Low Carb vs Lower Calories

GameDayDog · 09-04-2005, 07:05 PM

Well, we have at least 3 nutritional experts (in my eyes) and a lot of experienced weight loss forum members... So I'll pose the question in hopes of learning somethyng...

What I'm trying to determine is the major differences between eating less calories per day... vs ... eating less carbs..

As low carb diets have been extremely popular lately.. and even competitive bodybuilders are known for reducing their carb intake in order to prepare for a contest... The macros don't make a lotta sense to me... I don't understand why one would lower carbs and purposely increase their fat intake.. even if it is "good" fat...

My personal method in the near future is to basically eat less calories... instead of focusing on less carbs... But is my method a viable option to use for cutting (aka losing weight) ... If not.. Why not?? ...

My Bulking diet - I won't post the specifics - but the macros are:

3,585 calories.
Grams : 308p / 341c / 114f ...
Percentages : 36p / 35c / 30f %

My Cutting diet - Again, no specifics -

2,363 calories.
Grams : 223p / 208c / 63f ....
Percentages : 42p / 33c / 25f % ...

I'll also be doing cardio & working out.. etc, etc.. but I would lyke to keep thys discussion completely focused on the changes or results caused purely by altering the diet.. Actually, I'll share that the most major ratio changes came from the removal of whole milk from my diet... as I will focus on increasing my water intake by drinking it with meals...

There ya have it.. Educate me...

Peace..~G

**EME** · 09-04-2005, 07:53 PM

GDD,

Ultimately, it always comes down to calories.

Many people are successful with losing weight on low carb diets because when they cut out the carbs, they are cutting out a significant number of calories that they had been consuming.

There are certain physiological conditions that you can get your body in by dramatically reducing your carb intake, and these can have an effect on forcing your body to burn more fat. Ketosis is a specific example.

However, one of the most significant effects of dramatically lowering carb consumption is the amount of water you will drop. Each gram of stored glycogen holds with it 2.7 grams of water. When you drop the carbs and reduce your glycogen stores, you also will drop a lot of water weight.

Many dieters experience this initial weight drop when they first go low carb and mistakenly think they have dropped a ton of fat in the first week or so.
Any of us who have been around the diet and nutrition world for a while realize this is not the case.

I'm not saying that low carb diets don't produce fat loss. They can, and do, when the dieter truly has the will power to stay on them. But, very low carb diets also can result in significant muscle loss. When your body doesn't have carbs to use for fuel, it has to turn to internal sources for energy. One of these sources is fat, but one of these sources is also muscle.

For those dieters who are specifically interested in maintaining muscle mass, as well as lowering fat, I recommend an approach that uses moderate carbs, timed to provide energy throughout the day, but not to be stored overnight.
Limit simple sugar intake at all times, and take in complex carbs early in the day.

Also, I recommend that you calculate your BMR and adjust it for exercise and activity level so you can get a baseline determination of the amount of calories you should be taking in daily for your goals.

Ultimately, whichever diet strategy you take, how much weight you lose will be determined by how many more calories per day you burn than you take in.

It's really as simple as this... if you are burning more than you are taking in, you are going to have to dig into your body's energy stores for fuel, and you are going to lose weight. If you are taking in more than you are burning, your body is going to store some of the extra for later, and you will gain weight.

Whatever diet strategy you use, you first have to get your calories in vs. calories out plan in check. If you do that you will be successful.

- EME

**dbflgirl** · 09-04-2005, 08:45 PM

My feeling is that, unless you are carb sensitive, there is no particular benefit to a low carb diet and there can be in fact a detriment to one. Nothing you've ever written indicates that this is the case for you, so I think you would do fine to simply reduce your calories while keeping carbs moderate.

pammiejoe6 · 09-04-2005, 09:56 PM

in my own personal experience i have found this....

low carb diets work extremely well for people that are obese or pretty overweight to begin with because of many reasons....some are quite obvious...and others have a lot to do with each person individually depending on their health issues and body types.... Body types respond differently to all types of eating plans so IMO its very important to determine what type you are and follow a plan that compliments it....

As far as low carb diets though....

For one....the high protein, highfat ratios help keep them feeling full until the next meal....i know when i was doing atkins and i found myself hungry, all i had to do was eat some meat or something with cheese in it and i felt full for quite awhile. studies have shown protein has this effect on the body...keeps you feeling satiated....even more so than fats do....and i found it to be true in my personal experiences as well.

