Getting "explosive" without Power Cleans

A_N_91 · 04-09-2006, 02:51 AM

I thought that the best way to get explosive was power cleans but I was reading a Joe DeFranco article and he said he doesn't let his athletes do any Olympic moves and the only explosive moves he does is speed bench/squat. Because for my future, a few months ahead, I was thinking of taking up Olympic Lifting because I can be more explosive and use that strength funcationally. Is this necessary, or can I still be functional with Westisde principles?

**DJSTARER** · 04-09-2006, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_N_91

I thought that the best way to get explosive was power cleans but I was reading a Joe DeFranco article and he said he doesn't let his athletes do any Olympic moves and the only explosive moves he does is speed bench/squat. Because for my future, a few months ahead, I was thinking of taking up Olympic Lifting because I can be more explosive and use that strength funcationally. Is this necessary, or can I still be functional with Westisde principles?

Agreed. I'm sure many will disagree, but my power coach here at PSU has taught us that PCs are the bastards of speed lifts. Stick with ur box squats and high rows.

Vegeto · 04-09-2006, 05:38 AM

I don't understand what could be so wrong with powercleans.

**ravadongon** · 04-09-2006, 11:32 AM

OLs are definitely not a requirement, I don't do them that often really cos my technique sucks. You can still get explosive if you stick to westside principle (conjugate periodisation with ME and DE days) and do sprint training 1-2 times per week.

A_N_91 · 04-09-2006, 01:01 PM

Because here is/was my dillemma. I don't have access to weights for the next few weeks/months but I was planning to find a good gym in the meantime. I don't want to be a powerlifter like most who lack flexibility and are just big. And I don't want to be a bodybuilder whose just big. I want to be like those Olympic Lifters because they do some crazy feats and have that "functional strength". This wanted me to join an Olympic Gym and start up in Olympic Lifting. But this would make me need to travel with bus everyday to the gym for several hours. Then I read a DeFranco article and he said his athletes are functional and explosive and they don't even do power cleans. And if that's the case, I can just join up any gym.

So my question is I guess...will I still be as explosive doing Westside principles (DE ME days) as to doing Olympic Lifts fulltime?

Vegeto · 04-09-2006, 05:57 PM

You don't need an O-gym to do powercleans and cleans IMO. It's jerks, snatches, and maybe overheadsquats that really require bumperplates and platforms. If you have a place to deadlift at your current gym, then you have a place to powerclean. Just don't drop the weights.

Your dilima is similar to mine, in that I want to do O-lifting instead of powerlifting too... Only I am limited by the height of my ceiling. (can't do any lifts that require standing with the barbell overhead or I will put holes in my ceiling). I think both of us need a modified Westside routine that includes cleans, powercleans, and highpulls, although it is kinda hard trying to use Westside principles with those lifts because Westside is designed to increase bench and squat, not clean and jerk + snatch. So to mix the two, what do your 'ME' goals become? Clean and bench??? ...don't mind me, I'm just brainstorming here...

IMO, westside guys are quite explosive, but there is no question to me that they are a different kind of athlete than O-Lifters.

A_N_91 · 04-09-2006, 06:22 PM

Yeah, I would really have it at my house but ceiling is 7 feet and I'm 6'1''...I can't even fit a squat rack so home gym isn't an option at all. And I can't do it at a normal gym because they don't allow me too and I need to be taught. Because I really want to do Olympic Lifting full-time so I need a teacher. I found a nearby gym but I would have to pay $20 weekly for bus commute, which I don't have a problem with, I just can't find a job.

So I'm doing bodyweight workouts until I can find a solution to get to an Oly-Gym. But I'm hearing I can still get explosive with regular workouts using Westside. IDK, is the explosiveness the same if I do Oly or use Westside?

Vegeto · 04-09-2006, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_N_91

Yeah, I would really have it at my house but ceiling is 7 feet and I'm 6'1''...I can't even fit a squat rack so home gym isn't an option at all. And I can't do it at a normal gym because they don't allow me too and I need to be taught. Because I really want to do Olympic Lifting full-time so I need a teacher. I found a nearby gym but I would have to pay $20 weekly for bus commute, which I don't have a problem with, I just can't find a job.

