A completely new training approach...

**Grunt76** · 12-20-2005, 03:07 AM

It's called ACIT.

I've read the whole thing, it's interesting.

http://www.acit-training.com/

DarkFalcon · 12-20-2005, 03:15 AM

I don't have time to read it right now can you give a brief idea of some of the new ideas?

**Grunt76** · 12-20-2005, 04:27 AM

Yeh... They say if you keep your muscle at about MAX CONTRACTION FORCE throughout your reps, the lactic acid buildup in the slow-twitch fibers will turn them off quick and you'll end up recruiting 100% from your fast-twitch fibers, the ones that can grow the most.

This is in contrast with normal reps where the slow-twitch fibers have time to replenish ATP at the top & bottom of the rep, meaning that the pure fast-twitch fibers are less recruited.

Vegeto · 12-20-2005, 04:59 AM

I looks like they are basically focusing on the negetive (decent) of an exercise while using antagonist muscles to keep a continual flexion of the mover. IE; When decending on the curl, flex the bicep hard and use the tricep to lower the weight.

I don't find it to be all that special, but I think it would help beginners to develope the controle neccecary for safe effective lifting. IMO, ballancing antagonist muslces is part of quality technique, but not a center focal point. I would be worried about neglecting your recovery system by bypassing your slow twitch fibers, sounds like you will have to take the elevator from now on.

I would recomend doing this program if it sounds new to you, but I would not spend more than 6 months focusing on it before 'getting over it' and looking for something more advanced. Good stuff to play around with though, you never know what other things it might lead you to.

**Grunt76** · 12-20-2005, 05:02 PM

Did you read the website?

Vegeto · 12-20-2005, 06:22 PM

I am not saying it is a real bad method for growing fast twitch fibers, I just don't reccomend this training to be your main focus for too long. Remember, ACIT skips the phases that use slow and medium twitch fibers and their energy system, it skips cardiovascular workload, and it skips CNS workload. Those are things that you don't want to neglect. While ACIT may be a good method to use sometimes, and it may be a good technique to incorperate into your training... I don't think it is very suitable for conditioning, health and exercise when used as your main skill.

Contrary to what the faq said, I have experimented with similar training, and I did need to use lighter weights. I did gain muscle from similar methods too! But, I got winded everytime I went up a flight of stairs, hence my comment in my post above, "sounds like you will have to take the elevator from now on."

Do it. Try it out. Take what you learned and move on.

Just my

**Grunt76** · 12-20-2005, 09:01 PM

OK so we agree then. Yeah, I'm a die-hard advocate of voluntary overtraining as part of a periodization approach. This looks like it's perfect for doing right after the overloading part of my periodization.

**powerman2000** · 12-20-2005, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss01

Yeh... They say if you keep your muscle at about MAX CONTRACTION FORCE throughout your reps, the lactic acid buildup in the slow-twitch fibers will turn them off quick and you'll end up recruiting 100% from your fast-twitch fibers, the ones that can grow the most.

This is in contrast with normal reps where the slow-twitch fibers have time to replenish ATP at the top & bottom of the rep, meaning that the pure fast-twitch fibers are less recruited.

I've never heard of any muscle fibers having the ability to replenish ATP the way you described above. I have read a ton of data related to muscle recruitment and I don't believe one can manipulate the fiber recruitment in that fashion. Basically, most muscle group fibers will be 100% recruited with a weight that is approximately 80% of RM from the very first repetition. What they're saying is that muscle recruitment is at least somewhat dependent on lactic acid accumulation. I don't think that is sound science.

**Grunt76** · 12-20-2005, 10:48 PM

May I suggest you read the whole thing? Someone asked for a summary, and I gave them one. Now we're not going to discuss specifics starting with a summary are we?

It brings up interesting points. Now in order to actually discuss the science involved, everyone involved in the discussion must read the whole thing. Otherwise, what's the point?

**powerman2000** · 12-20-2005, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss01

May I suggest you read the whole thing? Someone asked for a summary, and I gave them one. Now we're not going to discuss specifics starting with a summary are we?

It brings up interesting points. Now in order to actually discuss the science involved, everyone involved in the discussion must read the whole thing. Otherwise, what's the point?

I agree and thats why I'm reading it right now.

**powerman2000** · 12-20-2005, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss01

It brings up interesting points. Now in order to actually discuss the science involved, everyone involved in the discussion must read the whole thing. Otherwise, what's the point?

I don't need to read anymore after this:

"Doing 3 sets of 6 reps when you could have performed 9 or 10 each time is not going to give you the same growth as doing just one set but performing as many reps as you possibly could because in the first instance you do not get the high rate coding and maximal utilization of the all-important FT fibers. In other words, you will never really work your big and heavy FT fibers hard by stopping short of failure."

Is this what they are calling "revolutionary". :banghead:

Its been scientifically proven that you don't have to train to "failure" in order to achieve 100% muscle recruitment and it sounds to me like thats what they are promoting.

**powerman2000** · 12-20-2005, 11:45 PM

Going to failure induces greater fatigue. With heavier loads this is even more pronounced and not only interferes with rest times between sets but can have a cumulative effect that affects workout scheduling (consider many HIT trainees who train once a week). So why do it if you're using a load that recruits and exhausts all FT motor units without going to failure? What does it achieve other than induce unnecessary fatigue? The facts are all there.

