should I aim to increase weight while cutting?

sharaabi · 10-20-2006, 02:23 PM

the aim here to loose fat with a good diet, cardio and a lifting program that works for you.

I was wondering.....in my case for example i can LEG PRESS 14 PLATES(7 each side) x 4 times.....75lb dumbell(each hand) x 4.

now when cutting, eating less than maintainence, doing cardio HIIT......should one aim to increase reps?? increase weight? intensity?

eventually, lets say I can do 10 reps of leg press(7 each side), should I aim to bump up the weight or focus more on the diet and cardio?

I do a full body circuit 3 times, day1- HEAVY like mentioned above, day2 8-10 reps of moderate weight and day 3 - PYRAMID 15 reps, 10 reps then 6 for each body part.

so i mix up my style 3 times a week to give the muscle the best of both fibers which is slowly working for me along with cardio.

all im trying to ask is, SHOULD I AIM TO GO UP IN WEIGHT WHILE CUTTING once i can do a certain ammount of reps??? what is the recomended rep limit where i should start to add on more weight??

**powerman2000** · 10-20-2006, 02:35 PM

You know a lot will depend on how hard you are dieting. If you are dropping a lot of carbs then you'll likely not have the needed energy to increase your work load in terms of the weight used during exercise. Then when you add cardio into the mix it becomes even more unlikely. Especially if you are just beginning to add the cardio along with starting a calorie restricted and low carb diet. I would shoot for just maintaining your current work loads and definitely don't use lighter weights on purpose.

**DJSTARER** · 10-20-2006, 03:15 PM

i like to increase reps and not weight. cycle through a range of 3-5. Like power said... gains will be minimal or non-existnant.

sharaabi · 10-20-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

You know a lot will depend on how hard you are dieting. If you are dropping a lot of carbs then you'll likely not have the needed energy to increase your work load in terms of the weight used during exercise. Then when you add cardio into the mix it becomes even more unlikely. Especially if you are just beginning to add the cardio along with starting a calorie restricted and low carb diet. I would shoot for just maintaining your current work loads and definitely don't use lighter weights on purpose.

i TRY to do a timed carb diet where i consume 200-200g of carbs daily.....40g in the morning, 50-60g pre workout and 100g post workout....sometimes i carb cycle and on days off i try to consume all my carbs before 6pm unless i have a family/social event where i eat in moderation.

so should i just aim to lift with what i can do and NOT try to increase weight?

**DJSTARER** · 10-20-2006, 04:17 PM

always TRY... but don't hurt yourself.

Also, i utilized band resistance in my last cut... and where I did... i increased strength. Other areas I became weaker...

RaSP · 10-20-2006, 04:33 PM

Last year I started carb cyling for a cut (I now use it all the time) and found it was the only time I have ever been able to increase strength significantly *while* cutting. My old cutting log is in the over 30 section if you want to check it out. So I am all for increasing weight while on a cut. I periodize my workouts as well, mixing in some high rep work with the low reps or 5x5s. I don't change my workout much when cutting or bulking, just my diet. I do gain more (of course) when on a bulk, but I really don't stop gaining strength on the cut.

I used something similar to EME's cutting stack, (Sesamin, T3, Aspirin+EphedrineHCL+Caffeine) and strict carb cycling and carb timing (heavy carbs around my workout in the morning and no carbs after 5 at night). Worked wonders for me.

As I said I now swear by carb cycling as a year 'round plan and it has helped me to get leaner gains in my bulks and continue gaining in my cuts. The only time I've lost strength in the last year was when I pulled a hamm and injured a shoulder and had to take 3 weeks off.

Hope this helps.

*R*

**bubba g** · 10-20-2006, 05:32 PM

when cutting you should aim to, but don't expect it. at some point you are likely going to lose some strength..

Carb cycling is the best way to maintain strength, and possibly gain some while cutting.

Doing slightly higher reps is a good idea, along with short 30 second rest periods, which will cause you to lower your weights used anyway..