Secondly...the absense of carbs ( like EME said) lower the caloric intake immensely. For anyone starting a low carb plan that hasnt been trying to diet, this REALLY makes a huge difference. Its amazing to me how many calories high carb foods contain.

and of course....(like EME said...lol) low carb plans dehydrate us and we lose water weight, thus losing what appears to be pounds of fat a week....

i found that i lost a lot of weight continuously on a low carb approach...it may have been water weight at first...but over the year that i did atkins religiously i lost 110lbs... and i know all that wasnt water weight.....interestingly, staying on a low carb plan was very easy for me because i ate an unlimited supply of meats and cheeses....but i often wonder how healthy that could have been for me. i did NOT eat veggies much at all...as a matter of fact, now that i think about it...my calories ALL came from meat and cheeses mostly...with beef sticks, eggs, salads...all coming in a far second. there were days that i know my calories HAD to have been around 2300-2500 a DAY just because of all the beef steak and chicken i ate smothered in cheese. But the more i think of it, it sure wasnt healthy to be 300lbs in any way shape or form, so losing the weight on a low carb approach was healthier than staying fat, even if i WAS eating a lot of cheese and meat.

once i realized, however, that i wasnt going to be able to make any substantial gains in my lifting on a low carb diet, i decided to migrate toward a more balanced eating plan....i added in the carbs and my body rehydrated...i gained 30lbs FAST.

its been a tough road ever since for me. losing the weight on the scale has NOT been happening. my body has decided it likes being fat...hahaha....and its fighting me every step of the way. i started out keeping my calories right around 2000-2400....lowered to 1800-2100, when that didnt work...and now i am around 1600-1800 on most days, with a cheat day every sunday. This seems to be working for me...even though the scale doesnt want to budge very much. perhaps i am gaining a lot of lean body mass all the while losing fat and thus the scale isnt showing any loss even though my inches are slowly decreasing every week. This has to be it.

at any rate...i have deducted from my own personal experiences that if i want to lose weight FAST...a low carb eating plan is the way to go....my body seems to react quickly to a low carb eating style...but with this plan i also risk losing some lean body mass (although i dont see how it would be much since i eat a massive amount of protein every day...between 175-225g)...but if i want to be able to lift heavy and continuously lift heavier, i MUST have those carbs in my life....its a sad sad workout on my low carb days...

i have also decided that keeping my macros a certain way every single day doesnt work for me personally, so i cycle mine throughout the week. this has proven to be very successful for me and i will stick with it. it also keeps my body guessing i think, because it doesnt give it time to adjust and fight back IMHO. and believe me...my body fights back HARD and FAST...i am a fast gainer...i have an endo-meso body type...meaning i gain weight fast, most of my weight is in my abdominal area, i have a high waist that tapers in a LOT, my skin is soft and smooth, my hair is course, i gain muscle easily, i have a large head...LOL...i have an hourglass shape, and i have clearly defined facial features.

Frankly, i dont think the macro numbers really matter all that much in my case....but the calories numbers DO
when i do low carb i simply keep my protein and my fats high...carbs low......
when i eat moderate carbs i still keep my protein high, but i pull my fats down a little bit from the low carb days...
and on my high carb days i keep my fats as low as i can (without dipping under 18%) and my protein stays high.

i have learned that it IS the calories that count the most, but in certain situations the low carb approach may suit some better than just watching the calories...perhaps the combination of both is the best of both worlds.

Minotaur · 09-04-2005, 10:47 PM

I've tried all kinds of permutations of macro ratios and calorie amounts. I made sure my carbs were all low glycemic and my protein lean, and my fats from olive oil and fish oil. But nothing has been working to drop the fat.

I've opted to go low carb because I am insulin resistant with metabolic syndrome, and possibly pre-diabetic. Not to mention the 25lbs I have been fighting to lose for several years, thanks to my newly diagnosed insulin resistance. I may still need medication like Glucophage because while the fat seems to be going, it is going slowly and grudgingly.

**skelooth** · 09-04-2005, 11:16 PM

Low carb diets work because it puts your body into a state of ketosis. Dr. Atkins describes it in his book as having a metabolism better suited to fat loss, because your metabolism is in fact burning fat for fuel (as opposed to glucose).

