Need some help, hit that "plateau"

Diogenes · 10-06-2006, 08:48 AM

ok so i need a little help guys.

Ive recently lost A LOT of weight, and it seems like ive hit that "plateau" on the last 25 lbs. (i know, everyone else does too). My question is how should i change my routienes to best help me burn the remainder of the fat and build muscle? My current work out routiene is 5 nights a week (late at night, its the only time i have free) and i have a personal trainer, but i really need to ramp it up to get to the point i want to be at. I'm gaining a good amount of strength, and some mass, but im stuck on this last little bit of fat. My eating habits were poor, (no breakfast, 1 large meal, i shake after working out) but not I've changed them (5-6 meals a day, at least 2 of which are protiene shakes, all are centered around mostly protiene rich foods).

so, how should i tailor my diet/exercise routiene to best facilitate becomming the best physical specimen i can possibly be?

**A.FreeRadical** · 10-06-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes

so, how should i tailor my diet/exercise routiene to best facilitate becomming the best physical specimen i can possibly be?

You will need to incorporate feeding at maintenance levels every 3 or 4 days to restore your leptin levels. Leptin is the hormone that, when depleted, signals your body to go into starvation mode. This slows your metabolism, protects fat stores and, in the extreme, will shut down non-vital body functions. The last 25 lbs will be more difficult to lose. You may find that you can only lose 1 lb. per week.

Some tips:

Eat a clean diet. (avoid sugars, refined foods and unhealthy fats)
Drink lots of water
Weight training will help you to keep muscle. Do cardio to burn extra calories.
Have a 500-1000 caloric deficit 5 days per week.
Eat at maintenance (no caloric deficit) 2 days per week.
Eat lots of protein. Get sufficient carbs from whole grains, oatmeal, greens and fibrous vegetables.
Eat good fats. Olive oil, nuts, peanut butter are good choices.
Avoid eating out as much as possible. You can't control your dietary intake if you don't know what is in the food you are eating.

Good luck! You have done well so far.

*

**Peaked_18** · 10-06-2006, 01:09 PM

Don't forget refeed days aswell.

Diogenes · 10-06-2006, 06:21 PM

could you go into detail on the "refeed" days and "maintainance feeding"?

also, as for when i work out, is swimming better than running or vice a versa?

**madman911** · 10-06-2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

ok so i need a little help guys.

Ive recently lost A LOT of weight, and it seems like ive hit that "plateau" on the last 25 lbs. (i know, everyone else does too).

Have you calculated your maintenance calories? Do you count calories? How steep is your caloric deficit? How many grams of carbs do you eat and when do you eat them? Sorry to throw all of these questions at you, but if you do not know the answers to these questions, then a fat loss plateau wouldn't suprise me. I'm just trying to gauge where you're at.

Quote:

My question is how should i change my routienes to best help me burn the remainder of the fat and build muscle? My current work out routiene is 5 nights a week (late at night, its the only time i have free) and i have a personal trainer, but i really need to ramp it up to get to the point i want to be at.

For one, you cannot burn fat and build muscle at the same time, it just doesn't work that way. When you first start a training routine and diet you can experience some muscle gain while losing fat, but don't expect that to continue or think of it as normal. While dieting to lose fat, the best you can hope for is to maintain most of your muscle mass. As you lose fat, you will appear more muscular and people often confuse this with an increase in the actual size of their muscles. 80-90% of your results in the fat loss department depend on your diet and not so much on your training routine. Of course you should lift weights to maintain muscle and do cardio to accelerate fat loss. For anyone on a fat loss plan, I would recommend 30-40 minutes of cardio 4 to 5 times a week, preferably done in the morning or otherwise after lifting. Never do cardio fasted, at least have some protein prior. Not to dump on your personal trainer, but most of them aren't very good, especially when it comes to nutrition advice.

Quote:

My eating habits were poor, (no breakfast, 1 large meal, i shake after working out) but not I've changed them (5-6 meals a day, at least 2 of which are protiene shakes, all are centered around mostly protiene rich foods).

High protein intake is usually not an issue with fat loss. It's more important to analyze your carb consumption in regards to how many carbs, what sources of carbs you're eating and when you eat them. Carb considerations are especially critical for people with an endomorphic somatotype (body type that stores fat very easily, tendency towards being overweight). Endomorphs are typically insulin sensitive, which means they efficiently store fat if their carbs aren't controlled.