RaSP · 10-20-2006, 05:45 PM

I should add, that if I had cut longer (like for a comp) I would have expected to start losing strength as I would have had to reduce my cals so much. My avi pic is from the end of that routine and you can see there's still some fat there.

*R*

sharaabi · 10-20-2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaSP

I should add, that if I had cut longer (like for a comp) I would have expected to start losing strength as I would have had to reduce my cals so much. My avi pic is from the end of that routine and you can see there's still some fat there.

*R*

thats like my GOAL in life to have a pic like that....im like 22% bf and cutting for like LIFE i feel.

i have been 271lb with 35% bodyfat standing at 6'00 with a 44waist.

i currently am 198lb in the morniing with 21%bodyfat with a 36inch waist with a tape measure and 34 IN CERTAIN RETAILER jeans and 36 in slacks.

im basically trying VERY hard to loose my gut. Its been 3 years since i lost all those 71lb and took me a lot of trial and error to figure out what i need todo.....now i just want these last pounds of fat to go so i can be a 34 waist ON THE TAPE and then bulk up. Like i said i feel like im cuttin for life...lol.

i have incorporated sprinting/HIIT which i enjoy these days because
1. i have a lot of stress and doing HIIT is just amazing after completing it
2. i think my aim is to bodybuild and eventually have a sprinters physique.

BiGgYmRaT · 10-23-2006, 04:46 AM

Yes, you should definately aim to increase your weights while cutting. Its the best way to make sure you dont lose muscle mass.

RaSP · 10-23-2006, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharaabi

i have incorporated sprinting/HIIT which i enjoy these days because
1. i have a lot of stress and doing HIIT is just amazing after completing it
2. i think my aim is to bodybuild and eventually have a sprinters physique.

Sounds like we have similar goals. HIIT is awesome. When I'm cutting, I do it post w/o every w/o day but leg day, and do 30-45 minutes low intensity cardio on my off days.

Looks to me like you're making good progress. The last bit of fat always seems to take the longest. Just keep it up. When I'm cutting, I get to a point when it seems like I'm not losing any more fat. Sometimes I'll do a "mini bulk" and increase calories for 2-3 weeks and then resume the cut. I may gain a pound or two back, but then when I cut again I make better progress.

*R*

sharaabi · 10-23-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaSP

Sounds like we have similar goals. HIIT is awesome. When I'm cutting, I do it post w/o every w/o day but leg day, and do 30-45 minutes low intensity cardio on my off days.

Looks to me like you're making good progress. The last bit of fat always seems to take the longest. Just keep it up. When I'm cutting, I get to a point when it seems like I'm not losing any more fat. Sometimes I'll do a "mini bulk" and increase calories for 2-3 weeks and then resume the cut. I may gain a pound or two back, but then when I cut again I make better progress.

*R*

the problem I THINK is in my rest and stress activity.

im a grad student AND work full time. I hav classes 6-9pm TUE/WED/THUR....so those days i try to fit in working out in the morning. I do a SUN/TUES/FRI split.

OFF DAYS? those are THE hardest day for me to get cardio in because of school work. With all this going on i get 5.5 to 6.5 hours rest a night....sometimes a power nap on the downtown train.....weeekends is where i catch sleep sometimes.

with all this goin on i jus try to do HIIT with my 3 days...on my off days i walk a lot in downtown and lower my carbs and avoid them after 6pm...at teh most il have 40grams of coplex carbs IF i feel too tired.

i do a full body split, sort of like HIT but SUN- HEAVY/TUES-PYRAMID and friday- high rep, like 15-20.

im at 20%bf now..... DIEGING TO GET it down before new years.

RaSP · 10-24-2006, 06:07 PM

Stress and poor rest is certainly not helping you any. Cortisol is not your friend.

What's your diet like?

