bulking and cardio what is everyone opinion?

JB20 · 02-28-2006, 05:10 PM

i have been lifting since 15 but have only made gains for the past 2 years because of my lack of knowledge.i drank almost everyday and had a shitty diet but thanks to bb.com i learned a lot about diet and training.i manage to get up to 200 pds with a bench of 230, squat of 205. and a deadlift of 220 so last summer i decided to cut since i had a gut and i ended up losing a lot of muscle and strenght due to my poor knowledge of cardio. i did cardio in the morning on an empty stomach because i read somewhere that eating in the morning would interupt the fat burning process that happens while you sleep. since i was not happy with my cutting results i decided to bulk back up which i have but the 36 inch waist and 21% bf is still bothering me so i look around the internet and found some articles that said you can do cardio during bulking up to 3 times a weeks thirty minutes each time and you will not lose muscle as long as you keep your calories up.i was thinking of trying this but i thought i would ask you guys first

nextteenamateur · 03-01-2006, 12:41 AM

I would do cardio at least 4x a week if you are at 21%. Do it on an empty stomach first thing in the morning. Also, make sure your diet is in check. You shouldn't have trouble losing fat and not muscle.

**skelooth** · 03-01-2006, 12:56 AM

I think cardio 3x a week or more is damn near essential *IF* you are endomorphic. It would not be good for an ecto.

nta, he just said he has bad results from fasted cardio, why would you tell him to do it again?

**DJSTARER** · 03-01-2006, 01:42 AM

Original Poster:

You seem to have (as Skel hinted) some endo qualities to ya. Personally, I say NAY to cardio on a bulk, but you may want to keep a regiment year round. Give it a try, if you are not gaining, eat more, or stop doing cardio. What type of routine are you on anyway?

Don't forget your multi

**EME** · 03-01-2006, 02:19 AM

I personally don't do any cardio during mass building phases.

I have to eat a LOT of calories and carbs to make good gains and I need every single calorie I eat to go to building muscle.

I don't stay ripped during mass building, but I also don't have problems putting on tons of fat. I do smooth out and my bodyfat does increase, but that is part of my plan, and I know it will come off again when the time comes.

This is another one of those questions that there is no perfect answer for. It really depends a lot on your particular body, and how it responds when you are taking in higher calories.

From a purely health perspective, sure cardio is great for you, and there are certainly merits to doing it year round.

However, for more than half the year, I am usually doing anywhere from 10-14 cardio sessions per week. During the few months that I drop the cardio for the sake of building mass, I have never seen any significant health problems. Neither my cholesterol or blood pressure go up significantly, and I have suffered no ill effects from it.

So, ultimately you have to decide what is best for you. If you are an ecto and trying to build mass, I say completely drop it for at least 12 weeks during your peek mass building phase. Then go back to at least alternating periods of training where you include it, and take it out.

If you gain weight more easily, experiment with an amount that allows you keep you fat gain in check, but still make mass gains.

It's really all about figuring out what works best for you.

- EME

JB20 · 03-02-2006, 02:03 PM

my diet is fine. i eat the same thing everyone else does oatmeal(where most of my carbs come from),eggs,tuna,whole wheat bread(not the greatest bread because of hfcs but i eat it after a workout for the insulin spike)fat free cottage cheese,fat free cheese,natural peanut butter,mixed vegatables,steak,and chicken breast

as for training i usually will do 3 sets of 15(20 reps for squats) or pyramids which is what i was taught in high school

im not sure what i am classified as far as ecto,endo,mesmo,like i said i had a real shitty diet and i was a heavy drinker

here are some measurements using tape

wrist- 7 inch
forearm-13inch flexed-13.5inch
arms-15inch flexed-16inch
chest-40inch
waist-37inch(measured this morning)
hips-38inch
thighs-26inch
calf-15

i always thought i was a ecto because i weigh 200pds and i know im no powerhouse and if i was a endo or a mesmo wouldnt my lifts be higher?

**DJSTARER** · 03-02-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB20

whole wheat bread(not the greatest bread because of hfcs

Word. But don't think twice about it....

**MurphMan** · 03-02-2006, 02:54 PM

You could also try to decrease the time inbetween sets....I have had to do this because of a bad accident that kept me from being able to do any real cardio. It's almost like a pseudo circuit training workout session, and will keep your HR up similar to doing cardio..........but beware, you will get tired pretty fast!

JB20 · 03-02-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJSTARER

Word. But don't think twice about it....

what do you mean?

i usually rest 30 seconds to a minute between sets and i lift for about 20 to 30 minutes

**MurphMan** · 03-02-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB20

what do you mean?

i usually rest 30 seconds to a minute between sets and i lift for about 20 to 30 minutes

That's all? How often to you lift? I think this may be your problem. You are not burning ENOUGH cals because of your short workouts..........My light days are 30-40minutes of weights, heavy days 60-75.