As for refeeds, a refeed day is when you eat additional carbohydrates to take in a maintenance or slightly above maintenance level of calories. This is very necessary for endomorphs because they usually lose fat most effectively by restricting carb intake. The days of higher carbs refills glycogen stores completely and results in the release of leptin, a hormone that prevents the starvation response. If you're body is in starvation mode, that can be another explaination for a fat loss plateau.

Shed more light on your situation and advice will follow.

wildman1717 · 10-07-2006, 04:01 AM

Good sound advice.

Diogenes · 10-07-2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman911

Have you calculated your maintenance calories? Do you count calories? How steep is your caloric deficit? How many grams of carbs do you eat and when do you eat them? Sorry to throw all of these questions at you, but if you do not know the answers to these questions, then a fat loss plateau wouldn't suprise me. I'm just trying to gauge where you're at.

i havent done any of that, could you help me figure out how to do so?
when i eat carbs, its usually in low amounts, IE a corn tortilla or the sourdough in a tuna sandwhich.

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman911

For one, you cannot burn fat and build muscle at the same time, it just doesn't work that way. When you first start a training routine and diet you can experience some muscle gain while losing fat, but don't expect that to continue or think of it as normal. While dieting to lose fat, the best you can hope for is to maintain most of your muscle mass. As you lose fat, you will appear more muscular and people often confuse this with an increase in the actual size of their muscles. 80-90% of your results in the fat loss department depend on your diet and not so much on your training routine. Of course you should lift weights to maintain muscle and do cardio to accelerate fat loss. For anyone on a fat loss plan, I would recommend 30-40 minutes of cardio 4 to 5 times a week, preferably done in the morning or otherwise after lifting. Never do cardio fasted, at least have some protein prior. Not to dump on your personal trainer, but most of them aren't very good, especially when it comes to nutrition advice.

my current routiene is the following:
1.5 miles on the treadmill to warm up @ 7.5 mph
arms/shoulders on monday wednesday
chest/back on tuesday thursday
legs friday (always had large strong legs)
6 sets of hanging leg lifts(monday wednesday friday)
150 crunches on the swedish ball(daily)
3 miles on the stationary bike @ 110 RPM @ resistance level 10 (daily)

obviously its a lot of work, but i feel like im working against myself, cause im not getting anywhere anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman911

High protein intake is usually not an issue with fat loss. It's more important to analyze your carb consumption in regards to how many carbs, what sources of carbs you're eating and when you eat them. Carb considerations are especially critical for people with an endomorphic somatotype (body type that stores fat very easily, tendency towards being overweight). Endomorphs are typically insulin sensitive, which means they efficiently store fat if their carbs aren't controlled.

I'm norweigan, 6'4" , easily gain weight. spot on guess there madman911

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman911

As for refeeds, a refeed day is when you eat additional carbohydrates to take in a maintenance or slightly above maintenance level of calories. This is very necessary for endomorphs because they usually lose fat most effectively by restricting carb intake. The days of higher carbs refills glycogen stores completely and results in the release of leptin, a hormone that prevents the starvation response. If you're body is in starvation mode, that can be another explaination for a fat loss plateau.

Shed more light on your situation and advice will follow.

could you go into a little more detail on the types of carbs and which ones i should be focusing on?

**romanaz** · 10-07-2006, 11:16 PM

you want all natural complex carbs. like someone on these boards said not to long ago "if it doesn't occur in nature, dont eat it." Try to stick to that. Fruits and veggies should be your carb intake. Also, nuts are a fun addition to any diet. :-D

godspeed my man, we will make it to shred city sooner or later!

**madman911** · 10-08-2006, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romanaz

you want all natural complex carbs. like someone on these boards said not to long ago "if it doesn't occur in nature, dont eat it." Try to stick to that. Fruits and veggies should be your carb intake. Also, nuts are a fun addition to any diet. :-D

godspeed my man, we will make it to shred city sooner or later!

Not bad advice, but not entirely correct either. It's a good thing to eat simple carbs at certain times, such as immediately post-workout. Fruits and veggies are not the best carb sources, they are essential because fiber is very beneficial to health, but oats and rice are excellent carbs, as are potatoes. Those kinds of carbs are essential for refeeds, fruits and veggies won't get your leptin going. Nuts are great, but their intake must be very controlled because they are extremely calorie dense. If you eat a full handful of nuts, you'll blow your fat macros and go way over your target calories. IMO nuts are better for bulking than cutting.

Diogenes: I'll give you a detailed response tomorrow. First thoughts, I'd say you are way overdoing the cardio, you must calculate calories and set up a good meal plan with the right carbs in the right places. We'll get you on track.

**madman911** · 10-08-2006, 11:42 PM

Okay Diogene, this info will help you get started:

First off, to determine your caloric needs, go to http://www.michaelelias.com , click on the basal metabolic rate calculator link in the bottom right hand corner. Click on the button titled "cutting" and download the excel spreadsheet. Michael Elias has set up a nice calculator that will take you through all the steps in determining how many calories you should be consuming to lose fat. It may be off a bit depending on your metabolism, but in general it will work very well.

When it comes to the the macro percentages, I recommend 50% protein, 30% carbohydrates and 20% fat for endomorphs. So the spreadsheet will tell you how many grams of each you need to consume.

Protein:

Your best protein sources are whey protein, egg whites, chicken, tuna, and lean beef. Spread your protein intake throughout the day, every 3 hours you should be consuming protein.

Fats:

For fats, you want to stick with sources of essential fatty acids, such as flax seed oil, fish oil, and peanut butter. When cutting, you're low fat consumption will only allow a couple of meals that include a tablespoon of flax or fish oil (or 14 caps of either oil) or a tablespoon of peanut butter, natural peanut butter is best, but the regular stuff won't kill you either. Most of your meals will be essentially fat free. I don't think that the timing of the fats is all that critical, but many people recommend avoiding consuming fats with higher carb meals, as the insulin release will result in efficient storage of dietary fats.

Carbs:

I'd suggest eating 20% of your carbs at your breakfast in the form of oats or whole grain source. Have 20% of your daily carbs about 45 minutes to 1 hour prior to your workout, in the form of a complex carb source (rice, potato, oats, whole grain, maybe some fruit), then another 30% of your carbs immediately following your workout in the form of simple carbs (dextrose, sugar, or gatorade powder). Your post workout shake should contain the simple carbs, 30-40 grams of protein, and I also highly recommend branched chain amino acids, enough BCAA to provide 5-6 grams of the specific BCAA leucine. The remaining 30% of your carbs are spread throughout your other meals and should mainly be in the form of fibrous veggies, not starches or whole grains.

Refeeds:

Two days a week eat at your maintenance level of calories and consume greater amounts of carbs to achieve the required calorie level. The carbs should be oats, potatoes, rice, whole grain... a complex carb source. You can spread them out throughout the day, but a great time to consume 40-50 grams of additional carbs is with a meal about 45 minutes after you finish your post-workout shake, as this will have the effect of maximizing the post-workout anabolic rebound. A good place to plan your refeeds is the day before and the day of your leg workout.

Cardio:

As I said, I think you are overdoing the cardio. I would not call running 1.5 miles at 7.5 mph a warm-up. Usually I just use light sets, stretches, and bodyweight exercises for my warm ups; I feel this is more effective at warming up the muscle groups you will be training then cardio. After you are done lifting, hit the cardio for only 30-40 minutes and that's all you should need if your diet is in check. Overdoing the cardio will result in burning muscle tissue for energy. I also suggest drinking a BCAA drink during your cardio to help prevent oxidation (burning) of skeletal muscle proteins.

Okay, so that's enough to get you started. Read all of the stickies in the fat loss forum and ask more questions. One thing I can tell you is that your fat loss results will be directly proportional to the effort you put into planning a good dietary strategy and the discipline you have to stick to that diet. Poor planning and no discipline will yield marginal results, no matter how much you workout.

lisekpl · 10-09-2006, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman911

Okay Diogene, this info will help you get started:

First off, to determine your caloric needs, go to http://www.michaelelias.com , click on the basal metabolic rate calculator link in the bottom right hand corner. Click on the button titled "cutting" and download the excel spreadsheet. Michael Elias has set up a nice calculator that will take you through all the steps in determining how many calories you should be consuming to lose fat. It may be off a bit depending on your metabolism, but in general it will work very well.

When it comes to the the macro percentages, I recommend 50% protein, 30% carbohydrates and 20% fat for endomorphs. So the spreadsheet will tell you how many grams of each you need to consume.

Protein:

Your best protein sources are whey protein, egg whites, chicken, tuna, and lean beef. Spread your protein intake throughout the day, every 3 hours you should be consuming protein.

Fats:

For fats, you want to stick with sources of essential fatty acids, such as flax seed oil, fish oil, and peanut butter. When cutting, you're low fat consumption will only allow a couple of meals that include a tablespoon of flax or fish oil (or 14 caps of either oil) or a tablespoon of peanut butter, natural peanut butter is best, but the regular stuff won't kill you either. Most of your meals will be essentially fat free. I don't think that the timing of the fats is all that critical, but many people recommend avoiding consuming fats with higher carb meals, as the insulin release will result in efficient storage of dietary fats.

Carbs:

I'd suggest eating 20% of your carbs at your breakfast in the form of oats or whole grain source. Have 20% of your daily carbs about 45 minutes to 1 hour prior to your workout, in the form of a complex carb source (rice, potato, oats, whole grain, maybe some fruit), then another 30% of your carbs immediately following your workout in the form of simple carbs (dextrose, sugar, or gatorade powder). Your post workout shake should contain the simple carbs, 30-40 grams of protein, and I also highly recommend branched chain amino acids, enough BCAA to provide 5-6 grams of the specific BCAA leucine. The remaining 30% of your carbs are spread throughout your other meals and should mainly be in the form of fibrous veggies, not starches or whole grains.

Refeeds:

Two days a week eat at your maintenance level of calories and consume greater amounts of carbs to achieve the required calorie level. The carbs should be oats, potatoes, rice, whole grain... a complex carb source. You can spread them out throughout the day, but a great time to consume 40-50 grams of additional carbs is with a meal about 45 minutes after you finish your post-workout shake, as this will have the effect of maximizing the post-workout anabolic rebound. A good place to plan your refeeds is the day before and the day of your leg workout.

Cardio:

As I said, I think you are overdoing the cardio. I would not call running 1.5 miles at 7.5 mph a warm-up. Usually I just use light sets, stretches, and bodyweight exercises for my warm ups; I feel this is more effective at warming up the muscle groups you will be training then cardio. After you are done lifting, hit the cardio for only 30-40 minutes and that's all you should need if your diet is in check. Overdoing the cardio will result in burning muscle tissue for energy. I also suggest drinking a BCAA drink during your cardio to help prevent oxidation (burning) of skeletal muscle proteins.

Okay, so that's enough to get you started. Read all of the stickies in the fat loss forum and ask more questions. One thing I can tell you is that your fat loss results will be directly proportional to the effort you put into planning a good dietary strategy and the discipline you have to stick to that diet. Poor planning and no discipline will yield marginal results, no matter how much you workout.

That's some good info. u posted here, right Diogenes?!

Diogenes · 10-31-2006, 03:26 AM

Thanks for the info guys.
I've evened out my diet, and the fat loss has continued, albeit slower than before. I've also begun to build more muscle as I've seriously upped my protein intake and changed my work out routiene. thanks for the advice fella's.

10-06-2006, 08:48 AM	#1
Diogenes New Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 4 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	Need some help, hit that "plateau" ok so i need a little help guys. Ive recently lost A LOT of weight, and it seems like ive hit that "plateau" on the last 25 lbs. (i know, everyone else does too). My question is how should i change my routienes to best help me burn the remainder of the fat and build muscle? My current work out routiene is 5 nights a week (late at night, its the only time i have free) and i have a personal trainer, but i really need to ramp it up to get to the point i want to be at. I'm gaining a good amount of strength, and some mass, but im stuck on this last little bit of fat. My eating habits were poor, (no breakfast, 1 large meal, i shake after working out) but not I've changed them (5-6 meals a day, at least 2 of which are protiene shakes, all are centered around mostly protiene rich foods). so, how should i tailor my diet/exercise routiene to best facilitate becomming the best physical specimen i can possibly be?

