Standing OHP: 4 x 5 [Ramping weight to top set of 5]
Deadlift: 4 x 5 [Ramping weight to top set of 5]
Assistance: 3 sets of sit-ups

Friday:

A2G Squat: 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 [First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8]
Flat Bench: 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 [Same]
Barbell Row: 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 [Same]
Assistance: 3 sets of weighted dips (5-8 reps), 3 sets of barbell curls and 3 sets of triceps extensions (8 reps)

**Jayhawkk** · 08-04-2006, 06:15 PM

Why would anyone? Hell if I know which is why I keyed it with "flavor of the month".

It's kinda hard to give fool proof advice with that little advice. Most personal trainers I know require a lot of input before suggesting a workout. I personally think that it will take him researching and researching and trying different routines to get the best results barring a PT.

0311 · 08-04-2006, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

Why would anyone? Hell if I know which is why I keyed it with "flavor of the month".

It's kinda hard to give fool proof advice with that little advice. Most personal trainers I know require a lot of input before suggesting a workout. I personally think that it will take him researching and researching and trying different routines to get the best results barring a PT.

I see what you're trying to say and I agree that researching is the best way to learn what works. I still remember the 4 page questionare I filled out with Matt Reynolds so I agree.

However, the reason why people say DC and stuff like Dual Factor training are advanced is because after so many years, it gets harder and harder to maintain the same results people have had in the earlier years of training. Anyone with less than 2-3 years of experience will grow exceptionally well with the simplest of methods albiet 3 x 10, 3 x 5, compounds only, ect. In my opinion, if someone can grow using 3 sets of 10 per bodypart, I don't understand why they would rather do a rest/pause set of 15 RP (8,4,3) + a static hold and a one minute fascia stretch to boot?? I hope the general concensus for anyone new to lifting is that any training method (including the simplest of designs) will work great provided diet is good to go.

**Jayhawkk** · 08-04-2006, 08:10 PM

Wasn't directed at you at all 0311 so I apologise for not making the post clearer.

**Peaked_18** · 08-04-2006, 11:44 PM

You need to read up on Louie Simmons before you start speaking.

**Jayhawkk** · 08-05-2006, 05:20 AM

So you're basically just vomiting up something you've read.

You're way too arrogant and obnoxious of a person to not be throwing up pictures at every chance you get ,since you like to do it with everything else. Since I have seen no pictures from you then i'll go with the fact that you're just an angry little kid who can make threads on various boards about random crap.

Get up, get out and go lift some damn weights, kid.

**DarkFalcon** · 08-05-2006, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

So you're basically just vomiting up something you've read.

You're way too arrogant and obnoxious of a person to not be throwing up pictures at every chance you get ,since you like to do it with everything else. Since I have seen no pictures from you then i'll go with the fact that you're just an angry little kid who can make threads on various boards about random crap.

Get up, get out and go lift some damn weights, kid.

Let's keep the personal attacks to a min please. Argue tech all you want but let's leave the petty stuff out, thanks.

**Jayhawkk** · 08-05-2006, 06:09 AM

The attacks came after every thread i've posted in he comes in and basically spews information and leaves. i.e., his last post.

I will never say my advice/information is dead on and will usually add that it's from my personal experience vs. some applied science. However, don't come in and shoot out a one liner and leave.

Edit: hell look at any post of his in this thread. Everyone else is offering help whether it's for him or not. They are still trying to help. He dismisses mine(which is fine) but offers no other alternative.

**DarkFalcon** · 08-05-2006, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

The attacks came after every thread i've posted in he comes in and basically spews information and leaves. i.e., his last post.

I will never say my advice/information is dead on and will usually add that it's from my personal experience vs. some applied science. However, don't come in and shoot out a one liner and leave.

Edit: hell look at any post of his in this thread. Everyone else is offering help whether it's for him or not. They are still trying to help. He dismisses mine(which is fine) but offers no other alternative.

Well then I guess you'll have to settle with looking like a more helpful informed poster.

**Jayhawkk** · 08-05-2006, 06:25 AM

I thought that was a given with my suave personality and handsome good looks. I mean, you did PM me for sexual favors and advice on proper oiling techniques.

