Volume, overtraining... independent to the person?

**skelooth** · 08-18-2006, 03:29 AM

I do a LOT of volume AND days of lifting compared to a LOT of routines I see online. I have seen guys on bb.com say they are having trouble whatever, then they post their split, it's not nearly as volumeful as mine, and everyone starts saying they are over training.

You guys remember KingOfChaos... ? His workouts were NUTS, he was a nonstop workhorse.

I keep my reps low, volume high, and I make reasonabley good progress. It's very rare that I feel like I'm over training and I typically lift 5 or 6 days a week.

Are endomorphs more inclined to high volume low rep training?

How can anyone tell anyone they are over training? It seems like there is no magic number, it really seems like it is dramatically unique to the individual.

Ihateeveryone · 08-18-2006, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

I do a LOT of volume AND days of lifting compared to a LOT of routines I see online. I have seen guys on bb.com say they are having trouble whatever, then they post their split, it's not nearly as volumeful as mine, and everyone starts saying they are over training.

You guys remember KingOfChaos... ? His workouts were NUTS, he was a nonstop workhorse.

I keep my reps low, volume high, and I make reasonabley good progress. It's very rare that I feel like I'm over training and I typically lift 5 or 6 days a week.

Are endomorphs more inclined to high volume low rep training?

How can anyone tell anyone they are over training? It seems like there is no magic number, it really seems like it is dramatically unique to the individual.

I'm an endo-mesomorph and I trained roughly 20 sets per bodypart five nights a week. Didn't have supplemental glutamine, and overtrained myself into a state of throat infection. Any other program I've ever followed has been three or four nights a week, no more than 12 sets per part. Despite the sickness, I've never gained like I did following the volume routine, and I've not lost any of my gains.

**madman911** · 08-18-2006, 01:51 PM

My opinion is that over training is not as easy to achieve as many suggest. Certainly if you're doing 20 sets per bodypart, hitting each bodypart 3X a week or if you always train to failure on every single set, you could over train. Even in these extreme situations, over training certainly is not guaranteed. In my opinion, over training is only indicated when someone suffers a consistent loss of strength. Basically, you cannot improve or even maintain your strength from session to session if you are over trained, because you are placing demands on your body that it has insufficient time to adapt to. Listen to your body and it will not be an issue. Over training is not when someone ignores their aching knees or elbow tendonitis to the point where they can barely move... that is over dumbassing.

And over training is not going to give you a throat infection.

Brent · 08-18-2006, 03:00 PM

Another thread about Skel bragging out much of a "Beast" he is.

**skelooth** · 08-18-2006, 03:32 PM

Go Team Beast Breeder!

I'm not bragging Brent, just starting conversation on the subject matter. There's guys at my gym who do even MORE volume and time in the gym than me that are in fantastic shape, but "You're over training, cut down to a 3 day split" is terribley common advice on bodybuilding forums.

I really want to argue that most guys not making gains are under trained.

A_N_91 · 08-18-2006, 04:03 PM

I used to do lots of volume but realized it doesn't work well with calisthenics :p

I used to do high volume when I was using weights before and that's what worked best for me.

wildman1717 · 08-18-2006, 07:26 PM

I think endomorphs can do the higher volume then an ectomorph can. Then again, that is my personal opinion. In regards to volume I listen to my body and take the required rest when needed. I workout 4 days a week, anymore I start to get drained. I'll also take off a week about every 8 to 12 weeks. Volume training is more of a individual thing and every person is different.

**madman911** · 08-18-2006, 08:14 PM

Not only is every person different, but different bodyparts on the same person often respond more favorably to a certain rep-range, volume, and training frequency. People often have horribly lagging bodyparts because they insist on using the same approach for all muscle groups.

**DJSTARER** · 08-19-2006, 02:09 AM

listen to your body.

I work with a BEAST who says manytimes he will train 2X per week for a couple weeks, and then 5 or 6X per week for another couple weeks. He says it has to do with Fleck's theories and it has kept him injury free for 20 years. He is also a physical therapist, professoinal masous, olympic bobsledder and ex-navy seal.... Good genetics much?

wildman1717 · 08-19-2006, 02:35 AM

Sounds interesting, where can I find info. on this Fleck's theories?

**warriors** · 08-19-2006, 05:06 AM

There is no such thing as overtraining just under eating

I think the overtraining thing now days is blown way out of proportion. HST and DC training has you train each muscle at least 2 times a week and a lot of ppl see excellent results from those programs if your diet is right. It seems like each year ppl are telling you to train less and less or else you'll overtrain. The human body is an excellent "machine" per se and it can take a lot of stress. I'm not saying you can't overtrain I just think most ppl that train a lot get mentally burned out before their muscles get burned out which can play a big role once you're not mentally there.

**skelooth** · 08-21-2006, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriors

There is no such thing as overtraining just under eating

How come whenever I say that I get flamed, but you get away scott free?

hmmm.......

**powerman2000** · 08-21-2006, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

I really want to argue that most guys not making gains are under trained.

Agreed

**krzna** · 08-21-2006, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

Agreed

WERD! ok skel...now back to those compounds and SS's
NOW :box:

BiGgYmRaT · 09-30-2006, 12:59 AM

I call overtraining UNDERRECOVERING....and its totally person to person. I think you can pretty much traing as hard as you want if you eat well above maintenance, sleep atleast 8 hours a night, and take atleast 2 days off a week. When you no longer make strength gains, muscle gains, have no motivation, always feel exhausted, you know its time for a change.