There's all sorts of low carb diets, carb cycling, etc, but the ones I'm familiar with are CKD and TKD, which are both cyclic ketogenic diets where you keep your body in a state of ketosis for most the week, then you 'carb up' and overcompensate glycogen stores.

Here's a link to a 'how to' on c-k-d.com ... most of us who use it have tweaked the pwo nutrition a bit to include dextrose.

http://www.c-k-d.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5

(This is a very good read for those unfamiliar with CKDs or those interested in trying one. I follow this diet to the tee.)

**skelooth** · 09-04-2005, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EME

Many dieters experience this initial weight drop when they first go low carb and mistakenly think they have dropped a ton of fat in the first week or so.
Any of us who have been around the diet and nutrition world for a while realize this is not the case.

Before going to CKD, I was plataued at around 220ish pounds for about 2 months, fat refused to come off of my body, and I was hovering at around 21-22% bodyfat... I was also weak and was not making any strength gains despite my 'squeaky clean' 40/40/20 diet.

When I went to CKD, my strength shot up in the first week at an almost freakish rate (Went from curling 40lb barbell to 70lb barbell in the span between two workouts), and not only did I lost 20lbs... according to my trainers caliper test, I lost 5% bodyfat in 5 weeks. These results are really not uncommon... but there's a few missing pieces of the puzzle. Some people (like me) respond extremely well to ketogenic and high fat diets, where some people get sick, lethargic, and weak on them. I have a buddy on bodybuilding.com who had similar results doing TKD. We both follow our diets to the T, and neither one of us have lost an ounce of lean body mass. I'd go out on a limb and say I've put some on due to the over compensation effects of carb up days.

Keto diets are VERY controversial, and sure, why not? How can a diet that is composed of olive oil and full fat cheese work? The unfortunate part is that most people in the fitness world are confusing cyclic keto diets with ATKINS. Atkins does not provide for a carb up day and is geared for sedentry over weight americans. CKD and TKD both use carbs in a strategic fashion to preserve and build LBM, a few people even bulk with keto diets.

But again, there's a missing piece of the puzzle, because it seems to be hit or miss with how people respond to it.

Edit: Those fast results are what I like to call the 'honeymoon' of keto dieting. Those results do not last.... I'm back to fighting tooth and nail to lose a quarter lb a week. But I actually FEEL healthier on keto. When I go back to eating a low fat diet I feel very weak and lethargic.

GameDayDog · 09-05-2005, 10:40 AM

Just wanted to thank ya all for the wonderful responses...

I guess I was a little paranoid about setting myself up to fail as I reviewed my cutting plan and wondered if I needed to go the super low carb route...

It's taken a whyle for me to put on significant mass and I don't want to lose it all whyle trying to reduce my bodyfat...

So I was making sure that I could styll see results from having a balanced diet with lower overall calories instead of a diet that focused on low carbs period.

********

For those of you that have just reduced your calories... since my carbs aren't going to be extremely low anywayz... Should I styll have a "Bulking" caloric day??? .. Similar to how people on low carb diets have refeeds... I haven't done the diet yet so I have no idea how I'm going to feel... I was planning on keeping it low calories for the entire 6 weeks... I don't see myself having a problem doing that... but I'm curious if a "refeed" is necessary... Even if I'm not trying to force myself into a state of ketosis...

Thx..

Peace..~G

**skelooth** · 09-05-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GameDayDog

For those of you that have just reduced your calories... since my carbs aren't going to be extremely low anywayz... Should I styll have a "Bulking" caloric day??? .. Similar to how people on low carb diets have refeeds... I haven't done the diet yet so I have no idea how I'm going to feel... I was planning on keeping it low calories for the entire 6 weeks... I don't see myself having a problem doing that... but I'm curious if a "refeed" is necessary... Even if I'm not trying to force myself into a state of ketosis...

Yes, you should still 'refeed' once a week. One day a week of caloric surplus will help with leptin levels, and help keep you out of starvation mode (plataues). Some people just have 'cheat days'... but it's much better to eat more of the clean foods your normally eat.

