CUT THE CRAP! Melting Point/Basic Cuts Log

**DarkFalcon** · 03-16-2006, 09:26 AM

DarkFalcon's MP/BC Log

Melting Point Product information:
http://designersupps.com/static_site...ltingpoint.php

Basic Cuts Product information:
http://designersupps.com/product_writeups/Basiccuts.pdf

Personal Stats

Sex: Male
Age: 36
Height: 5'9"
Weight: 175lbs
Body Fat: 14.39%
Body Type: Ecto-Meso

Measurements

Arms 16.25"
Calves 15.5"
Thighs 25"
Neck 16.25"
Waist 35"
Chest 43"

30 Day Cycle

Start 03/15/06
Finish 04/13/06

Dosing Basic Cut's

2 In the Morning
2 Before Workout

Dosing Melting Point

2 In the Morning
2 Before Workout
2 Second last meal

Training Split

Day 1 - Shoulders/Hit Cardio
Day 2 - Bi's/Tri's/Abs/Moderate Cardio
Day 3 - Legs/Moderate Cardio
Day 4 - off
Day 5 - Chest/abs/Moderate Cardio
Day 6 - Back/Hit Cardio
Day 7 - Off

Diet

Meal 1 - Go Lean Cereal w/ Milk, OJ, Tbls Flax Oil, Banana, Egg Whites
Meal 2 - 8oz Chicken Breast, 1tbls Peanut Butter
Meal 3 - 1 can Tuna, 1/2 cup of Oatmeal
Meal 4 - FF Turkey on Whole Grain Bread, Spinich, Mustard
Meal 5 - Varied, will list daily
Workout- 35g Gatorade Powder + EAA
Meal 6 - 2 Scoops Whey in 8oz Milk
Meal 7 - 1/2 cup of Cottage Cheese, 3 Super Concentrate Fish Oil Caps

Average Daily Breakdown
Calories Eaten Today
Total: 2914
source grams cals %total
Fat: 73 658 24%
Sat: 22 194 7%
Poly: 23 210 8%
Mono: 19 172 6%
Carbs: 243 867 31%
Fiber: 27 0 0%
Protein: 310 1241 45%

Training Experience

Been lifting on and off since I was 14 most off though..lol. Decided to get serious a few years ago and finally break through the plateau of 150lbs I always hit so I decided to learn what I was doing wrong. Within 1 year I managed to go from 142lbs to 175lbs. I reached a high of 192 last year setting a ton of personal best's along the way. I kind of burnt out from years of pushing myself and let myself go over these last 4 months gaining a lot of fat on my midsection and losing a lot of size. I'm currently at 175lbs and my strength is still good but about 20% off my peak. I've used various supplements in the past including ph's but this will be my first time using any fat burning supplements.

Concurrent Supplements

Multi
Vit E
Flax Oil
Sci Fit CEE
Universal EAA
Vit B50
Weber SC Fish Oil Caps

Short Term Goal: 180lbs@11% bf or less

Long Term Goal: 190lbs at <10% Body Fat

Final Notes

The goal of this trial is to reduce bf% while adding lbm. Calories will be kept near TDEE and I expect to gain some lbm from the switch to a high protein diet coupled with increased intensity in my workouts and the addition of CEE. The CEE will be dropped just prior to the end of the 30 days to allow for the reduction of any water it causes me to hold. Pictures have been taken and the before and after pics will be posted together at the end. Feel free to comment and critique. I'd like to thank uhockey for selecting me for this trial and Rob and Designer Supplements for getting the product out to me. I hope you enjoy my log.

**DarkFalcon** · 03-16-2006, 09:29 AM

Today’s Workout-Shoulders:
3 mins high intensity hand bike warm up
1 set 15 reps db press warm up

Smith Presses: 4 sets – 10, 8, 8, 6
Side Lateral Raises Machine: 3 sets – 10, 8, 8, 6
Reverse fly rear delt machine - 10, 8, 8, 6-into drop set failure
Hise Shrugs- 15, 8, 8, 8, 15

20 min HIT cardio to finish

Today's Meal 5:
Had a delicious lean beef stroganoff with whole wheat noodles. :eat: The nutritional breakdown is as follows..
Calories Eaten Today
Total: 409
source grams cals %total
Fat: 12 111 29%
Sat: 4 40 10%
Poly: 1 7 2%
Mono: 5 43 11%
Carbs: 28 94 24%
Fiber: 5 0 0%
Protein: 46 183 47%

Thoughts:
Well today was day one so in order to assess my tolerance of both MP and BC I took half the recommended dose. So I had once BC with meal 1 and one MP. Within 30 mins or so I felt a little warmer and more alert, had a bit of the jitter's as well but nothing major. Took my second single cap of both about 45 mins prior to my workout and felt very energized and good throughout. I took my final MP with meal 6 to no noticeable effect. Overall the first day went well and my workout was strong and effective.

dnyc99 · 03-16-2006, 09:36 AM

Awesome babe!!! :winkthumb

I know you will get fabulous results!!

