My first HST routine

Jake · 08-19-2005, 02:34 AM

Ok I'm trying to throw together a new routine to start next monday, but I'm having some problems. I realize this is probably a stupid ass question but I've always done full body splits so whatever.

Anyway, I know all about the 15,10,5, and negative rep range periods for an hst routine, but does this mean that I'm only supposed to do 15,10, and 5 rep sets? Or can I do sets of 6,8,12, etc etc?

Apootheosis · 08-19-2005, 03:22 AM

If you read the main article of the hst site, i regret to inform you that that article is horribly old and never updated at all.

il post what i used later i dont got access to it right now

i guess you could do 6,8, and 12, that'll basically give you a slight change of direction to mass rather than strength, but hst is already geared for mass, so i dont see a need to do that.

i recommend 2 workouts a day, and at least 2 sets of each exercise, regardless of the bodypart. Their forums have suggested a slightly higher volume than the main article says

Jake · 08-19-2005, 03:33 AM

Actually I got the info off of bb.com. I can't do the 2 workouts a day thing because I have to work, so I think I'll just do the 6 day thing. Thanks though :bigthumbu

**powerman2000** · 08-19-2005, 08:01 AM

I'm sorry, but if you've always done full body spilts then its time to give your body a shock and change to a more traditional split with much higher volume per body part. Unless you are opposed to shocking your body into a substantial amount of new muscle growth. I'd also recommend you employ periodization. Perhaps you may even want to check into the Dual Factor protocol.

**powerman2000** · 08-19-2005, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apootheosis

Their forums have suggested a slightly higher volume than the main article says

Thats because unless you employ more volume for HST then you will not create enough muscle stimuli for hypertrophy.

Apootheosis · 08-19-2005, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

Thats because unless you employ more volume for HST then you will not create enough muscle stimuli for hypertrophy.

correct.

Apootheosis · 08-19-2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

I'm sorry, but if you've always done full body spilts then its time to give your body a shock and change to a more traditional split with much higher volume per body part. Unless you are opposed to shocking your body into a substantial amount of new muscle growth. I'd also recommend you employ periodization. Perhaps you may even want to check into the Dual Factor protocol.

periodization does not always mean that type of change.

hst itself if a periodized routine, the 15s being the base, which you can skip after the first cycle. The last 2 weeks you use eccentrics, volume is not meant to decrease.

Personally i feel, westside barbell training is a more rounded out routine, just not for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy

HST's high frequency does use the DFHT theory, the only difference is deloading is substituted with a strategic decondition

http://hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_...tratdecon.html

i dont remember the article where strategic deconditioning was compared to periodization, but i think that article should suffice

Jake · 08-19-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

I'm sorry, but if you've always done full body spilts then its time to give your body a shock and change to a more traditional split with much higher volume per body part. Unless you are opposed to shocking your body into a substantial amount of new muscle growth. I'd also recommend you employ periodization. Perhaps you may even want to check into the Dual Factor protocol.

I'm not sure what you mean by a more traditional split with more volume. While my routines have always varied I've never done less than 15-20 sets per bodypart, accept for when I train arms. I know this is what some people see as alot of volume but it's always worked great for me.

Apootheosis · 08-19-2005, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

I'm not sure what you mean by a more traditional split with more volume. While my routines have always varied I've never done less than 15-20 sets per bodypart, accept for when I train arms. I know this is what some people see as alot of volume but it's always worked great for me.

uh, you mean in a week or a day

Jake · 08-19-2005, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apootheosis

uh, you mean in a week or a day

Huh? I'm talking about a five day full body split, with different bodyparts being trained once a week. Almost never less than 15-20 sets per bodypart.

**powerman2000** · 08-19-2005, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apootheosis

periodization does not always mean that type of change.

True, the concept of periodization can be applied in many different ways.

Apootheosis · 08-19-2005, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

Huh? I'm talking about a five day full body split, with different bodyparts being trained once a week. Almost never less than 15-20 sets per bodypart.

thats solid. i guess i never counted it that way, but when i went to 6-8 sets per bodypart a week, i got some pretty shitty results.

**powerman2000** · 08-22-2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

I'm not sure what you mean by a more traditional split with more volume. While my routines have always varied I've never done less than 15-20 sets per bodypart, accept for when I train arms. I know this is what some people see as alot of volume but it's always worked great for me.

Well, you said you were going to do an HST routine. A traditional HST routine employs full body workouts where the volume per workout and per bodypart are not that high. Training each bodypart 1x per week with 15-20 sets per bodypart is what I was talking about. I also do less for arms, but that is because I train my arms 2x per week. I also employ a high volume Dual Factor protocol and I always, always, always use periodization principles for everything.