So I'm doing bodyweight workouts until I can find a solution to get to an Oly-Gym. But I'm hearing I can still get explosive with regular workouts using Westside. IDK, is the explosiveness the same if I do Oly or use Westside?

I can certainly understand wanting a teacher, especially if you have that option available. That really sounds like your best option if you can pull it off. How much do the teachers/coaches cost at that oly-gym?

Does your gym really not allow you to do Powercleans? Seriously, do they walk up to you and say "that's not allowed here"? LOL @ that gym if they do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_N_91

But I'm hearing I can still get explosive with regular workouts using Westside. IDK, is the explosiveness the same if I do Oly or use Westside?

I hope others will chime in to answere your question about Westside and explosiveness, but... From my veiw, having an explosive squat/bench is not the same as having explosive squat, snatch, clean and jerk..ect... It's just not. The mirco-adjustments in technique that you develope over the years in a powerlifting program will not be the same as the micro adjustment you would make for Oly exercises. The end result is an athlete that moves completely different, even if they both have their own kind of 'explosivness'. Watch some westside vids and watch some Oly vids. You will be able to see the difference in the way they move. So NO, the explosivness is NOT the same. I am not saying that one is better than the other, but they are different, and you will develope different with one as opposed to the other.

A_N_91 · 04-09-2006, 10:57 PM

The gym that offers coaching is $100 a month to get 1 on 1 coaching so that's probably 1-2 months to learn and after that it's $30 a month.

At my old gym I used to do powercleans, then the owner came to me and said some of the other people are complaining about the sound and I said I won't drop it on the floor as loud. He said it's not allowed anyways...faggots, lol

IMO, I think the explosiveness in Oly lifters is mroe but I might be wrong. Who would be a better football player, Dave Tate or Hossein Reza-Zadeh? Also, Reza-Zadeh can dunk at 350 lbs.

I just need to get the commute to the Oly gym.

DB15 · 04-10-2006, 01:20 AM

I could only wish there was a oly gym around here

A_N_91 · 04-10-2006, 11:36 AM

I read this in a thread on FI. Who would win win a race? A powerlifter or an Oly lifter? It was a good thread too but I don't have the link. It said thing like PL are explosive in bench and squat but Oly since they do cleans and snatches are explosive in the whole body as a unit.

So I'm guessing Oly "explosiveness" is better than PL "explosiveness"?

A_N_91 · 04-22-2006, 04:25 AM

A question...if I have no option of doing OLY workouts from lack of gyms/coaching/etc. is the next best option doing a westside approach with some plyometric work on the side?

04-09-2006, 02:51 AM	#1
A_N_91 Pro Stature Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 849 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 11	Getting "explosive" without Power Cleans I thought that the best way to get explosive was power cleans but I was reading a Joe DeFranco article and he said he doesn't let his athletes do any Olympic moves and the only explosive moves he does is speed bench/squat. Because for my future, a few months ahead, I was thinking of taking up Olympic Lifting because I can be more explosive and use that strength funcationally. Is this necessary, or can I still be functional with Westisde principles?

04-09-2006, 05:38 AM	#3
Vegeto blameless sinner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 803 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 15	I don't understand what could be so wrong with powercleans. __________________ ______________ ________________ ......Busy Training...... __________________ ________________ __________________

04-09-2006, 11:32 AM	#4
ravadongon Audere est Facere Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 372 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 7	OLs are definitely not a requirement, I don't do them that often really cos my technique sucks. You can still get explosive if you stick to westside principle (conjugate periodisation with ME and DE days) and do sprint training 1-2 times per week. __________________ My Weight Training Log - http://ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?p=112673 For Full Journal visit - http://forum.athletes.com/showthread.php?t=2466 or http://charliefrancis.com/community/...ad.php?t=11822.