You are one helluva hottie now...so forgive me if I can't stop

over your end results!!

Now cut the crap!!

~D~

**DarkFalcon** · 03-16-2006, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnyc99

Awesome babe!!! :winkthumb

I know you will get fabulous results!!

You are one helluva hottie now...so forgive me if I can't stop

over your end results!!

Now cut the crap!!

~D~

lol..thanks babe! :blush: I'm pretty excited about this trial so I'm highly motivated!! The crap has been cut!

:p

**Peaked_18** · 03-16-2006, 10:18 AM

Post the workouts DF, I would love to see what your doing. Good start so far as well! Good luck!

**EME** · 03-16-2006, 11:08 AM

Good Luck with your Log DF.

I'm looking forward to following your progress! :bigthumbu

- EME

Built · 03-16-2006, 07:46 PM

Hi there.

The gf asked me to drop by to offer up my .02. She can tell you I'm not just dropping in to be an ass.

Okay?

Now, protein and fat are sufficient; too much cardio to begin with (you're not leaving yourself room to ramp up, and cardio is NOT required for a cut, much less a slow recomposition), ditch the OJ entirely - it has a sugar profile that's slightly worse than coca cola and NOBODY should EVER be drinking juice. You want fruit, eat it - don't drink it.

Flax oil isn't all that great - the body has to convert it into the usable form of omega-3, where fish oil is already there. Take more fish oil. I take 10g daily, and you outweigh me by at least 30 lbs.

For partioning like you're suggesting, you might consider a strategy of staying extremely low carb until the workout window, where you'll have carbohydrate available during the time when your muscle cells are preferentially insulin sensitive relative to your fat cells, but you induce full body insulin resistance during the rest of the time (which is good because your fat cells are insulin resistant then, too). This would involve macronutrient timing and carb cycling, should you be interested. I would suggest reading the converging methology (with differing theories of how this works) of Berardi and McDonald.

Continuing, bodypart training splits such as this are sub-optimal, particularly for unassisted athletes. Not sure if you are or not, but I'm assuming you're natty. If so, I would read up on Cosgrove for a better training strategy.

What rep range will you be using for this, and how are you planning to include periodization into your training?

Finally, what exactly is in these fatburners? The problem with most of them is, in addition to being overly hyped and overpriced, on a slow bulk, which is essentially what you're doing, they induce insulin resistance, which means you'll preferentially partition into fat, not muscle.

There. My welcome has been worn out, I'm sure.

Nice to meet you <weak smile>

**Fitnfirm** · 03-16-2006, 08:24 PM

Oh the long wait it over and now the race in on DF

I will be stalking your log daily! and ummmmm, cough.cough......Wheres the pics

:nosthumbs

**DarkFalcon** · 03-16-2006, 10:40 PM

Hi Built thanks for the well thought out and detailed critique. Nice of you to take that much time to help.

I'll answer you point by point in bold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Now, protein and fat are sufficient; too much cardio to begin with (you're not leaving yourself room to ramp up, and cardio is NOT required for a cut, much less a slow recomposition), ditch the OJ entirely - it has a sugar profile that's slightly worse than coca cola and NOBODY should EVER be drinking juice. You want fruit, eat it - don't drink it.
The cardio is not as abundent as you might think. The moderate days consist of just 15 mins pre-workout to get the blood flowing and muscles warmed up which is something I have always done and enjoyed. The HIT cardio is the only new aspect I'm adding and it's only 2x a week and trust me it has PLENTY of room to ramp up..lol. I'm pretty out of shape cardio wise so it's much needed. The OJ I'm aware of it's sugar profile but I enjoy it for one, it's early in the am so the additional carbs are great for getting me jump started since I don't drink coffee, and it's worth 2 servings of fruit. In short I'm an ecto and don't have to be that anal about my diet that I can't take in one sugar filled drink in a day and worry I'm going to get fat from it.

Flax oil isn't all that great - the body has to convert it into the usable form of omega-3, where fish oil is already there. Take more fish oil. I take 10g daily, and you outweigh me by at least 30 lbs.
This I also know to be true and have posted a very good article about it on this site. I actually dropped the flax for a period of time and went with straight Fish Oil but I have bad joints and found they suffered after I dropped it. Weird? Most likely but even if it's psychological I'll take it. I'd also like to step up my FO intake but cost is an issue.

For partioning like you're suggesting, you might consider a strategy of staying extremely low carb until the workout window, where you'll have carbohydrate available during the time when your muscle cells are preferentially insulin sensitive relative to your fat cells, but you induce full body insulin resistance during the rest of the time (which is good because your fat cells are insulin resistant then, too). This would involve macronutrient timing and carb cycling, should you be interested. I would suggest reading the converging methology (with differing theories of how this works) of Berardi and McDonald.
This is very good advice and something I will look further into. I'm going to move the 1/2 cup of Oatmeal in meal 3 to my post workout meal 6 and leave the tuna solo. The morning carbs I'm keeping for the reason's I stated. I'm reluctant to remove the carbs from the whole grain bread in meal 4 and won't unless I have no progress.

Continuing, bodypart training splits such as this are sub-optimal, particularly for unassisted athletes. Not sure if you are or not, but I'm assuming you're natty. If so, I would read up on Cosgrove for a better training strategy.

What rep range will you be using for this, and how are you planning to include periodization into your training?
For this short 4 week log I'm expecting enough progression through forced reps, drop set's, progressive overload etc.. to prevent any plateauing or stagnation. I read up on Cosgrove's undulating periodization on your recommendation and I found the principles similar to a system I will be switching to in the next few months. I use a 1/2 pyramid rep scheme for all my compound movement's (squat, bench, shoulder press, etc..) and a rep range of 5-8 on my isolation movement's( preacher curls, flyes, rope ext, etc..). I've had fantastic success in the past with this system old school or not.
Finally, what exactly is in these fatburners? The problem with most of them is, in addition to being overly hyped and overpriced, on a slow bulk, which is essentially what you're doing, they induce insulin resistance, which means you'll preferentially partition into fat, not muscle.
I've provided the links in my intro post so you can read up on exactly what these products are. Designer Supplements has a proven track record of producing quality effective supplements and I'm confident the results at the end of the 30 day period will speak for themselves.

There. My welcome has been worn out, I'm sure.

Nice to meet you <weak smile>
Not in the least, I'm happy to have your input and I hope I explained my reasoning behind the choices I've made. It's nice to meet you too built. I've seen your pics and you've done an amazing job with yourself.

**DarkFalcon** · 03-16-2006, 10:44 PM

Thanks EME, peaked, and F&F for the well wishes!

Workout's I will post peaked and the pics will be posted at the end for a good before/after comparison. So your just going to have to stick all the way through and wait!

**Fitnfirm** · 03-16-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFalcon

Thanks EME, peaked, and F&F for the well wishes!

Workout's I will post peaked and the pics will be posted at the end for a good before/after comparison. So your just going to have to stick all the way through and wait!

:rock2: :stickpoke :chainwhip: :blue: :rmad:

Built · 03-16-2006, 11:14 PM

The 15 minutes of pre-workout cardio is, at best, unwise. The best way to warm up for weights is weights. The worst way is with cardio. If you MUST do this, for whatever reason, 3 minutes at the most. I wouldn't do ANY. I want results, and a good workout. I would not do something like this that would compromise my workouts.

Fish oil has been clincally proven to reduce inflammation and improve joint condition. Flax oil is simply inferior. I would urge you to reconsider this strategy. You do need to take a LOT of it - if you were taking 3 fish oil capsules a day, no, you wouldn't have noticed anything from it.

If you're going to follow the macronutrient timing approach, you'll want to move the oj to the meal right before or right after you train. OJ in the morning will increase the inflammation response - with your joint problems, you'll want to reconsider this strategy. Same goes for the banana. And no matter WHAT the oj board will tell you, juice is NEVER equivalent to servings of fruit. It's equivalent to servings of SUGAR.

I'm not convinced orange juice is fundamentally healthier than a coke. At least, not if we're talking about anything but freshly squeezed, which is STILL a really, REALLY easy way to suck back a LOT of sugar:

An 8-ounce serving of orange juice (freshly squeezed, from concentrate, whatever) has about 27g of carbohydrate, that breaks down as follows:

Total Carbohydrate 26.8g

...Dietary Fiber 0.5g
...Sugars 20.9g
.....Sucrose 8.617g
.....Glucose 5.826g
.....Fructose 6.375g

An 8-oz serving of coca cola:

Total Carbohydrate 19.2g
...Dietary Fiber 0.0g
...Sugars 14.7g
.....Sucrose 0.488g
.....Glucose 5.368g
.....Fructose 7.857g
.....Lactose 0.788g
.....Maltose 0.488g

source

Basically, if you want fruit, eat fruit - it's fresh, it's raw, it's got fiber, it's good for you.

You LOVE the taste of juice, well, then drink it. But don't convince yourself it's health food. Treat it like any other junk food.

And if you're drinking it for the insulin response, there are better sugars for that task - namely a 50/50 blend of malto and dex, or your powdered gatorade.

I briefly tried reading the links. What are the ingredients in those products? Like I said, fatburners have their place - but a controlled bulk isn't one of them. It will make you partition toward fat more than you would have - EXACTLY what you DON'T want.

Built · 03-16-2006, 11:14 PM

PS thanks for the props.

Lift · 03-16-2006, 11:17 PM

Awesome

best of luck DF

Bootysweat! · 03-17-2006, 12:57 AM

Hi Dark Falcon

waveysmile: I'm popping in to wish you the best of luck with your goals!!!

Now chop chop lets see some workouts :dumbells:&:cam:pictures!

Sorry I like being bossy! :devilwhip

uhockey · 03-17-2006, 01:58 AM

Rob is in England.....he got nothing out to you.

I'm watching.

03-16-2006, 09:26 AM	#1
DarkFalcon I've got a RAGING clue! Join Date: May 2005 Location: dnyc99's cleaning staff Posts: 11,511 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 299	CUT THE CRAP! Melting Point/Basic Cuts Log DarkFalcon's MP/BC Log Melting Point Product information: http://designersupps.com/static_site...ltingpoint.php Basic Cuts Product information: http://designersupps.com/product_writeups/Basiccuts.pdf Personal Stats Sex: Male Age: 36 Height: 5'9" Weight: 175lbs Body Fat: 14.39% Body Type: Ecto-Meso Measurements Arms 16.25" Calves 15.5" Thighs 25" Neck 16.25" Waist 35" Chest 43" 30 Day Cycle Start 03/15/06 Finish 04/13/06 Dosing Basic Cut's 2 In the Morning 2 Before Workout Dosing Melting Point 2 In the Morning 2 Before Workout 2 Second last meal Training Split Day 1 - Shoulders/Hit Cardio Day 2 - Bi's/Tri's/Abs/Moderate Cardio Day 3 - Legs/Moderate Cardio Day 4 - off Day 5 - Chest/abs/Moderate Cardio Day 6 - Back/Hit Cardio Day 7 - Off Diet Meal 1 - Go Lean Cereal w/ Milk, OJ, Tbls Flax Oil, Banana, Egg Whites Meal 2 - 8oz Chicken Breast, 1tbls Peanut Butter Meal 3 - 1 can Tuna, 1/2 cup of Oatmeal Meal 4 - FF Turkey on Whole Grain Bread, Spinich, Mustard Meal 5 - Varied, will list daily Workout- 35g Gatorade Powder + EAA Meal 6 - 2 Scoops Whey in 8oz Milk Meal 7 - 1/2 cup of Cottage Cheese, 3 Super Concentrate Fish Oil Caps Average Daily Breakdown Calories Eaten Today Total: 2914 source grams cals %total Fat: 73 658 24% Sat: 22 194 7% Poly: 23 210 8% Mono: 19 172 6% Carbs: 243 867 31% Fiber: 27 0 0% Protein: 310 1241 45% Training Experience Been lifting on and off since I was 14 most off though..lol. Decided to get serious a few years ago and finally break through the plateau of 150lbs I always hit so I decided to learn what I was doing wrong. Within 1 year I managed to go from 142lbs to 175lbs. I reached a high of 192 last year setting a ton of personal best's along the way. I kind of burnt out from years of pushing myself and let myself go over these last 4 months gaining a lot of fat on my midsection and losing a lot of size. I'm currently at 175lbs and my strength is still good but about 20% off my peak. I've used various supplements in the past including ph's but this will be my first time using any fat burning supplements. Concurrent Supplements Multi Vit E Flax Oil Sci Fit CEE Universal EAA Vit B50 Weber SC Fish Oil Caps Short Term Goal: 180lbs@11% bf or less Long Term Goal: 190lbs at <10% Body Fat Final Notes The goal of this trial is to reduce bf% while adding lbm. Calories will be kept near TDEE and I expect to gain some lbm from the switch to a high protein diet coupled with increased intensity in my workouts and the addition of CEE. The CEE will be dropped just prior to the end of the 30 days to allow for the reduction of any water it causes me to hold. Pictures have been taken and the before and after pics will be posted together at the end. Feel free to comment and critique. I'd like to thank uhockey for selecting me for this trial and Rob and Designer Supplements for getting the product out to me. I hope you enjoy my log. Last edited by DarkFalcon : 04-16-2006 at 10:41 PM.

03-16-2006, 09:29 AM	#2
DarkFalcon I've got a RAGING clue! Join Date: May 2005 Location: dnyc99's cleaning staff Posts: 11,511 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 299	Day 1 Today’s Workout-Shoulders: 3 mins high intensity hand bike warm up 1 set 15 reps db press warm up Smith Presses: 4 sets – 10, 8, 8, 6 Side Lateral Raises Machine: 3 sets – 10, 8, 8, 6 Reverse fly rear delt machine - 10, 8, 8, 6-into drop set failure Hise Shrugs- 15, 8, 8, 8, 15 20 min HIT cardio to finish Today's Meal 5: Had a delicious lean beef stroganoff with whole wheat noodles. :eat: The nutritional breakdown is as follows.. Calories Eaten Today Total: 409 source grams cals %total Fat: 12 111 29% Sat: 4 40 10% Poly: 1 7 2% Mono: 5 43 11% Carbs: 28 94 24% Fiber: 5 0 0% Protein: 46 183 47% Thoughts: Well today was day one so in order to assess my tolerance of both MP and BC I took half the recommended dose. So I had once BC with meal 1 and one MP. Within 30 mins or so I felt a little warmer and more alert, had a bit of the jitter's as well but nothing major. Took my second single cap of both about 45 mins prior to my workout and felt very energized and good throughout. I took my final MP with meal 6 to no noticeable effect. Overall the first day went well and my workout was strong and effective. Last edited by DarkFalcon : 03-17-2006 at 06:36 AM.

03-16-2006, 11:08 AM	#6
EME Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,265 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	Good Luck with your Log DF. I'm looking forward to following your progress! :bigthumbu - EME __________________ PhysiqueFXonline - Online Nutrition and Training with Michael and Kendra Elias: www.MichaelandKendra.com Team Molecular Nutrition Creative Director FAME Media Group / World Natural Sports Organization Editor-In-Chief FAME Magazine www.FAMEWorldTour.com

03-16-2006, 11:17 PM	#14
Lift I Love IronMass.Com Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 825 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 11	Awesome best of luck DF __________________ MrLiftALot@hotmail.com "King Kong Ain't Got Sh*t On Me..."

03-17-2006, 01:58 AM	#16
uhockey Pro Stature Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 82 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	Rob is in England.....he got nothing out to you. I'm watching. __________________ Dosis sola facit venenum "All things are toxic; only the dose determines the poison" uhockey@designersupps.com www.designersupps.com

03-16-2006, 09:36 AM	#3
dnyc99 IMPC Contestant Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,025 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 182	Awesome babe!!! :winkthumb I know you will get fabulous results!! You are one helluva hottie now...so forgive me if I can't stop over your end results!! Now cut the crap!! ~D~

03-16-2006, 10:18 AM	#5
Peaked_18 a la commode Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,247 Recipes: 2 Rep Power: 96	Post the workouts DF, I would love to see what your doing. Good start so far as well! Good luck!