Apootheosis · 08-23-2005, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

Well, you said you were going to do an HST routine. A traditional HST routine employs full body workouts where the volume per workout and per bodypart are not that high. Training each bodypart 1x per week with 15-20 sets per bodypart is what I was talking about. I also do less for arms, but that is because I train my arms 2x per week. I also employ a high volume Dual Factor protocol and I always, always, always use periodization principles for everything.

yeah...1 bodypart a week is as outdated as say....1 set per bodypart/wkout

the old (outdated) hst theory, which is the main hst article, is one extreme, just as training 1 bodypart a week is another extreme. the much refined hst principles have acheived an optimal compromise between the two, just like west side barbell training, which is primarily for strength.

Jake · 08-23-2005, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apootheosis

yeah...1 bodypart a week is as outdated as say....1 set per bodypart/wkout

the old (outdated) hst theory, which is the main hst article, is one extreme, just as training 1 bodypart a week is another extreme. the much refined hst principles have acheived an optimal compromise between the two, just like west side barbell training, which is primarily for strength.

Do you have a link?

Apootheosis · 08-23-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

Do you have a link?

You can check their forums if you want. Generally, keep weights at 15 range low, but always increase in weight, even if you can no longer keep 15 reps or whatever rep range your doing.

Also, for the 15s, keep it to core movements

hers a nice little discussion that'll get your noggin a flowin

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/...ST;f=14;t=5321

HST is all about hypertrophy, which is why many bodybuilders are now weaker than they used to be- because the study of hypertrophy has progressed so that we can acheive mass much more efficiently without blasting our cns to increase strength.

The main objective in mass training is to avoid RBE. This is why many strength training advocates claim hst is a waste of time and too light a program.

1) Mechanical Load
Mechanical Load is necessary to induce muscle hypertrophy. This mechanism involves but isn't limited to, MAPk/ERK, satellite cells, growth factors, calcium, and number of other fairly understood factors. It is incorrect to say "we don't know how muscle grows in response to training". The whole point of the HST book is not to discuss HST, but to present the body of research explaining how hypertrophy occurs. Then HST becomes a relatively obvious conclusion if your goal is hypertrophy.

2) Acute vs. Chronic Stimuli
In order for the loading to result in significant hypertrophy, the stimulus must be applied with sufficient frequency to create a new "environment", as opposed to seemingly random and acute assaults on the mechanical integrity of the tissue. The downside of taking a week of rest every time you load a muscle is that many of the acute responses to training like increased protein synthesis, prostaglandins, IGF-1 levels, and mRNA levels all return to normal in about 36 hours. So, you spend 2 days growing and half a week in a semi-anticatabolic state returning to normal (some people call this recovery), when research shows us that recovery can take place unabated even if a the muscle is loaded again in 48 hours. So true anabolism from loading only lasts 2 days at best once the load is removed. The rest of the time you are simply balancing nitrogen retention without adding to it.

3) Progressive Load
Over time, the tissue adapts and becomes resistant to the damaging effects of mechanical load. This adaptation (resistance to the stimulus) can happen in as little as 48 hours (Repeated Bout Effect or Rapid Training Effect). As this happens, hypertrophy will stop, though neural and metabolic adaptations can and may continue. As opposed to hypertrophy, the foundation for the development of strength is neuromuscular in nature. Increases in strength from resistance exercise have been attributed to several neural adaptations including altered recruitment patterns, rate coding, motor unit synchronization, reflex potentiation, prime mover antagonist activity, and prime mover agonist activity. So, aside from incremental changes in the number of contractile filaments (hypertrophy), voluntary force production (i.e. strength) is largely a matter of "activating" motor units.

4) Strategic Deconditioning
At this point, it is necessary to either increase the load (Progressive load), or decrease the degree of conditioning to the load (Strategic Deconditioning). The muscle is sensitive not only to the absolute load, but also to the change in load (up or down). Therefore, you can get a hypertrophic effect from increasing the load from a previous load, even if the absolute load is not maximum, assuming conditioning (resistance to exercise induced micro-damage) is not to extensive. There is a limit to the number of increments you can add to increase the load. You simply reach your maximum voluntary strength eventually. This is why Strategic Deconditioning is required for continued growth once growth has

heres more stuff copied and pasted

* A muscle must be fully recovered before you should train it again.
* You should not train a muscle that is sore (DOMS, not injury).
* You must never train a muscle on consecutive days (i.e. train the same muscle everyday).
* The concept of "Overtraining" in general as it applies to bodybuilding.
* You must train with maximum "intensity" to elicit significant muscle growth.
* You should not use eccentric training on a "frequent" basis.
* You must change your exercise selection regularly in order to "confuse the muscle" into continued growth.
* You must hit a muscle at every angle in order to adequately train it.
* Muscle Fatigue is the primary indicator of having triggered the growth signal.
* You must effectively isolate a muscle in order to train it effectively.
* You can train a muscle in such as way as to change its natural shape.