04-09-2006, 05:57 PM	#6
Vegeto blameless sinner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 803 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 15	You don't need an O-gym to do powercleans and cleans IMO. It's jerks, snatches, and maybe overheadsquats that really require bumperplates and platforms. If you have a place to deadlift at your current gym, then you have a place to powerclean. Just don't drop the weights. Your dilima is similar to mine, in that I want to do O-lifting instead of powerlifting too... Only I am limited by the height of my ceiling. (can't do any lifts that require standing with the barbell overhead or I will put holes in my ceiling). I think both of us need a modified Westside routine that includes cleans, powercleans, and highpulls, although it is kinda hard trying to use Westside principles with those lifts because Westside is designed to increase bench and squat, not clean and jerk + snatch. So to mix the two, what do your 'ME' goals become? Clean and bench??? ...don't mind me, I'm just brainstorming here... IMO, westside guys are quite explosive, but there is no question to me that they are a different kind of athlete than O-Lifters. __________________ ______________ ________________ ......Busy Training...... __________________ ________________ __________________

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04-09-2006, 01:01 PM	#5
A_N_91 Pro Stature Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 849 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 11	Because here is/was my dillemma. I don't have access to weights for the next few weeks/months but I was planning to find a good gym in the meantime. I don't want to be a powerlifter like most who lack flexibility and are just big. And I don't want to be a bodybuilder whose just big. I want to be like those Olympic Lifters because they do some crazy feats and have that "functional strength". This wanted me to join an Olympic Gym and start up in Olympic Lifting. But this would make me need to travel with bus everyday to the gym for several hours. Then I read a DeFranco article and he said his athletes are functional and explosive and they don't even do power cleans. And if that's the case, I can just join up any gym. So my question is I guess...will I still be as explosive doing Westside principles (DE ME days) as to doing Olympic Lifts fulltime?

04-09-2006, 06:22 PM	#7
A_N_91 Pro Stature Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 849 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 11	Yeah, I would really have it at my house but ceiling is 7 feet and I'm 6'1''...I can't even fit a squat rack so home gym isn't an option at all. And I can't do it at a normal gym because they don't allow me too and I need to be taught. Because I really want to do Olympic Lifting full-time so I need a teacher. I found a nearby gym but I would have to pay $20 weekly for bus commute, which I don't have a problem with, I just can't find a job. So I'm doing bodyweight workouts until I can find a solution to get to an Oly-Gym. But I'm hearing I can still get explosive with regular workouts using Westside. IDK, is the explosiveness the same if I do Oly or use Westside?

04-09-2006, 10:57 PM	#9
A_N_91 Pro Stature Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 849 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 11	The gym that offers coaching is $100 a month to get 1 on 1 coaching so that's probably 1-2 months to learn and after that it's $30 a month. At my old gym I used to do powercleans, then the owner came to me and said some of the other people are complaining about the sound and I said I won't drop it on the floor as loud. He said it's not allowed anyways...faggots, lol IMO, I think the explosiveness in Oly lifters is mroe but I might be wrong. Who would be a better football player, Dave Tate or Hossein Reza-Zadeh? Also, Reza-Zadeh can dunk at 350 lbs. I just need to get the commute to the Oly gym.

04-10-2006, 01:20 AM	#10
DB15 Pro Stature Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 101 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	I could only wish there was a oly gym around here

04-10-2006, 11:36 AM	#11
A_N_91 Pro Stature Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 849 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 11	I read this in a thread on FI. Who would win win a race? A powerlifter or an Oly lifter? It was a good thread too but I don't have the link. It said thing like PL are explosive in bench and squat but Oly since they do cleans and snatches are explosive in the whole body as a unit. So I'm guessing Oly "explosiveness" is better than PL "explosiveness"?

04-22-2006, 04:25 AM	#12
A_N_91 Pro Stature Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 849 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 11	A question...if I have no option of doing OLY workouts from lack of gyms/coaching/etc. is the next best option doing a westside approach with some plyometric work on the side?