**johnsbod** · 09-05-2005, 04:12 PM

I really think it depends on your body type. My parents maintain a low carb diet and both have lost tons of weight with no noticable change in LBM. At the same time, my father's bad cholestorol dropped over 100 points in the first month, his triglycerides (sp?) were down, and his good cholestorol actually went up 3-4 points. Most of the people in my family are carb senstive and this type of diet seems to work well for people who are carb sensitive. Diet really needs to be catered to the individual IMO. There is no end-all be-all diet, just like there is no end-all be-all workout. I don't do low carb, but if I consumed as many carbs as other people on this board I would really blimp up in a short period of time.

Apootheosis · 09-05-2005, 06:00 PM

why cant we all just grab a bag of popcorn and read ud2.0?

Ghosting · 09-05-2005, 06:33 PM

Eating is like me telling someone to train, something I normally dont do, but I would go with low carbs over low cals anyday. Low cals will only cause your metabolic rate to slow down, and if hi glycemic carbs dont concern you, there is insulin resistance of the fat cells with the spiking of insulin due to hi GI carbs. 2 big factors in low cal diets that are disadvantages. Low carb on the other hand has several advantages. The biggest is ketosis, which Skelooth talked about. Eating fats send a signal called leptin to the brainthat it doesnt need food, helps keep you satisfied (feeling full) and your metabolism up even when you are not eating. Low carbs diets also arent full of insulin spikes, so you wont feek the urge ever to eat with low insulin. I could give a million more reasons why I feel low carb is the way to go, but I hate typing.

Im not suggesting low carb means its ok to go hog wild on the cals, you still need to keep them at maintenance.

Ghosting · 09-05-2005, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

because your metabolism is in fact burning fat for fuel (as opposed to glucose)

Cutting through all the technical talk, this is the number 1 reason to go low carb over low cal.

Andrew69 · 09-07-2005, 08:43 AM

Although I basically agree with every bodies posts, and agree with EME that in the end fat loss is a result of calorie deficit, I still dont think that it is that simple. For many people, myself included, to say that if you train hard and simply cut your calorie intake slightly, will lead to a shredded physique in time, is obviously not the case.
There is more to it than that. I dont profess to know anything at all about how the body works, but I do know this. A low(er?) carb type diet (actually, Id call it a lifestyle) has allowed me drop more bf and retain more muscle mass then anything I have ever done.
I tried the 40/40/20 diets (eating very, very clean and getting virtually all my fats for "good" sources) and I platued quickly at about 14-15%. Nothing I did could make me budge from that figure.
Its only after I started the NHE eating plan (with some modifications to suit me that has allowed me to continue recomping slowly) that I was able to drop below 14%.
Maybe Im carb sensitive, I dont know. But I do know that the fact I dropped my carbs is why I am where I am today.
Too many people under estimate the lengths the body will go to to retain fat if it thinks it may be about to starve. And I think the same people also under estimate how much more willing the body is to let go of bf if it has plenty of dietary fat for fuel.

For those that are unfamiliar with the NHE eating plan, it is basically a high protein, moderate fat, low carb eating plan that also has 2 carb ups per week. Although I havent tried a true keto diet, I find this one works very, very well for me.

At my weekly weigh ins, I find my waist measurements to be either static or drop slightly, my definition to be increasing with time, but the scales are still going up!

You cant ask for more than that.

Its not a quick process by any means. Many people suggest that I should simply bulk "properly" and add the muscle I want and then cut, but for someone who has held a negative self image for many years, that is not an option.

Besides, I am a patient man

4amWorkouts · 09-07-2005, 02:34 PM

Personally, I lower my calorie intake by lowering my carbs. On days that I don't workout, I decrease my calories by taking in fewer carbs, keeping my protein and EFA intake the same.

HAYWOOD JABLOME · 09-07-2005, 03:29 PM

My body responds so much better to low carb (CKD) diets for cutting than not. Many times I've been down to single digit bf% using a ckd. The main reason I go off a low carb approach is during the summer when I do a lot of biking, this is when low carb is useless to me and I need carbs. I know my body and I know I'm pretty carb sensitive.

But you still need to be in a caloric defecit at the end of the day to lose weight.

Phosphate bond · 09-13-2005, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

Low carb diets work because it puts your body into a state of ketosis. Dr. Atkins describes it in his book as having a metabolism better suited to fat loss, because your metabolism is in fact burning fat for fuel (as opposed to glucose).

Here we go again.

Cells burn whatever fuel is most abundant. Period. If you eat lots of fat your cells will burn fat. (No suprises. Even ICU patients lower their respiratory quotients if you put them in a IV lipid emulsion-done in cases where they can't expel enough C02 due to lung problems)

But all that matters is how much of the fat oxidation is coming from your adipose cells.