JB20 · 03-02-2006, 03:28 PM

here's what i do

monday-deadlift,shoulder shrugs,shoulder press
tuesday-bench,curls
wed-barbell row,one arm row
thur-pull ups
fridat-squats
sat-off(thinking of adding cardio)
sunday-off(thinking of adding cardio)

i thought 45 mintues of working out was catabolic?
like i said i think i might be an ecto and i read less is more for my body type if that is what i am

and here's what im getting from my diet

protein-307 carbs- 305 fat-87.5 calories-3439(thinking of dropping to 3000

anyone know how to do ratios?

**MurphMan** · 03-02-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB20

here's what i do

monday-deadlift,shoulder shrugs,shoulder press
tuesday-bench,curls
wed-barbell row,one arm row
thur-pull ups
fridat-squats
sat-off(thinking of adding cardio)
sunday-off(thinking of adding cardio)

i thought 45 mintues of working out was catabolic?
like i said i think i might be an ecto and i read less is more for my body type if that is what i am

and here's what im getting from my diet

protein-307 carbs- 305 fat-87.5 calories-3439(thinking of dropping to 3000

anyone know how to do ratios?

45 min of weights is not catabolic. And I think you are eating too many calories, especially for your routine and considering that you are maintaining a relatively high bf%. You also should readjust your macros to include some more quality fat calories, something like 40/30/30 (protein/carbs/fat). So, for a 3K cal diet, it would be 300g protein/225g carbs/100g fat.

JB20 · 03-02-2006, 03:44 PM

how do you figure out diet ratios?

do you think i should change my routine?

**MurphMan** · 03-02-2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB20

how do you figure out diet ratios?

do you think i should change my routine?

Protein and carbs have 4cals/gram while fats have 9cals/gram. So you take the total you want to get to, in this case 3000 and multiply it by the % you want, again, in this case .4 for protein, .3 for carbs and .3 for fats. You end up with 1200/900/900. Next you simply divide each total by the correct number of cals, 1200/4, 900/4 and 900/9.........you end up with 300/225/100. :bigthumbu

Yes, I would increase your time in the gym to 45-60min and go 4x/week.

JB20 · 03-02-2006, 03:57 PM

thanks for your help do you think i should follow a different routine and what do you think about doing cardio on the weekend or should i do cardio after a workout?

**MurphMan** · 03-02-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB20

thanks for your help do you think i should follow a different routine and what do you think about doing cardio on the weekend or should i do cardio after a workout?

If you want to shed some fat, you can do 15 minutes of HIIT after your workouts, by that time you will have burned off your glycogen stores and will be catabolic, which is when you burn the highest ammount of fat. As far as you rroutine, I just think you need to add some more movements, especially on the days when you just do squats and pull-ups. I also don't like that you have two back days back to back, evnthough they are light. I'd combine your rows with your pull-ups, and move a rest day inbetween doing squats. I'm not the best person to ask about routines though, because I have my own that works best for me. I'm disabled and can only do certain lifts and it's been along time since I did any research into it. You should wait for someone like Powerman to chime in.

JB20 · 03-02-2006, 06:34 PM

thanks for your help man. im going to do some hit after my workout today

02-28-2006, 05:10 PM	#1
JB20 Heavy Metal Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 657 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 41	bulking and cardio what is everyone opinion? i have been lifting since 15 but have only made gains for the past 2 years because of my lack of knowledge.i drank almost everyday and had a shitty diet but thanks to bb.com i learned a lot about diet and training.i manage to get up to 200 pds with a bench of 230, squat of 205. and a deadlift of 220 so last summer i decided to cut since i had a gut and i ended up losing a lot of muscle and strenght due to my poor knowledge of cardio. i did cardio in the morning on an empty stomach because i read somewhere that eating in the morning would interupt the fat burning process that happens while you sleep. since i was not happy with my cutting results i decided to bulk back up which i have but the 36 inch waist and 21% bf is still bothering me so i look around the internet and found some articles that said you can do cardio during bulking up to 3 times a weeks thirty minutes each time and you will not lose muscle as long as you keep your calories up.i was thinking of trying this but i thought i would ask you guys first

03-01-2006, 12:41 AM	#2
nextteenamateur Pro Stature Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clemson, SC Posts: 336 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	I would do cardio at least 4x a week if you are at 21%. Do it on an empty stomach first thing in the morning. Also, make sure your diet is in check. You shouldn't have trouble losing fat and not muscle. __________________ My X-Factor bulk log: http://www.ironmass.com/forums/showt...d=1#post106271 My LipidFX log: http://ironmass.com/forums/showthrea...6900#post96900 ********* Discount Code for 5% Off: SPB296** RAW TESTED LIFTS: Dead - 455 Squat - 405 Bench - 230 (getting up there) Going for an 1100 pound total and beyond

03-01-2006, 12:56 AM	#3
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,203 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	I think cardio 3x a week or more is damn near essential IF you are endomorphic. It would not be good for an ecto. nta, he just said he has bad results from fasted cardio, why would you tell him to do it again? __________________ http://loseover100lbs.com/misc-f7.html

03-01-2006, 01:42 AM	#4
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,103 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 115	Original Poster: You seem to have (as Skel hinted) some endo qualities to ya. Personally, I say NAY to cardio on a bulk, but you may want to keep a regiment year round. Give it a try, if you are not gaining, eat more, or stop doing cardio. What type of routine are you on anyway? Don't forget your multi __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

03-01-2006, 02:19 AM	#5
EME Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,265 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	I personally don't do any cardio during mass building phases. I have to eat a LOT of calories and carbs to make good gains and I need every single calorie I eat to go to building muscle. I don't stay ripped during mass building, but I also don't have problems putting on tons of fat. I do smooth out and my bodyfat does increase, but that is part of my plan, and I know it will come off again when the time comes. This is another one of those questions that there is no perfect answer for. It really depends a lot on your particular body, and how it responds when you are taking in higher calories. From a purely health perspective, sure cardio is great for you, and there are certainly merits to doing it year round. However, for more than half the year, I am usually doing anywhere from 10-14 cardio sessions per week. During the few months that I drop the cardio for the sake of building mass, I have never seen any significant health problems. Neither my cholesterol or blood pressure go up significantly, and I have suffered no ill effects from it. So, ultimately you have to decide what is best for you. If you are an ecto and trying to build mass, I say completely drop it for at least 12 weeks during your peek mass building phase. Then go back to at least alternating periods of training where you include it, and take it out. If you gain weight more easily, experiment with an amount that allows you keep you fat gain in check, but still make mass gains. It's really all about figuring out what works best for you. - EME __________________ PhysiqueFXonline - Online Nutrition and Training with Michael and Kendra Elias: www.MichaelandKendra.com Team Molecular Nutrition Creative Director FAME Media Group / World Natural Sports Organization Editor-In-Chief FAME Magazine www.FAMEWorldTour.com

03-02-2006, 02:03 PM	#6
JB20 Heavy Metal Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 657 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 41	my diet is fine. i eat the same thing everyone else does oatmeal(where most of my carbs come from),eggs,tuna,whole wheat bread(not the greatest bread because of hfcs but i eat it after a workout for the insulin spike)fat free cottage cheese,fat free cheese,natural peanut butter,mixed vegatables,steak,and chicken breast as for training i usually will do 3 sets of 15(20 reps for squats) or pyramids which is what i was taught in high school im not sure what i am classified as far as ecto,endo,mesmo,like i said i had a real shitty diet and i was a heavy drinker here are some measurements using tape wrist- 7 inch forearm-13inch flexed-13.5inch arms-15inch flexed-16inch chest-40inch waist-37inch(measured this morning) hips-38inch thighs-26inch calf-15 i always thought i was a ecto because i weigh 200pds and i know im no powerhouse and if i was a endo or a mesmo wouldnt my lifts be higher?

03-02-2006, 02:54 PM	#8
MurphMan Robomoderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,598 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 26	You could also try to decrease the time inbetween sets....I have had to do this because of a bad accident that kept me from being able to do any real cardio. It's almost like a pseudo circuit training workout session, and will keep your HR up similar to doing cardio..........but beware, you will get tired pretty fast!

03-02-2006, 03:28 PM	#11
JB20 Heavy Metal Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 657 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 41	here's what i do monday-deadlift,shoulder shrugs,shoulder press tuesday-bench,curls wed-barbell row,one arm row thur-pull ups fridat-squats sat-off(thinking of adding cardio) sunday-off(thinking of adding cardio) i thought 45 mintues of working out was catabolic? like i said i think i might be an ecto and i read less is more for my body type if that is what i am and here's what im getting from my diet protein-307 carbs- 305 fat-87.5 calories-3439(thinking of dropping to 3000 anyone know how to do ratios? __________________ http://sonybmg.com/musicbox/video/aliceinchains/

03-02-2006, 03:44 PM	#13
JB20 Heavy Metal Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 657 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 41	how do you figure out diet ratios? do you think i should change my routine? __________________ http://sonybmg.com/musicbox/video/aliceinchains/

03-02-2006, 03:57 PM	#15
JB20 Heavy Metal Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 657 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 41	thanks for your help do you think i should follow a different routine and what do you think about doing cardio on the weekend or should i do cardio after a workout? __________________ http://sonybmg.com/musicbox/video/aliceinchains/

03-02-2006, 06:34 PM	#17
JB20 Heavy Metal Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 657 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 41	thanks for your help man. im going to do some hit after my workout today __________________ http://sonybmg.com/musicbox/video/aliceinchains/