08-04-2006, 02:41 PM	#1
Hybrid IMPC Contestant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gibsonia PA Posts: 824 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 13	What program do you think I should follow? I've asked the knowledgeable members of Ironmass.com what routine they think would be best for me! I don't know that much about training (well, I know some, but not nearly as much as you guys) just to go in there, lift heavier and heavier with more volume each week, then deload. So if you guys could help me find a good routine, I'd greatly appreciate it. Here's some information about me. Age: 17 Height: 5'10 Weight: 173 (morning) BF%: 10ish (six pack in morning) Experince: 1 - 1.5 years of serious lifting and dieting Prior programs: Basic Push/Pull split, spytech's HSHT Programs I've conisdered: WS4SB, Ripptoes, Bill Stars 5x5, Squats and Milk. I think I respond best to higher volume, higher intensity lifting. Or at least, that's what I like doing and have been doing with moderate success. I have about 2 months of no swimming coming up, so I'd like to bulk hard. Any and all suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks! __________________ If you even dream about beating me you'd better wake up and apologize - Muhammad Ali

08-04-2006, 02:54 PM	#2
Jayhawkk Nutraplanet Rep Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,106 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 44	DC and Westside seem to be the two flavors of the month right now. __________________ Nutraplanet.com for all your supplement needs! ------------------------------ Hangin's too good for 'em! BURNIN'S too good for 'em! They should be ripped into itsy-bitsy little pieces and BURIED ALIVE!

08-04-2006, 03:43 PM	#3
powerman2000 The Old Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,136 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 200	Why not Bill Starr's 5x5 for beginners and intermediates? __________________ Don't forget to periodize Best BP 507 lbs competitive Best Squat 705 lbs competitive Best DL 650 lbs competitive Guns don't kill people, men who come home early do. My workout log http://www.ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6247

08-04-2006, 04:34 PM	#6
Jayhawkk Nutraplanet Rep Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,106 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 44	And the only way it's DC is if DC himself trains you or the only way it's...Whatever. I call a duck a duck. I'm curious Peaked..Would you mind posting some various pics of yourself and explaining to me what you used to get the results? __________________ Nutraplanet.com for all your supplement needs! ------------------------------ Hangin's too good for 'em! BURNIN'S too good for 'em! They should be ripped into itsy-bitsy little pieces and BURIED ALIVE!

08-04-2006, 06:15 PM	#8
Jayhawkk Nutraplanet Rep Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,106 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 44	Why would anyone? Hell if I know which is why I keyed it with "flavor of the month". It's kinda hard to give fool proof advice with that little advice. Most personal trainers I know require a lot of input before suggesting a workout. I personally think that it will take him researching and researching and trying different routines to get the best results barring a PT. __________________ Nutraplanet.com for all your supplement needs! ------------------------------ Hangin's too good for 'em! BURNIN'S too good for 'em! They should be ripped into itsy-bitsy little pieces and BURIED ALIVE!

08-04-2006, 08:10 PM	#10
Jayhawkk Nutraplanet Rep Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,106 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 44	Wasn't directed at you at all 0311 so I apologise for not making the post clearer. __________________ Nutraplanet.com for all your supplement needs! ------------------------------ Hangin's too good for 'em! BURNIN'S too good for 'em! They should be ripped into itsy-bitsy little pieces and BURIED ALIVE!

08-04-2006, 11:44 PM	#11
Peaked_18 a la commode Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,247 Recipes: 2 Rep Power: 96	You need to read up on Louie Simmons before you start speaking.

08-05-2006, 05:20 AM	#12
Jayhawkk Nutraplanet Rep Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,106 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 44	So you're basically just vomiting up something you've read. You're way too arrogant and obnoxious of a person to not be throwing up pictures at every chance you get ,since you like to do it with everything else. Since I have seen no pictures from you then i'll go with the fact that you're just an angry little kid who can make threads on various boards about random crap. Get up, get out and go lift some damn weights, kid. __________________ Nutraplanet.com for all your supplement needs! ------------------------------ Hangin's too good for 'em! BURNIN'S too good for 'em! They should be ripped into itsy-bitsy little pieces and BURIED ALIVE!

08-05-2006, 06:09 AM	#14
Jayhawkk Nutraplanet Rep Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,106 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 44	The attacks came after every thread i've posted in he comes in and basically spews information and leaves. i.e., his last post. I will never say my advice/information is dead on and will usually add that it's from my personal experience vs. some applied science. However, don't come in and shoot out a one liner and leave. Edit: hell look at any post of his in this thread. Everyone else is offering help whether it's for him or not. They are still trying to help. He dismisses mine(which is fine) but offers no other alternative. __________________ Nutraplanet.com for all your supplement needs! ------------------------------ Hangin's too good for 'em! BURNIN'S too good for 'em! They should be ripped into itsy-bitsy little pieces and BURIED ALIVE!

08-05-2006, 06:25 AM	#16
Jayhawkk Nutraplanet Rep Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,106 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 44	I thought that was a given with my suave personality and handsome good looks. I mean, you did PM me for sexual favors and advice on proper oiling techniques. __________________ Nutraplanet.com for all your supplement needs! ------------------------------ Hangin's too good for 'em! BURNIN'S too good for 'em! They should be ripped into itsy-bitsy little pieces and BURIED ALIVE!

08-05-2006, 01:39 PM	#17
Hybrid IMPC Contestant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gibsonia PA Posts: 824 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 13