Big V

I always post my stats first just incase it is any relevance to the thread. Anyway here they are:

Age - 21
Height - 5,10"
Weight - 245lbs
Bodyfat - 13/14%
Experience - Been bodybuilding since I was 15
AAS - Just finished my first ever experience with AAS, which was a 10 week cycle of Test-E.
Insulin dependent diabetic.




For a long time now I've been using the following routine:


Monday - Chest/Triceps
Wednesday - Back/Biceps
Friday - Legs/Shoulders

I use 3x6 for EVERY exercise. I think I've been using this type of routine now for around 2-3 years (with breaks every so often). Although I may have changed exercises etc, the general routine itself has stayed the same and now I've decided it's time for a change. Also, because I've just come off a cycle of AAS, I want to change up my routine to help shock my body into keeping most of the gains I made during it.



I was looking through the routines & came across Frankie NY's 5x5 program (Frankie NY's Mass Building Program). It is 3 days a week which is perfect for me aswell. I have some questions though:

- It says "THIS ROUTINE IS INTENDED FOR THE NATURAL TRAINER ONLY ". Why is that? Does this mean that even though I'm not on the AAS anymore, I still shouldn't use it? If so why? Also, just for future reference incase I decide to do another cycle & I like the routine, would it be stupid to use it whilst on a cycle?

- I've NEVER used 5x5 before & mainly want to increase mass and/or not lose any of my gains. How is 5x5 for this? Is it more of a strength gain routine than a mass gain (due to the 5 reps) or is it mass aswell (due to the 5 sets)?

- Although this routine has had a lot of praise and many people think it's great, I can't help but be skeptical about it. The thing is, each day (Mon/Wed/Fri) ONLY has 3 exercises, with the exception of Friday which has 4 (abs added). Is this enough? This is one of the main reasons pushing me away from using this routine, because I've never used such a little amount of exercises per routine. I'm afraid that I won't stimulate my muscles properly into new groth with such few exercises. For example, on my back day I usually do 4 back exercises but this routine advises that only 2 should be done. On PUSH day there is only ONE exercise for each body part, which I find extremely strange. I'm used to doing around 3 exercises for chest (e.g. Flat BB, Incline DB, Flat Flyes). For shoulders there's only an exercise listed that targets the anterior delts... How are the posterior/lateral delts meant to grow? Are they meant to rely solely on the other exercises such as BB rows etc?

- Is the reason the routine has so little exercises because I'll be doing more sets per exercise, therefore it's still the same intensity as if I was to add more exercises and do less sets?

- And last but not least, I just read about a program called "Bill Starr's 5x5" which many people believe is the BEST mass/strength program out there. Here it is - (Bill Starr - Glenn Pendlay 5x5 - Periodized Version, Dual Factor Theory). Have any of you heard of this and if so, do you think this is a better choice than the Frankie NY program? I'm also skeptical about the Bill Starr routine (although I'm guaranteeing he knows more than me & it obviously works, I'm just overanalyzing []). The reason I'm skeptical is because just like the Frankie NY program, there's just THREE exercises per routine & in his one he just does Bench/Squat/Deadlift/Barbell Row/Military Press. I realise they're the BEST mass building exercises out there but it just seems odd not to add anything else into the routine such as some important isolations like Barbell Curls, Skull Crushers, Flyes etc. If it's such a good routine, why doesn't EVERYBODY use it or something like it? Many people use routines such as the one I'm on at the moment with 3x6 or 4x8 etc incorporating many different exercises into their routine instead of just 3 to 5. Would I not get any lagging bodyparts if I was to use such a little amount of exercises?



That's all I can think of at the moment in terms of questions, but I'm sure I'll think of more soon. In the time being, I'd be extremely grateful if the questions above could be answered for me, as like I said, I'm quite skeptical about using the routine even though people think it's great.

Thanks a lot.

davtown

I have no idea about what to do/how to train post-cycle.... but I can tell you that the Madcow/Bill Starr 5x5 that you linked to is a great program. I ran the intermediate version and did well with strength/mass.

__________________
--Training Journal--

current/goal
D: 350/380
S: 280/300
B: 235/260

Big V

Sounds good. Any idea how I'd know when to change from the Intermediate to the Advanced program or whether I should just start with the advanced program?

Thanks

bubba g

Judging by your stats, I'd say start with advanced..

Big V

Thanks, I'll start reading up on the advanced section, atlhough do you feel this is one of the best routines I could use considering I'm looking for a change & I'm just coming off a cycle?

powerman2000

I'd have to say that my bet would be you'll experience more significant hypertrophy by shocking your muscles more with either some higher rep schemes and volume or with some advanced form of periodization training. If you've been doing 3x6 for years on your exercises then your body has completely adapted and a 5x5 routine isn't much of a change, imo.

__________________
Don't forget to periodize
Best BP 507 lbs *competitive*
Best Squat 705 lbs *competitive*
Best DL 650 lbs *competitive*


Guns don't kill people, men who come home early do.

My workout log http://www.ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6247

DJSTARER

the original poster sounds like he has some really mesomorphic qualities. With that said... it doesn't really matter what you do, as long as you keep progressing. PM is right, though. The best routine is always the one you're not on.

__________________
My philosophies on training:

"Extreme training yields extreme results"

"Just because you can, does not mean you should"

"The best program is the one you are not doing"





Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass

PGA Professional of America


Current Stats:
474 Squat
601 Deadlift
320 Bench


Goals for next training cycle:

500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

bubba g

Maintaining gains post cycle has more to do with PCT (Post cycle therapy) and diet.

As long as you are training hard, and working all of your muscles within a certain rep range, you should be good to go. To maintain or gain muscle size, you obviously don't want to work in a rep range higher then 12, or lower then 6.. unless you use the 5x5 program

What did you use for PCT?

Big V

Not actually started my PCT yet. Currently I'm in the 2 week waiting period before I start it (you know the 2 weeks from last shot etc etc). When I start it my PCT will look like this:




Powerman, you mentioned doing "high rep" schemes to shcok my body. By high reps, do you mean reps such as 10 instead of 6? E.g. would it be a significant change if I was to go from 3x6 to 3x10 for a while?

To be honest, I feel I should know this, but because I've always been afraid to train in a rep range higher than 6, I've never bothered to try really in fear of losing my gains/not making any more. All over the place there are articles/posts/threads etc telling you that the optimal mass building rep range is around 5-8, even Bill Starr (Madcow) said that, and "apparently" he knows what he's talking about, but they don't say anything about changing rep ranges once you start to plateau so like I said, could switching to 3x10 be just as beneficial in adding mass to my body as 3x6?

Thanks.

DJSTARER

train in a variety of rep ranges. Some for hypertrophy, and some for strength. It's the best of both worlds. There are many ways to set that up. Make your "big" moves more intense (75-90 of 1rm), and your single joint exercises 6-12.

__________________
My philosophies on training:

"Extreme training yields extreme results"

"Just because you can, does not mean you should"

"The best program is the one you are not doing"





Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass

PGA Professional of America


Current Stats:
474 Squat
601 Deadlift
320 Bench


Goals for next training cycle:

500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition