More Or Less Volume For Back?

Pumpatron · 06-26-2005, 03:40 PM

I have a dilemma...

If I was to do more volume for back (as it is a big muscle and I feel it needs a lot) I'd have to do a 5 day split as back would have it's own day.

If I was to do less volume for back then I'd be able to do a 4 day split but then I'm not sure whether my back would get enough work.

Which would you say was the best option to go with - 5 Day Split & More back work or 4 day split and less back work? If I was to use the 4 day split I'd get more recovery time but would my back get enough work?

Below is the back workout for the 5 day split (More Volume):

3 Sets Of 8 Weighted Pull-Ups
3 Sets Of 8 Bent Over Barbell Rows
3 Sets Of 8 Dumbbell Rows
3 Sets Of 8 Deadlifts
3 Sets Of 8 Good Mornings

Below is the back workout for the 4 day split (Less volume):

3 Sets Of 8 Weighted Pull-Ups
3 Sets Of 8 Bent Over Barbell Rows
3 Sets Of 8 Deadlifts

P.s. With the less volume back workout I'd be able to include another body part in aswell which would allow me to workout for just 4 days.

**b-boy** · 06-26-2005, 04:42 PM

just my opinion, but the 4 day split is more what I do!

3 set of weighed pullups
3 sets of bent barbell rows
3 sets of deadlifts
3 sets of either close grip pulldowns or cable rows
and I hit biceps with back, but only about 6-8 sets

**powerman2000** · 06-28-2005, 08:44 AM

I don't understand why you can't do the higher volume, which I like, and still have a 4 day split. Unless you simply are under a time restraint while you are at your gym.

**Trick D** · 06-28-2005, 01:34 PM

I am doing a 3 day split. That is how lazy I am.

For back:
5 sets of pull ups (2-3 of them weighted)
4-5 sets of deadlifts
2-3 sets of seated cable rows

This has been really helping me and my back strength is going through the roof. I do shoulders with back.

Dan · 06-28-2005, 02:48 PM

You got that backwards.....
fewer actual days in the gym = a higher volume routine not the reverse.

Working harder less often has always been key for me ...IMO neither of your routines would be viewed as a high volume routine.

You need to be in search of what works for you not things like your buddies/others make gains while doing xyz. Yes you should try it all many people take notes and it helps them a great deal.

You can fit everything into a 3-4 day routing that you can into a 5 plus.
What is your current routine maybe we can help you out...

Pumpatron · 07-14-2005, 12:14 AM

Monday - Chest & Abs

3 Sets Of 8 Incline Neutral-Grip Bench Presses
3 Sets Of 8 Decline/Flat Neutral-Grip Bench Presses (Rotate Every Week)
3 Sets Of 8 Chest Flyes

3 Sets Of 12 Weighted Crunches
3 Sets Of 12 Weighted Hanging Leg Raises

Tuesday - Back

3 Sets Of 8 Weighted Pull-ups

3 Sets Of 8 Bent Over Barbell Rows
3 Sets Of 8 Dumbbell Rows

3 Sets Of 8 Deadlifts
3 Sets Of 8 Good Mornings

Wednesday - Shoulders & Traps

3 Sets Of 8 Seated Military Presses
3 Sets Of 8 Side Lateral Raises
3 Sets Of 8 Bent Over Rear Delt Raises

3 Sets Of 8 Close-Grip Shrugs

Thursday - Legs

3 Sets Of 8 Barbell Full Squats
3 Sets Of 8 Leg Press

3 Sets Of 8 Straight-Legged Barbell Deadlifts
3 Sets Of 8 Leg Curls

3 Sets Of 8 Standing Calf Raises
3 Sets Of 8 Seated Calf Raises

Friday - Biceps, Triceps & Forearms

3 Sets Of 8 Barbell Curls
3 Sets Of 8 Dumbbell Curls

3 Sets Of 8 Flat Close-Grip Bench Presses
3 Sets Of 8 Weighted Tricep Dips

3 Sets Of 8 Barbell Reverse Curls
3 Sets Of 8 Wrist Curls

Saturday - Off
Sunday - Off

There ya go Dan... Try fitting all that into a 4 day split whilst keeping the time I spend at the gym to 1 hour. Anyone else can feel free to gimme a hand aswell :bier:

**powerman2000** · 07-14-2005, 08:50 AM

Yup, its gonna be tough if you only have 1 hour. I usually train for 1.5 hours per workout.

Pumpatron · 07-14-2005, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

Yup, its gonna be tough if you only have 1 hour. I usually train for 1.5 hours per workout.

I thought the general rule of thumb was to spend no longer than 1 hour at the gym to prevent cortisol build up?

Dan · 07-14-2005, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trick D

I am doing a 3 day split. That is how lazy I am.

For back:
5 sets of pull ups (2-3 of them weighted)
4-5 sets of deadlifts
2-3 sets of seated cable rows

This has been really helping me and my back strength is going through the roof. I do shoulders with back.

Trick IMO you should be doing more seated cable rows.

And IMO back is something that should always get more volume. I do deads on leg day more often than on back. Simply because back takes so long to get through.

~~Hacking is a Felony~~ · 07-14-2005, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan

Trick IMO you should be doing more seated cable rows.
And IMO back is something that should always get more volume. .

Agreed more rowing exercises for back (this is like deja vu, wasn't there another back thread today? lol ) like Bent Over Barbell Rows, T-bar rows, Hammer Strength plate loaded rowing machines, etc.

Dan, If I remember correctly Trick had a back injury so that probably explains the low volume.

Dan · 07-14-2005, 07:11 PM

Forget about that but if you got a bad back and can manage deads of any volume... how bad can your back be? Surely cable pulls are less stress than deads are

~~Hacking is a Felony~~ · 07-14-2005, 07:20 PM

true .. funny how we got : offtopic lol

**powerman2000** · 07-16-2005, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpatron

I thought the general rule of thumb was to spend no longer than 1 hour at the gym to prevent cortisol build up?

No, that is not entirely accurate. Cortisol doesn't even start to be released until after 1 hour or so. I train at least 90 minutes per workout. Sometimes longer. If you have the right pwo nutrition you'll squash that nasty cortisol anyway.

E_Scapegoat · 08-12-2005, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpatron

Monday - Chest & Abs

3 Sets Of 8 Incline Neutral-Grip Bench Presses
3 Sets Of 8 Decline/Flat Neutral-Grip Bench Presses (Rotate Every Week)
3 Sets Of 8 Chest Flyes

3 Sets Of 12 Weighted Crunches
3 Sets Of 12 Weighted Hanging Leg Raises

Tuesday - Back

3 Sets Of 8 Weighted Pull-ups

3 Sets Of 8 Bent Over Barbell Rows
3 Sets Of 8 Dumbbell Rows

3 Sets Of 8 Deadlifts
3 Sets Of 8 Good Mornings

Wednesday - Shoulders & Traps

3 Sets Of 8 Seated Military Presses
3 Sets Of 8 Side Lateral Raises
3 Sets Of 8 Bent Over Rear Delt Raises

3 Sets Of 8 Close-Grip Shrugs

Thursday - Legs

3 Sets Of 8 Barbell Full Squats
3 Sets Of 8 Leg Press

3 Sets Of 8 Straight-Legged Barbell Deadlifts
3 Sets Of 8 Leg Curls

3 Sets Of 8 Standing Calf Raises
3 Sets Of 8 Seated Calf Raises

Friday - Biceps, Triceps & Forearms

3 Sets Of 8 Barbell Curls
3 Sets Of 8 Dumbbell Curls

3 Sets Of 8 Flat Close-Grip Bench Presses
3 Sets Of 8 Weighted Tricep Dips

3 Sets Of 8 Barbell Reverse Curls
3 Sets Of 8 Wrist Curls

Saturday - Off
Sunday - Off

There ya go Dan... Try fitting all that into a 4 day split whilst keeping the time I spend at the gym to 1 hour. Anyone else can feel free to gimme a hand aswell :bier:

whats w/ the 1 hour thing? our bodys dont know what an hour is! I believe if your doing a 5 day split then your workout should be 45mins MAX. maybe the 60 minute rule applies to those w/ a 3 day split, but your cortisol would be a little high working out an hour a day unless you have great genetics

Jake · 08-12-2005, 06:33 PM

I think if you really concentrate on getting the exercises done you'll be able to complete a higher volume routine in the same amount of time. For example, I do the following for back and finish within 1hour, sometimes more when I train abs.

Bent over rows: 4 Sets x 6-15 Reps
Deadlifts: 5 Sets x 2-6 Reps(Heavy)
Dumbbell backlashes: 2 Sets x 10-20 Reps
Lat pulldowns: 4 Sets x 6-12 Reps
Pullups: 2 sets x --- Reps

I also like to throw in some reverse barbell rows every now and then. If you have a limited amount of time to get your workout in then that means you'll just have to work that much harder. You know what works best for your body, and you seem to want a 4 day split over a 5day, so get it done man.

LuxuryChic · 08-16-2005, 03:44 AM

I do a 4 day split with back by itself as i feel my back needs a lot more work compared to my other body parts

Monday – Back & Abs
Bent over Rows – 10, 8, 6, 4
T-Bar Rows – 10, 8, 6
CG Cable rows – 10, 8, 8
DL w/ Shrug – 10, 8, 6, 4
Good Morning – 10, 8, 6

Wednesday – Arms
DB Curls – 8, 6, 4
Hammer Curls – 10, 8, 6
Pushdowns – 10, 8, 6
Skull crushers – 10, 8, 8
Dips – 15, 10, 10

Friday – Chest & Shoulders & Abs
Bench – 10, 8, 6, 4
Incline Flies – 10, 10
Decline Flies – 10, 10
Military Press – 10, 8, 6
S-Laterals – 10, 8, 6
DB Upright Rows – 10, 8, 6

Saturday – Legs
Squats – 10, 8, 8, 6
Leg Extensions – 10, 8, 6
SLDL – 10, 8, 6
Leg Curls – 10, 8, 6
Calf Press/Raises – 20, 15, 10

**DarkFalcon** · 08-16-2005, 04:51 AM

That pretty much what I do but I'd make it a five day split and spread out shoulders and chest. That's a lot of shoulder work for one session and doing one or the other first is going to rob your strength for the other. If you wanted to keep a 4 day split I'd throw shoulders in with legs.

LuxuryChic · 08-16-2005, 04:57 AM

i normally dont do the uprights, but i put that in there because sometimes i do, all depends on how i feel. My whole session for all days is under an hour. Legs might take me a TAD bit longer (1:15 tops)

**DarkFalcon** · 08-16-2005, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuxuryChic

i normally dont do the uprights, but i put that in there because sometimes i do, all depends on how i feel. My whole session for all days is under an hour. Legs might take me a TAD bit longer (1:15 tops)

That's not as bad (17 sets involving shoulders is too much) but still not ideal IMHO. But if it works for you by all means. I prefer to have 100% of my strength for both chest and shoulders so I don't cheat one or the other.