10-08-2006, 11:42 PM	#10
madman911 Metamorphosizing Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Area Posts: 1,531 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 60	Okay Diogene, this info will help you get started: First off, to determine your caloric needs, go to http://www.michaelelias.com , click on the basal metabolic rate calculator link in the bottom right hand corner. Click on the button titled "cutting" and download the excel spreadsheet. Michael Elias has set up a nice calculator that will take you through all the steps in determining how many calories you should be consuming to lose fat. It may be off a bit depending on your metabolism, but in general it will work very well. When it comes to the the macro percentages, I recommend 50% protein, 30% carbohydrates and 20% fat for endomorphs. So the spreadsheet will tell you how many grams of each you need to consume. Protein: Your best protein sources are whey protein, egg whites, chicken, tuna, and lean beef. Spread your protein intake throughout the day, every 3 hours you should be consuming protein. Fats: For fats, you want to stick with sources of essential fatty acids, such as flax seed oil, fish oil, and peanut butter. When cutting, you're low fat consumption will only allow a couple of meals that include a tablespoon of flax or fish oil (or 14 caps of either oil) or a tablespoon of peanut butter, natural peanut butter is best, but the regular stuff won't kill you either. Most of your meals will be essentially fat free. I don't think that the timing of the fats is all that critical, but many people recommend avoiding consuming fats with higher carb meals, as the insulin release will result in efficient storage of dietary fats. Carbs: I'd suggest eating 20% of your carbs at your breakfast in the form of oats or whole grain source. Have 20% of your daily carbs about 45 minutes to 1 hour prior to your workout, in the form of a complex carb source (rice, potato, oats, whole grain, maybe some fruit), then another 30% of your carbs immediately following your workout in the form of simple carbs (dextrose, sugar, or gatorade powder). Your post workout shake should contain the simple carbs, 30-40 grams of protein, and I also highly recommend branched chain amino acids, enough BCAA to provide 5-6 grams of the specific BCAA leucine. The remaining 30% of your carbs are spread throughout your other meals and should mainly be in the form of fibrous veggies, not starches or whole grains. Refeeds: Two days a week eat at your maintenance level of calories and consume greater amounts of carbs to achieve the required calorie level. The carbs should be oats, potatoes, rice, whole grain... a complex carb source. You can spread them out throughout the day, but a great time to consume 40-50 grams of additional carbs is with a meal about 45 minutes after you finish your post-workout shake, as this will have the effect of maximizing the post-workout anabolic rebound. A good place to plan your refeeds is the day before and the day of your leg workout. Cardio: As I said, I think you are overdoing the cardio. I would not call running 1.5 miles at 7.5 mph a warm-up. Usually I just use light sets, stretches, and bodyweight exercises for my warm ups; I feel this is more effective at warming up the muscle groups you will be training then cardio. After you are done lifting, hit the cardio for only 30-40 minutes and that's all you should need if your diet is in check. Overdoing the cardio will result in burning muscle tissue for energy. I also suggest drinking a BCAA drink during your cardio to help prevent oxidation (burning) of skeletal muscle proteins. Okay, so that's enough to get you started. Read all of the stickies in the fat loss forum and ask more questions. One thing I can tell you is that your fat loss results will be directly proportional to the effort you put into planning a good dietary strategy and the discipline you have to stick to that diet. Poor planning and no discipline will yield marginal results, no matter how much you workout. __________________ Millennium Sport Technologies Sponsored Athlete http://www.millenniumsport.net IMPC 2006 Novice Division Champ IMPC 2007 Open Division Champ Never underestimate the power of the bandana.

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10-06-2006, 01:09 PM	#3
Peaked_18 a la commode Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,247 Recipes: 2 Rep Power: 96	Don't forget refeed days aswell.

10-06-2006, 06:21 PM	#4
Diogenes New Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 4 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	could you go into detail on the "refeed" days and "maintainance feeding"? also, as for when i work out, is swimming better than running or vice a versa?

10-07-2006, 04:01 AM	#6
wildman1717 Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 107 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	Good sound advice.

10-31-2006, 03:26 AM	#12
Diogenes New Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 4 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	Thanks for the info guys. I've evened out my diet, and the fat loss has continued, albeit slower than before. I've also begun to build more muscle as I've seriously upped my protein intake and changed my work out routiene. thanks for the advice fella's.