03-16-2006, 07:46 PM	#7
Built New Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 17 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	Hi there. The gf asked me to drop by to offer up my .02. She can tell you I'm not just dropping in to be an ass. Okay? Now, protein and fat are sufficient; too much cardio to begin with (you're not leaving yourself room to ramp up, and cardio is NOT required for a cut, much less a slow recomposition), ditch the OJ entirely - it has a sugar profile that's slightly worse than coca cola and NOBODY should EVER be drinking juice. You want fruit, eat it - don't drink it. Flax oil isn't all that great - the body has to convert it into the usable form of omega-3, where fish oil is already there. Take more fish oil. I take 10g daily, and you outweigh me by at least 30 lbs. For partioning like you're suggesting, you might consider a strategy of staying extremely low carb until the workout window, where you'll have carbohydrate available during the time when your muscle cells are preferentially insulin sensitive relative to your fat cells, but you induce full body insulin resistance during the rest of the time (which is good because your fat cells are insulin resistant then, too). This would involve macronutrient timing and carb cycling, should you be interested. I would suggest reading the converging methology (with differing theories of how this works) of Berardi and McDonald. Continuing, bodypart training splits such as this are sub-optimal, particularly for unassisted athletes. Not sure if you are or not, but I'm assuming you're natty. If so, I would read up on Cosgrove for a better training strategy. What rep range will you be using for this, and how are you planning to include periodization into your training? Finally, what exactly is in these fatburners? The problem with most of them is, in addition to being overly hyped and overpriced, on a slow bulk, which is essentially what you're doing, they induce insulin resistance, which means you'll preferentially partition into fat, not muscle. There. My welcome has been worn out, I'm sure. Nice to meet you <weak smile>

03-16-2006, 08:24 PM	#8
Fitnfirm Spanky Doodle ! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Muscle Land Posts: 1,821 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 47	Oh the long wait it over and now the race in on DF I will be stalking your log daily! and ummmmm, cough.cough......Wheres the pics :nosthumbs

03-16-2006, 10:44 PM	#10
DarkFalcon I've got a RAGING clue! Join Date: May 2005 Location: dnyc99's cleaning staff Posts: 11,511 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 299	Thanks EME, peaked, and F&F for the well wishes! Workout's I will post peaked and the pics will be posted at the end for a good before/after comparison. So your just going to have to stick all the way through and wait!

03-16-2006, 11:14 PM	#12
Built New Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 17 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	The 15 minutes of pre-workout cardio is, at best, unwise. The best way to warm up for weights is weights. The worst way is with cardio. If you MUST do this, for whatever reason, 3 minutes at the most. I wouldn't do ANY. I want results, and a good workout. I would not do something like this that would compromise my workouts. Fish oil has been clincally proven to reduce inflammation and improve joint condition. Flax oil is simply inferior. I would urge you to reconsider this strategy. You do need to take a LOT of it - if you were taking 3 fish oil capsules a day, no, you wouldn't have noticed anything from it. If you're going to follow the macronutrient timing approach, you'll want to move the oj to the meal right before or right after you train. OJ in the morning will increase the inflammation response - with your joint problems, you'll want to reconsider this strategy. Same goes for the banana. And no matter WHAT the oj board will tell you, juice is NEVER equivalent to servings of fruit. It's equivalent to servings of SUGAR. I'm not convinced orange juice is fundamentally healthier than a coke. At least, not if we're talking about anything but freshly squeezed, which is STILL a really, REALLY easy way to suck back a LOT of sugar: An 8-ounce serving of orange juice (freshly squeezed, from concentrate, whatever) has about 27g of carbohydrate, that breaks down as follows: Total Carbohydrate 26.8g ...Dietary Fiber 0.5g ...Sugars 20.9g .....Sucrose 8.617g .....Glucose 5.826g .....Fructose 6.375g An 8-oz serving of coca cola: Total Carbohydrate 19.2g ...Dietary Fiber 0.0g ...Sugars 14.7g .....Sucrose 0.488g .....Glucose 5.368g .....Fructose 7.857g .....Lactose 0.788g .....Maltose 0.488g source Basically, if you want fruit, eat fruit - it's fresh, it's raw, it's got fiber, it's good for you. You LOVE the taste of juice, well, then drink it. But don't convince yourself it's health food. Treat it like any other junk food. And if you're drinking it for the insulin response, there are better sugars for that task - namely a 50/50 blend of malto and dex, or your powdered gatorade. I briefly tried reading the links. What are the ingredients in those products? Like I said, fatburners have their place - but a controlled bulk isn't one of them. It will make you partition toward fat more than you would have - EXACTLY what you DON'T want.

03-17-2006, 12:57 AM	#15
Bootysweat! Pro Stature Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 364 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 7	Hi Dark Falcon waveysmile: I'm popping in to wish you the best of luck with your goals!!! Now chop chop lets see some workouts :dumbells:&:cam:pictures! Sorry I like being bossy! :devilwhip

03-17-2006, 07:07 AM	#17
DarkFalcon I've got a RAGING clue! Join Date: May 2005 Location: dnyc99's cleaning staff Posts: 11,511 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 299