06-26-2005, 03:40 PM	#1
Pumpatron Pro Stature Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 161 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	More Or Less Volume For Back? I have a dilemma... If I was to do more volume for back (as it is a big muscle and I feel it needs a lot) I'd have to do a 5 day split as back would have it's own day. If I was to do less volume for back then I'd be able to do a 4 day split but then I'm not sure whether my back would get enough work. Which would you say was the best option to go with - 5 Day Split & More back work or 4 day split and less back work? If I was to use the 4 day split I'd get more recovery time but would my back get enough work? Below is the back workout for the 5 day split (More Volume): 3 Sets Of 8 Weighted Pull-Ups 3 Sets Of 8 Bent Over Barbell Rows 3 Sets Of 8 Dumbbell Rows 3 Sets Of 8 Deadlifts 3 Sets Of 8 Good Mornings Below is the back workout for the 4 day split (Less volume): 3 Sets Of 8 Weighted Pull-Ups 3 Sets Of 8 Bent Over Barbell Rows 3 Sets Of 8 Deadlifts P.s. With the less volume back workout I'd be able to include another body part in aswell which would allow me to workout for just 4 days.

06-28-2005, 08:44 AM	#3
powerman2000 The Old Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,188 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 202	I don't understand why you can't do the higher volume, which I like, and still have a 4 day split. Unless you simply are under a time restraint while you are at your gym. __________________ Don't forget to periodize Best BP 507 lbs competitive Best Squat 705 lbs competitive Best DL 650 lbs competitive Guns don't kill people, men who come home early do. My workout log http://www.ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6247

07-14-2005, 12:14 AM	#6
Pumpatron Pro Stature Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 161 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	Monday - Chest & Abs 3 Sets Of 8 Incline Neutral-Grip Bench Presses 3 Sets Of 8 Decline/Flat Neutral-Grip Bench Presses (Rotate Every Week) 3 Sets Of 8 Chest Flyes 3 Sets Of 12 Weighted Crunches 3 Sets Of 12 Weighted Hanging Leg Raises Tuesday - Back 3 Sets Of 8 Weighted Pull-ups 3 Sets Of 8 Bent Over Barbell Rows 3 Sets Of 8 Dumbbell Rows 3 Sets Of 8 Deadlifts 3 Sets Of 8 Good Mornings Wednesday - Shoulders & Traps 3 Sets Of 8 Seated Military Presses 3 Sets Of 8 Side Lateral Raises 3 Sets Of 8 Bent Over Rear Delt Raises 3 Sets Of 8 Close-Grip Shrugs Thursday - Legs 3 Sets Of 8 Barbell Full Squats 3 Sets Of 8 Leg Press 3 Sets Of 8 Straight-Legged Barbell Deadlifts 3 Sets Of 8 Leg Curls 3 Sets Of 8 Standing Calf Raises 3 Sets Of 8 Seated Calf Raises Friday - Biceps, Triceps & Forearms 3 Sets Of 8 Barbell Curls 3 Sets Of 8 Dumbbell Curls 3 Sets Of 8 Flat Close-Grip Bench Presses 3 Sets Of 8 Weighted Tricep Dips 3 Sets Of 8 Barbell Reverse Curls 3 Sets Of 8 Wrist Curls Saturday - Off Sunday - Off There ya go Dan... Try fitting all that into a 4 day split whilst keeping the time I spend at the gym to 1 hour. Anyone else can feel free to gimme a hand aswell :bier: __________________ Trainee Under Myself! "2 Mice Fell Into A Bucket Of Cream. The 1st Mouse Gave Up Trying To Get Out And Drowned. The 2nd Mouse Was Determined Not To Give In And So Struggled And Struggled For A Good 10 Minutes. All This Struggling Churned The Cream Into Butter Which Allowed The Mouse To Escape From The Bucket" Now Ask Yourself... Which Mouse Are YOU?