*R*

sharaabi · 10-24-2006, 06:32 PM

RaSP,

here is my diet, well this is what i ATTEMPT todo but timing is always off due to meetings, school work, conference calls and sometimes company events(lame parties).

i choose one of the ff depending on the day if im lifitng or not.

breakfast lifting day: 3 dates with 8oz orange juice, protein shake with natural peanut butter blended, 2 whole wheat home made pita bread with boiled lentils, all natural cereal with splenda, a banana and protein shake....basiaclly PROTEIN + CARB

non lifing days i have something like the mentioned above but basically have MOST OF my carbs 3 hours before betime which is 8pm.

mid morning snack: cashews, an orange, protein shake with glutamine or 2 tbsp natural peanut butter on whole wheat bread

lunch: VEGGIES + MEAT

mid afternoon IF I HAVE TIME: another fruit (i have a sweet tooth)

pre workout: PROTEIN+FAT+ CARB - 80-100G COMPLEX CARBS like whole wheat pita, brown rice with chicken or tuna along with something green.

post workout: protein shake with <6g carbs

before bed~10ish - veggies and meat or like 1/4 cup brown rice

USUALLY I TRY TO DO A TIMED CARB DIET ON LIFTING DAYS and spread out 200-250g carbs on off days BEFORE 8PM if i am sprinting.

any good?

**Ikaika** · 10-24-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharaabi

RaSP,

here is my diet, well this is what i ATTEMPT todo but timing is always off due to meetings, school work, conference calls and sometimes company events(lame parties).

i choose one of the ff depending on the day if im lifitng or not.

breakfast lifting day: 3 dates with 8oz orange juice, protein shake with natural peanut butter blended, 2 whole wheat home made pita bread with boiled lentils, all natural cereal with splenda, a banana and protein shake....basiaclly PROTEIN + CARB

non lifing days i have something like the mentioned above but basically have MOST OF my carbs 3 hours before betime which is 8pm.

mid morning snack: cashews, an orange, protein shake with glutamine or 2 tbsp natural peanut butter on whole wheat bread

lunch: VEGGIES + MEAT

mid afternoon IF I HAVE TIME: another fruit (i have a sweet tooth)

pre workout: PROTEIN+FAT+ CARB - 80-100G COMPLEX CARBS like whole wheat pita, brown rice with chicken or tuna along with something green.

post workout: protein shake with <6g carbs

before bed~10ish - veggies and meat or like 1/4 cup brown rice

USUALLY I TRY TO DO A TIMED CARB DIET ON LIFTING DAYS and spread out 200-250g carbs on off days BEFORE 8PM if i am sprinting.

any good?

That looks pretty reasonable to me, without getting too anal-retentive about anything. I would, however, change your last 3 meals of the day a bit. You don't need that many carbs before your workout...drop that to like 50 grams. If you do that, you can then consume 100g of carbs immediately post-workout(for reasons why this is important, check out Powerman's post-workout nutrition stickies). Ideally, you would have another meal of protein/complex carbs about 2 hours after you get done lifting, but if this doesn't fit into your schedule you'll still be ok.

Stick with meat and veggies for your 10 pm meal, carbs so late tend not to be used for fuel and are more likely to wind up as stored fat. Make sure you're getting a good amount of protein at this meal, remember it has to tide you over till you wake up and eat breakfast.

RaSP · 10-25-2006, 05:23 PM

I agree. I only get as high as 100g pre w/o carbs on my high carb days when bulking and about 50g when cutting. (I cut about 200 calories every 14 days when cutting so that's just a rough estimate).

Post w/o carbs should be high GI. I'd move those bedtime carbs to your post w/o.

Carb cycling is really based on common sense when you think about it. It can be summarized with "Eat for what you did and have to do." Following that line of thought you want to eat lots Protein, Complex carbs and some fat about an hour before a big workout and get some high GI carbs and protein (with little or no fat) immediately post w/o. If you sit at a desk for the rest of the day, eat accordingly. On your off days simply skip the pre/post w/o meals entirely or keep them as low fat low carb meals (I replace them both with a single protein shake on my off days).