08-18-2006, 03:29 AM	#1
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,203 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	Volume, overtraining... independent to the person? I do a LOT of volume AND days of lifting compared to a LOT of routines I see online. I have seen guys on bb.com say they are having trouble whatever, then they post their split, it's not nearly as volumeful as mine, and everyone starts saying they are over training. You guys remember KingOfChaos... ? His workouts were NUTS, he was a nonstop workhorse. I keep my reps low, volume high, and I make reasonabley good progress. It's very rare that I feel like I'm over training and I typically lift 5 or 6 days a week. Are endomorphs more inclined to high volume low rep training? How can anyone tell anyone they are over training? It seems like there is no magic number, it really seems like it is dramatically unique to the individual. __________________ http://loseover100lbs.com/misc-f7.html

08-18-2006, 01:51 PM	#3
madman911 Metamorphosizing Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Area Posts: 1,534 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 61	My opinion is that over training is not as easy to achieve as many suggest. Certainly if you're doing 20 sets per bodypart, hitting each bodypart 3X a week or if you always train to failure on every single set, you could over train. Even in these extreme situations, over training certainly is not guaranteed. In my opinion, over training is only indicated when someone suffers a consistent loss of strength. Basically, you cannot improve or even maintain your strength from session to session if you are over trained, because you are placing demands on your body that it has insufficient time to adapt to. Listen to your body and it will not be an issue. Over training is not when someone ignores their aching knees or elbow tendonitis to the point where they can barely move... that is over dumbassing. And over training is not going to give you a throat infection. __________________ Millennium Sport Technologies Sponsored Athlete http://www.millenniumsport.net IMPC 2006 Novice Division Champ IMPC 2007 Open Division Champ Never underestimate the power of the bandana.

08-18-2006, 03:00 PM	#4
Brent Pro Stature Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: ND Posts: 367 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	Another thread about Skel bragging out much of a "Beast" he is. __________________ Brent@AnabolicX.com NEW! Anabolic Xtreme Forum!

08-18-2006, 03:32 PM	#5
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,203 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	Go Team Beast Breeder! I'm not bragging Brent, just starting conversation on the subject matter. There's guys at my gym who do even MORE volume and time in the gym than me that are in fantastic shape, but "You're over training, cut down to a 3 day split" is terribley common advice on bodybuilding forums. I really want to argue that most guys not making gains are under trained. __________________ http://loseover100lbs.com/misc-f7.html

08-18-2006, 08:14 PM	#8
madman911 Metamorphosizing Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Area Posts: 1,534 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 61	Not only is every person different, but different bodyparts on the same person often respond more favorably to a certain rep-range, volume, and training frequency. People often have horribly lagging bodyparts because they insist on using the same approach for all muscle groups. __________________ Millennium Sport Technologies Sponsored Athlete http://www.millenniumsport.net IMPC 2006 Novice Division Champ IMPC 2007 Open Division Champ Never underestimate the power of the bandana.

08-18-2006, 04:03 PM	#6
A_N_91 Pro Stature Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 849 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 11	I used to do lots of volume but realized it doesn't work well with calisthenics :p I used to do high volume when I was using weights before and that's what worked best for me.

08-18-2006, 07:26 PM	#7
wildman1717 Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 107 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	I think endomorphs can do the higher volume then an ectomorph can. Then again, that is my personal opinion. In regards to volume I listen to my body and take the required rest when needed. I workout 4 days a week, anymore I start to get drained. I'll also take off a week about every 8 to 12 weeks. Volume training is more of a individual thing and every person is different.

08-19-2006, 02:09 AM	#9
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,103 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 115	listen to your body. I work with a BEAST who says manytimes he will train 2X per week for a couple weeks, and then 5 or 6X per week for another couple weeks. He says it has to do with Fleck's theories and it has kept him injury free for 20 years. He is also a physical therapist, professoinal masous, olympic bobsledder and ex-navy seal.... Good genetics much? __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

08-19-2006, 02:35 AM	#10
wildman1717 Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 107 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	Sounds interesting, where can I find info. on this Fleck's theories?

08-19-2006, 05:06 AM	#11
warriors The world is yours Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,127 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 29	There is no such thing as overtraining just under eating I think the overtraining thing now days is blown way out of proportion. HST and DC training has you train each muscle at least 2 times a week and a lot of ppl see excellent results from those programs if your diet is right. It seems like each year ppl are telling you to train less and less or else you'll overtrain. The human body is an excellent "machine" per se and it can take a lot of stress. I'm not saying you can't overtrain I just think most ppl that train a lot get mentally burned out before their muscles get burned out which can play a big role once you're not mentally there. __________________ Not Around...

09-30-2006, 12:59 AM	#15
BiGgYmRaT Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: WA Posts: 115 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 7	I call overtraining UNDERRECOVERING....and its totally person to person. I think you can pretty much traing as hard as you want if you eat well above maintenance, sleep atleast 8 hours a night, and take atleast 2 days off a week. When you no longer make strength gains, muscle gains, have no motivation, always feel exhausted, you know its time for a change. __________________ Proud Member of the Quarter Ton Deadlift Club Powerbuilders dont sweat...WE BLEED! Pain is weakness leaving the body! Work Hard Play Hard! Go Heavy or Go Home!

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