gruntjc

hi all,

been training using bill star's westside for a good 12 months now. feel like my strength has gone right up but overall conditioning is suffering a little.

routine:

monday - squats, bench, chin
wed - military press, barbell row, close grip bench or dip, barbell curl
friday - deadlifts, bench, close grip pulldown

i normally perform 2-3 work sets of my 5RM, trying to add weight whenever I can.

PB's:
1. Sumo Deadlift - 180K for 5
2. Flat Barbell Bench - 125K for 5
3. Row - 100K for 8
4. Box Squat - 165K for 5

* all weights include 20K bar

Lately, I've found that after I give my absolute all to squats (in particular), I dont really have anything left to give to benching and rowing. This disappoints me because, according to Bill Starr's routine, straight after you're finished with Squats, you move onto Benching, then rowing.

I'm not using super-human weights, but after grinding out 3 sets of 5 of 165K squats.. I'm pretty rooted.

So... what are my options? I dont want to use a typical bodypart split because it goes against what I believe about training - that splits are unnecessary and generally less productive than full body workouts.

I could come around to the idea of a 2 way split - i.e. upper/lower.

Would really appreciate people's thoughts on the subject.

Josh

davtown

Upper/Lower could work, so could a routine like this: http://www.ironmass.com/training/236...l-routine.html

If you like the split you have now, you could probably still use it. Try squatting at the end of your workout. The program is set up differently... but just try it for 2 weeks and see how you do. As was said in the link I just posted,
Just gotta find what works for you.

If conditioning is a concern, you can play with rest times (shorten them) and rep ranges (increase them/use a variety) in an attempt to add an aerobic element to an otherwise anaerobic activity. If you're not doing any cardio, adding that in would help conditioning. Another choice would be to add in a day or two each week for strictly conditioning work... if you want ideas for conditioning type workouts I can dig up some links for you.

__________________
****MY TRAINING LOG****

current/goal
D: 330/380
S: 260/300
B: 235/260

gruntjc

thanks mate,

appreciate your feedback.

i think i'll give that a shot - putting pressing first before squatting. i've just always been a believer of putting your MAJOR compounds first (not that benching isnt a compound... but squats are more of a FULL BODY movement).

g'day guys,

thanks for your individual replies. really appreciate the feedback.

the 'standard' bill starr routine... suggests squatting 3 times a week: day one is ramping to one set of 5, day 3 is 20% lighter than day 1, and day 5 is 3 sets of 5 (usually at a slightly lower weight than day 1's set of 5, just so you can get 5 reps on all (or most) of the 3 sets). i cant squat 3 times a week. mentally, it's too tough and two is definitely enough for me. plus, my lower back just cant handle it. If I was squatting 80K or 100K.. or even 120K.. I could do it.. but I doubt there are many lifters out there who are squatting 120K+, 2-3 times a week (not that 120K+ is a MASSIVE squat.. I know it pales in comparison to some).

one book that I read recently was Dinosaur Training. The author basically asserts that 3x5, 1x5.. even doing singles can be highly productive. I really do have to think about my recovery though. I used to train using DC (so, upper/lower split, one rest pause set to failure, 4 sec negative) and found that my workouts were usually done within the hour. Now, even with 3 compound movements, my workouts are usually 1 and 1/4 hours. Wondering whether the extra 15-20 minutes makes a difference to my overall recovery.

DJSTARER

this subject is a big debate right now, in general.


Personally, I have been using an upper/lower split which incorperates ME and RE methods during the off season. In-seaon, i've been using a 4 day shieko program, which is basically a 4 day full body split. I've done great on both, so give'em both a try.

__________________
My philosophies on training:

"Extreme training yields extreme results"

"Just because you can, does not mean you should"

"The best program is the one you are not doing"





Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass

PGA Professional of America


Current Stats:
474 Squat
601 Deadlift
320 Bench


Goals for next training cycle:

Total 1400 in competition