Pre-existing Methods and/or practices that HST Refutes:

* Training a muscle no more than once or twice per week.
* Training less frequently as your "intensity" increases.
* Adding weight only when you can complete a certain number of additional reps at that weight (This is a fundamental difference!).
* Training to failure every set and/or workout (If you don't how would you know if you can perform additional reps at that weight yet?).
* Forced reps.
* Performing several "obligatory" exercises per body part per workout.
* Performing multiple exhaustive sets per exercise.
* Changing exercises to "confuse" the muscle.
Pre-existing Scientific Concepts of Weight Training Found in HST

* Stimulus Leads to Adaptation (cause and effect)
* Specific Adaptation to Implied Demands (SAID) or simply "Specificity"
* Progressive Resistance
* Some relationship between Time and Tension
* Diminishing Returns

Pre-existing Methods of Weight Training Found in HST

* Traditional Weight Lifting Movements both compound and isolation (squat, bench, curls, etc)
* Training the whole body 3 times per week
* Altering weight loads used over time
* Altering the number of repetitions used over time
* Doing eccentric reps (negatives)
here are a few differences between SD and Periodization:

* SD is used to decrease fitness level (A.K.A. conditioning).
* Periodization is used to increase fitness level.

* SD is used to increase the micro trauma associated with training.
* Periodization is used to decrease the trauma associated with training.

* SD is used to reduce work capacity.
* Periodization is used to increase work capacity.

* SD is applied irrespective of the need for "rest".
* Periodization according to the need for rest.

* SD is not based on "peaking" performance.
* Periodization's sole purpose is to allow the athlete to peak on a specific date.

Jake · 08-23-2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apootheosis

You can check their forums if you want. Generally, keep weights at 15 range low, but always increase in weight, even if you can no longer keep 15 reps or whatever rep range your doing.

Also, for the 15s, keep it to core movements

hers a nice little discussion that'll get your noggin a flowin

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/...ST;f=14;t=5321

HST is all about hypertrophy, which is why many bodybuilders are now weaker than they used to be- because the study of hypertrophy has progressed so that we can acheive mass much more efficiently without blasting our cns to increase strength.

The main objective in mass training is to avoid RBE. This is why many strength training advocates claim hst is a waste of time and too light a program.

1) Mechanical Load
Mechanical Load is necessary to induce muscle hypertrophy. This mechanism involves but isn't limited to, MAPk/ERK, satellite cells, growth factors, calcium, and number of other fairly understood factors. It is incorrect to say "we don't know how muscle grows in response to training". The whole point of the HST book is not to discuss HST, but to present the body of research explaining how hypertrophy occurs. Then HST becomes a relatively obvious conclusion if your goal is hypertrophy.

2) Acute vs. Chronic Stimuli
In order for the loading to result in significant hypertrophy, the stimulus must be applied with sufficient frequency to create a new "environment", as opposed to seemingly random and acute assaults on the mechanical integrity of the tissue. The downside of taking a week of rest every time you load a muscle is that many of the acute responses to training like increased protein synthesis, prostaglandins, IGF-1 levels, and mRNA levels all return to normal in about 36 hours. So, you spend 2 days growing and half a week in a semi-anticatabolic state returning to normal (some people call this recovery), when research shows us that recovery can take place unabated even if a the muscle is loaded again in 48 hours. So true anabolism from loading only lasts 2 days at best once the load is removed. The rest of the time you are simply balancing nitrogen retention without adding to it.

3) Progressive Load
Over time, the tissue adapts and becomes resistant to the damaging effects of mechanical load. This adaptation (resistance to the stimulus) can happen in as little as 48 hours (Repeated Bout Effect or Rapid Training Effect). As this happens, hypertrophy will stop, though neural and metabolic adaptations can and may continue. As opposed to hypertrophy, the foundation for the development of strength is neuromuscular in nature. Increases in strength from resistance exercise have been attributed to several neural adaptations including altered recruitment patterns, rate coding, motor unit synchronization, reflex potentiation, prime mover antagonist activity, and prime mover agonist activity. So, aside from incremental changes in the number of contractile filaments (hypertrophy), voluntary force production (i.e. strength) is largely a matter of "activating" motor units.

4) Strategic Deconditioning
At this point, it is necessary to either increase the load (Progressive load), or decrease the degree of conditioning to the load (Strategic Deconditioning). The muscle is sensitive not only to the absolute load, but also to the change in load (up or down). Therefore, you can get a hypertrophic effect from increasing the load from a previous load, even if the absolute load is not maximum, assuming conditioning (resistance to exercise induced micro-damage) is not to extensive. There is a limit to the number of increments you can add to increase the load. You simply reach your maximum voluntary strength eventually. This is why Strategic Deconditioning is required for continued growth once growth has

heres more stuff copied and pasted

* A muscle must be fully recovered before you should train it again.
* You should not train a muscle that is sore (DOMS, not injury).
* You must never train a muscle on consecutive days (i.e. train the same muscle everyday).
* The concept of "Overtraining" in general as it applies to bodybuilding.
* You must train with maximum "intensity" to elicit significant muscle growth.
* You should not use eccentric training on a "frequent" basis.
* You must change your exercise selection regularly in order to "confuse the muscle" into continued growth.
* You must hit a muscle at every angle in order to adequately train it.
* Muscle Fatigue is the primary indicator of having triggered the growth signal.
* You must effectively isolate a muscle in order to train it effectively.
* You can train a muscle in such as way as to change its natural shape.

Pre-existing Methods and/or practices that HST Refutes:

* Training a muscle no more than once or twice per week.
* Training less frequently as your "intensity" increases.
* Adding weight only when you can complete a certain number of additional reps at that weight (This is a fundamental difference!).
* Training to failure every set and/or workout (If you don't how would you know if you can perform additional reps at that weight yet?).
* Forced reps.
* Performing several "obligatory" exercises per body part per workout.
* Performing multiple exhaustive sets per exercise.
* Changing exercises to "confuse" the muscle.
Pre-existing Scientific Concepts of Weight Training Found in HST

* Stimulus Leads to Adaptation (cause and effect)
* Specific Adaptation to Implied Demands (SAID) or simply "Specificity"
* Progressive Resistance
* Some relationship between Time and Tension
* Diminishing Returns

Pre-existing Methods of Weight Training Found in HST

* Traditional Weight Lifting Movements both compound and isolation (squat, bench, curls, etc)
* Training the whole body 3 times per week
* Altering weight loads used over time
* Altering the number of repetitions used over time
* Doing eccentric reps (negatives)
here are a few differences between SD and Periodization:

* SD is used to decrease fitness level (A.K.A. conditioning).
* Periodization is used to increase fitness level.

* SD is used to increase the micro trauma associated with training.
* Periodization is used to decrease the trauma associated with training.

* SD is used to reduce work capacity.
* Periodization is used to increase work capacity.

* SD is applied irrespective of the need for "rest".
* Periodization according to the need for rest.

* SD is not based on "peaking" performance.
* Periodization's sole purpose is to allow the athlete to peak on a specific date.

Thanks!

Apootheosis · 08-23-2005, 07:46 PM

just dont go lower than 2 sets per bodypart on a workout

08-19-2005, 02:34 AM	#1
Jake Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Denver NC Posts: 104 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	My first HST routine Ok I'm trying to throw together a new routine to start next monday, but I'm having some problems. I realize this is probably a stupid ass question but I've always done full body splits so whatever. Anyway, I know all about the 15,10,5, and negative rep range periods for an hst routine, but does this mean that I'm only supposed to do 15,10, and 5 rep sets? Or can I do sets of 6,8,12, etc etc? __________________ "A mans character is his fate." "Give me a place to stand and I will move the world."

08-19-2005, 03:33 AM	#3
Jake Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Denver NC Posts: 104 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	Actually I got the info off of bb.com. I can't do the 2 workouts a day thing because I have to work, so I think I'll just do the 6 day thing. Thanks though :bigthumbu __________________ "A mans character is his fate." "Give me a place to stand and I will move the world."

08-19-2005, 08:01 AM	#4
powerman2000 The Old Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,181 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 202	I'm sorry, but if you've always done full body spilts then its time to give your body a shock and change to a more traditional split with much higher volume per body part. Unless you are opposed to shocking your body into a substantial amount of new muscle growth. I'd also recommend you employ periodization. Perhaps you may even want to check into the Dual Factor protocol. __________________ Don't forget to periodize Best BP 507 lbs competitive Best Squat 705 lbs competitive Best DL 650 lbs competitive Guns don't kill people, men who come home early do. My workout log http://www.ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6247

08-23-2005, 07:46 PM	#18
Apootheosis Pro Stature Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 625 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 10	just dont go lower than 2 sets per bodypart on a workout __________________ lawlz

08-19-2005, 03:22 AM	#2
Apootheosis Pro Stature Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 625 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 10	If you read the main article of the hst site, i regret to inform you that that article is horribly old and never updated at all. il post what i used later i dont got access to it right now i guess you could do 6,8, and 12, that'll basically give you a slight change of direction to mass rather than strength, but hst is already geared for mass, so i dont see a need to do that. i recommend 2 workouts a day, and at least 2 sets of each exercise, regardless of the bodypart. Their forums have suggested a slightly higher volume than the main article says