The authors even point out the need for improved recovery, but then turn around and contradict themselves by preaching failure training.

**Grunt76** · 12-21-2005, 01:36 AM

I don't follow you man.

-Going to failure doesn't induce greater fatigue unless you compare a given number of sets taken to failure VS not taken to failure, which is bass ackward because OF COURSE if you need 15 sets subfailure, you're not going to need 15 sets @ failure... !?

-Their discovery hinges on the "fact" that they only exhaust the ATP part of the energy reserves, which is GREAT, because it induces a very small amount of fatigue...

**NYCmitch25** · 12-21-2005, 01:50 AM

it pretty much covers any basic PT certification class.

**Grunt76** · 12-21-2005, 03:09 AM

I find it interesting that you guys are so quick to shoot down something like that.

Why?

I've studied bodybuilding for the last 15 years as a hobby, including all aspects of the lifestyle. I do not remember EVER seeing this approach, or reading about some of the more important points of their thesis...

Certainly, accumulation of lactic acid TURNING OFF a muscle fiber and "inroading" aren't part of basic PT. That it's exhaustion of ATP that triggers growth more than that of glycogen, is not part of basic PT either. There's plenty more.

Vegeto · 12-21-2005, 04:09 AM

While I'm not sure if 'inroading' is real in the way it is presented in the article, some of the arguments here do sound like they didn't read all the article. If you read the whole article, the main point is that training to failure is the way to go, but the traditional methods of training to failure are too hard on the recovory system. The real question is the science behind lactic acid buildup and they way they present muscle fiber recruitment. Putting their theories about it aside, there are real scientific studies performed on restricting bloodflow and the results it gets (the japanese study for example (which I have seen before) ). I still feel the same way about it as I did before, but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss01

OK so we agree then. Yeah, I'm a die-hard advocate of voluntary overtraining as part of a periodization approach. This looks like it's perfect for doing right after the overloading part of my periodization.

... but...^This sounds like a reasonable use of those techniques to me. The techniques they use do get some results, as I have experimented with something similar myself a few years back, BUT I have no clue as to whether their theories about what it does holds water or not.

IMO, there are far better techniques out there.

12-20-2005, 04:59 AM	#4
Vegeto blameless sinner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 803 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 15	Sounds good, (depending on where you are at) I looks like they are basically focusing on the negetive (decent) of an exercise while using antagonist muscles to keep a continual flexion of the mover. IE; When decending on the curl, flex the bicep hard and use the tricep to lower the weight. I don't find it to be all that special, but I think it would help beginners to develope the controle neccecary for safe effective lifting. IMO, ballancing antagonist muslces is part of quality technique, but not a center focal point. I would be worried about neglecting your recovery system by bypassing your slow twitch fibers, sounds like you will have to take the elevator from now on. I would recomend doing this program if it sounds new to you, but I would not spend more than 6 months focusing on it before 'getting over it' and looking for something more advanced. Good stuff to play around with though, you never know what other things it might lead you to. __________________ ______________ ________________ ......Busy Training...... __________________ ________________ __________________

12-20-2005, 06:22 PM	#6
Vegeto blameless sinner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 803 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 15	I am not saying it is a real bad method for growing fast twitch fibers, I just don't reccomend this training to be your main focus for too long. Remember, ACIT skips the phases that use slow and medium twitch fibers and their energy system, it skips cardiovascular workload, and it skips CNS workload. Those are things that you don't want to neglect. While ACIT may be a good method to use sometimes, and it may be a good technique to incorperate into your training... I don't think it is very suitable for conditioning, health and exercise when used as your main skill. Contrary to what the faq said, I have experimented with similar training, and I did need to use lighter weights. I did gain muscle from similar methods too! But, I got winded everytime I went up a flight of stairs, hence my comment in my post above, "sounds like you will have to take the elevator from now on." Do it. Try it out. Take what you learned and move on. Just my __________________ ______________ ________________ ......Busy Training...... __________________ ________________ __________________

12-20-2005, 11:45 PM	#12
powerman2000 The Old Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,226 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 203	Going to failure induces greater fatigue. With heavier loads this is even more pronounced and not only interferes with rest times between sets but can have a cumulative effect that affects workout scheduling (consider many HIT trainees who train once a week). So why do it if you're using a load that recruits and exhausts all FT motor units without going to failure? What does it achieve other than induce unnecessary fatigue? The facts are all there. The authors even point out the need for improved recovery, but then turn around and contradict themselves by preaching failure training. __________________ Don't forget to periodize Best BP 507 lbs competitive Best Squat 705 lbs competitive Best DL 650 lbs competitive Guns don't kill people, men who come home early do. My workout log http://www.ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6247

12-20-2005, 03:15 AM	#2
DarkFalcon I've got a RAGING clue! Join Date: May 2005 Location: dnyc99's cleaning staff Posts: 11,511 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 299	I don't have time to read it right now can you give a brief idea of some of the new ideas?

12-21-2005, 01:50 AM	#14
NYCmitch25 Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,104 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	it pretty much covers any basic PT certification class.