A lot of this is from the following link:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=811783

Hope this helps.

*R*

10-20-2006, 02:23 PM	#1
sharaabi New Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 22 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	should I aim to increase weight while cutting? the aim here to loose fat with a good diet, cardio and a lifting program that works for you. I was wondering.....in my case for example i can LEG PRESS 14 PLATES(7 each side) x 4 times.....75lb dumbell(each hand) x 4. now when cutting, eating less than maintainence, doing cardio HIIT......should one aim to increase reps?? increase weight? intensity? eventually, lets say I can do 10 reps of leg press(7 each side), should I aim to bump up the weight or focus more on the diet and cardio? I do a full body circuit 3 times, day1- HEAVY like mentioned above, day2 8-10 reps of moderate weight and day 3 - PYRAMID 15 reps, 10 reps then 6 for each body part. so i mix up my style 3 times a week to give the muscle the best of both fibers which is slowly working for me along with cardio. all im trying to ask is, SHOULD I AIM TO GO UP IN WEIGHT WHILE CUTTING once i can do a certain ammount of reps??? what is the recomended rep limit where i should start to add on more weight??

10-20-2006, 02:35 PM	#2
powerman2000 The Old Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,188 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 202	You know a lot will depend on how hard you are dieting. If you are dropping a lot of carbs then you'll likely not have the needed energy to increase your work load in terms of the weight used during exercise. Then when you add cardio into the mix it becomes even more unlikely. Especially if you are just beginning to add the cardio along with starting a calorie restricted and low carb diet. I would shoot for just maintaining your current work loads and definitely don't use lighter weights on purpose. __________________ Don't forget to periodize Best BP 507 lbs competitive Best Squat 705 lbs competitive Best DL 650 lbs competitive Guns don't kill people, men who come home early do. My workout log http://www.ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6247

10-20-2006, 03:15 PM	#3
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,104 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 115	i like to increase reps and not weight. cycle through a range of 3-5. Like power said... gains will be minimal or non-existnant. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

10-20-2006, 04:17 PM	#5
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,104 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 115	always TRY... but don't hurt yourself. Also, i utilized band resistance in my last cut... and where I did... i increased strength. Other areas I became weaker... __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

10-20-2006, 04:33 PM	#6
RaSP Pro Stature Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 66.239.233.115:8080 Posts: 926 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 30	Last year I started carb cyling for a cut (I now use it all the time) and found it was the only time I have ever been able to increase strength significantly while cutting. My old cutting log is in the over 30 section if you want to check it out. So I am all for increasing weight while on a cut. I periodize my workouts as well, mixing in some high rep work with the low reps or 5x5s. I don't change my workout much when cutting or bulking, just my diet. I do gain more (of course) when on a bulk, but I really don't stop gaining strength on the cut. I used something similar to EME's cutting stack, (Sesamin, T3, Aspirin+EphedrineHCL+Caffeine) and strict carb cycling and carb timing (heavy carbs around my workout in the morning and no carbs after 5 at night). Worked wonders for me. As I said I now swear by carb cycling as a year 'round plan and it has helped me to get leaner gains in my bulks and continue gaining in my cuts. The only time I've lost strength in the last year was when I pulled a hamm and injured a shoulder and had to take 3 weeks off. Hope this helps. R __________________ ~~~Dumb Animal~~~ I am Thee oMega.. GameDayDog is Thee Alpha.. But GameDayDog Hasn't been here for ever... 6'4" @ 201. Finally got back to 500lb deadlift.

10-20-2006, 05:32 PM	#7
bubba g Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2,949 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 177	when cutting you should aim to, but don't expect it. at some point you are likely going to lose some strength.. Carb cycling is the best way to maintain strength, and possibly gain some while cutting. Doing slightly higher reps is a good idea, along with short 30 second rest periods, which will cause you to lower your weights used anyway..

10-20-2006, 05:45 PM	#8
RaSP Pro Stature Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 66.239.233.115:8080 Posts: 926 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 30	I should add, that if I had cut longer (like for a comp) I would have expected to start losing strength as I would have had to reduce my cals so much. My avi pic is from the end of that routine and you can see there's still some fat there. R __________________ ~~~Dumb Animal~~~ I am Thee oMega.. GameDayDog is Thee Alpha.. But GameDayDog Hasn't been here for ever... 6'4" @ 201. Finally got back to 500lb deadlift.

10-23-2006, 04:46 AM	#10
BiGgYmRaT Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: WA Posts: 115 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 7	Yes, you should definately aim to increase your weights while cutting. Its the best way to make sure you dont lose muscle mass. __________________ Proud Member of the Quarter Ton Deadlift Club Powerbuilders dont sweat...WE BLEED! Pain is weakness leaving the body! Work Hard Play Hard! Go Heavy or Go Home!

10-24-2006, 06:07 PM	#13
RaSP Pro Stature Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 66.239.233.115:8080 Posts: 926 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 30	Stress and poor rest is certainly not helping you any. Cortisol is not your friend. What's your diet like? R __________________ ~~~Dumb Animal~~~ I am Thee oMega.. GameDayDog is Thee Alpha.. But GameDayDog Hasn't been here for ever... 6'4" @ 201. Finally got back to 500lb deadlift.

10-24-2006, 06:32 PM	#14
sharaabi New Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 22 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	RaSP, here is my diet, well this is what i ATTEMPT todo but timing is always off due to meetings, school work, conference calls and sometimes company events(lame parties). i choose one of the ff depending on the day if im lifitng or not. breakfast lifting day: 3 dates with 8oz orange juice, protein shake with natural peanut butter blended, 2 whole wheat home made pita bread with boiled lentils, all natural cereal with splenda, a banana and protein shake....basiaclly PROTEIN + CARB non lifing days i have something like the mentioned above but basically have MOST OF my carbs 3 hours before betime which is 8pm. mid morning snack: cashews, an orange, protein shake with glutamine or 2 tbsp natural peanut butter on whole wheat bread lunch: VEGGIES + MEAT mid afternoon IF I HAVE TIME: another fruit (i have a sweet tooth) pre workout: PROTEIN+FAT+ CARB - 80-100G COMPLEX CARBS like whole wheat pita, brown rice with chicken or tuna along with something green. post workout: protein shake with <6g carbs before bed~10ish - veggies and meat or like 1/4 cup brown rice USUALLY I TRY TO DO A TIMED CARB DIET ON LIFTING DAYS and spread out 200-250g carbs on off days BEFORE 8PM if i am sprinting. any good?

10-25-2006, 05:23 PM	#16
RaSP Pro Stature Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 66.239.233.115:8080 Posts: 926 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 30	I agree. I only get as high as 100g pre w/o carbs on my high carb days when bulking and about 50g when cutting. (I cut about 200 calories every 14 days when cutting so that's just a rough estimate). Post w/o carbs should be high GI. I'd move those bedtime carbs to your post w/o. Carb cycling is really based on common sense when you think about it. It can be summarized with "Eat for what you did and have to do." Following that line of thought you want to eat lots Protein, Complex carbs and some fat about an hour before a big workout and get some high GI carbs and protein (with little or no fat) immediately post w/o. If you sit at a desk for the rest of the day, eat accordingly. On your off days simply skip the pre/post w/o meals entirely or keep them as low fat low carb meals (I replace them both with a single protein shake on my off days). A lot of this is from the following link: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=811783 Hope this helps. R __________________ ~~~Dumb Animal~~~ I am Thee oMega.. GameDayDog is Thee Alpha.. But GameDayDog Hasn't been here for ever... 6'4" @ 201. Finally got back to 500lb deadlift. Last edited by RaSP : 10-25-2006 at 06:13 PM.

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