07-14-2005, 08:50 AM	#7
powerman2000 The Old Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,188 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 202	Yup, its gonna be tough if you only have 1 hour. I usually train for 1.5 hours per workout. __________________ Don't forget to periodize Best BP 507 lbs competitive Best Squat 705 lbs competitive Best DL 650 lbs competitive Guns don't kill people, men who come home early do. My workout log http://www.ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6247

07-14-2005, 07:11 PM	#11
Dan Unpaid Trash Collector Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,725 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 26	Forget about that but if you got a bad back and can manage deads of any volume... how bad can your back be? Surely cable pulls are less stress than deads are __________________ Got an issue send a PM ... to anyone but me

06-26-2005, 04:42 PM	#2
b-boy Gold Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 556 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 42	just my opinion, but the 4 day split is more what I do! 3 set of weighed pullups 3 sets of bent barbell rows 3 sets of deadlifts 3 sets of either close grip pulldowns or cable rows and I hit biceps with back, but only about 6-8 sets

06-28-2005, 02:48 PM	#5
Dan Unpaid Trash Collector Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,725 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 26	You got that backwards..... fewer actual days in the gym = a higher volume routine not the reverse. Working harder less often has always been key for me ...IMO neither of your routines would be viewed as a high volume routine. You need to be in search of what works for you not things like your buddies/others make gains while doing xyz. Yes you should try it all many people take notes and it helps them a great deal. You can fit everything into a 3-4 day routing that you can into a 5 plus. What is your current routine maybe we can help you out...

07-14-2005, 07:20 PM	#12
~~Hacking is a Felony~~ I destroy property Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,105 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	true .. funny how we got : offtopic lol

08-12-2005, 06:33 PM	#15
Jake Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Denver NC Posts: 104 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	I think if you really concentrate on getting the exercises done you'll be able to complete a higher volume routine in the same amount of time. For example, I do the following for back and finish within 1hour, sometimes more when I train abs. Bent over rows: 4 Sets x 6-15 Reps Deadlifts: 5 Sets x 2-6 Reps(Heavy) Dumbbell backlashes: 2 Sets x 10-20 Reps Lat pulldowns: 4 Sets x 6-12 Reps Pullups: 2 sets x --- Reps I also like to throw in some reverse barbell rows every now and then. If you have a limited amount of time to get your workout in then that means you'll just have to work that much harder. You know what works best for your body, and you seem to want a 4 day split over a 5day, so get it done man. __________________ "A mans character is his fate." "Give me a place to stand and I will move the world."

08-16-2005, 03:44 AM	#16
LuxuryChic Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 113 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	I do a 4 day split with back by itself as i feel my back needs a lot more work compared to my other body parts Monday – Back & Abs Bent over Rows – 10, 8, 6, 4 T-Bar Rows – 10, 8, 6 CG Cable rows – 10, 8, 8 DL w/ Shrug – 10, 8, 6, 4 Good Morning – 10, 8, 6 Wednesday – Arms DB Curls – 8, 6, 4 Hammer Curls – 10, 8, 6 Pushdowns – 10, 8, 6 Skull crushers – 10, 8, 8 Dips – 15, 10, 10 Friday – Chest & Shoulders & Abs Bench – 10, 8, 6, 4 Incline Flies – 10, 10 Decline Flies – 10, 10 Military Press – 10, 8, 6 S-Laterals – 10, 8, 6 DB Upright Rows – 10, 8, 6 Saturday – Legs Squats – 10, 8, 8, 6 Leg Extensions – 10, 8, 6 SLDL – 10, 8, 6 Leg Curls – 10, 8, 6 Calf Press/Raises – 20, 15, 10

08-16-2005, 04:51 AM	#17
DarkFalcon I've got a RAGING clue! Join Date: May 2005 Location: dnyc99's cleaning staff Posts: 11,511 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 299	That pretty much what I do but I'd make it a five day split and spread out shoulders and chest. That's a lot of shoulder work for one session and doing one or the other first is going to rob your strength for the other. If you wanted to keep a 4 day split I'd throw shoulders in with legs.

08-16-2005, 04:57 AM	#18
LuxuryChic Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 113 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	i normally dont do the uprights, but i put that in there because sometimes i do, all depends on how i feel. My whole session for all days is under an hour. Legs might take me a TAD bit longer (1:15 tops)