Low carb helps release fat if it results in lower insulin levels, but I think epinephrine secretion is pretty essential to make it all work.

If you have shitty epinephrine levels don't expect much fat transfer from adipose to muscle to be occuring (that's what we all care about anyway)

09-04-2005, 07:05 PM	#1
GameDayDog The Dawg Is Back!! Join Date: May 2005 Location: Doin Compound Movements 4 Scooby Snacks! Posts: 1,975 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 31	Low Carb vs Lower Calories Well, we have at least 3 nutritional experts (in my eyes) and a lot of experienced weight loss forum members... So I'll pose the question in hopes of learning somethyng... What I'm trying to determine is the major differences between eating less calories per day... vs ... eating less carbs.. As low carb diets have been extremely popular lately.. and even competitive bodybuilders are known for reducing their carb intake in order to prepare for a contest... The macros don't make a lotta sense to me... I don't understand why one would lower carbs and purposely increase their fat intake.. even if it is "good" fat... My personal method in the near future is to basically eat less calories... instead of focusing on less carbs... But is my method a viable option to use for cutting (aka losing weight) ... If not.. Why not?? ... My Bulking diet - I won't post the specifics - but the macros are: 3,585 calories. Grams : 308p / 341c / 114f ... Percentages : 36p / 35c / 30f % My Cutting diet - Again, no specifics - 2,363 calories. Grams : 223p / 208c / 63f .... Percentages : 42p / 33c / 25f % ... I'll also be doing cardio & working out.. etc, etc.. but I would lyke to keep thys discussion completely focused on the changes or results caused purely by altering the diet.. Actually, I'll share that the most major ratio changes came from the removal of whole milk from my diet... as I will focus on increasing my water intake by drinking it with meals... There ya have it.. Educate me... Peace..~G __________________ I am Thee Alpha.. RaSP is Thee oMEGA.. Between the 2 of us - We have everythyng covered... I want to be bigger than all the humans!! "I'm sure I should be doing cardio too....but I don't run from anything...so why practice?" - 1stInDoor Goal - 200#'s 5/27/07 - 4/27/07 - 175# 3/27/07 - 167#

09-04-2005, 07:53 PM	#2
EME Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,651 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 55	GDD, Ultimately, it always comes down to calories. Many people are successful with losing weight on low carb diets because when they cut out the carbs, they are cutting out a significant number of calories that they had been consuming. There are certain physiological conditions that you can get your body in by dramatically reducing your carb intake, and these can have an effect on forcing your body to burn more fat. Ketosis is a specific example. However, one of the most significant effects of dramatically lowering carb consumption is the amount of water you will drop. Each gram of stored glycogen holds with it 2.7 grams of water. When you drop the carbs and reduce your glycogen stores, you also will drop a lot of water weight. Many dieters experience this initial weight drop when they first go low carb and mistakenly think they have dropped a ton of fat in the first week or so. Any of us who have been around the diet and nutrition world for a while realize this is not the case. I'm not saying that low carb diets don't produce fat loss. They can, and do, when the dieter truly has the will power to stay on them. But, very low carb diets also can result in significant muscle loss. When your body doesn't have carbs to use for fuel, it has to turn to internal sources for energy. One of these sources is fat, but one of these sources is also muscle. For those dieters who are specifically interested in maintaining muscle mass, as well as lowering fat, I recommend an approach that uses moderate carbs, timed to provide energy throughout the day, but not to be stored overnight. Limit simple sugar intake at all times, and take in complex carbs early in the day. Also, I recommend that you calculate your BMR and adjust it for exercise and activity level so you can get a baseline determination of the amount of calories you should be taking in daily for your goals. Ultimately, whichever diet strategy you take, how much weight you lose will be determined by how many more calories per day you burn than you take in. It's really as simple as this... if you are burning more than you are taking in, you are going to have to dig into your body's energy stores for fuel, and you are going to lose weight. If you are taking in more than you are burning, your body is going to store some of the extra for later, and you will gain weight. Whatever diet strategy you use, you first have to get your calories in vs. calories out plan in check. If you do that you will be successful. - EME __________________ PhysiqueFXonline - Online Nutrition and Training with Michael and Kendra Elias: www.PhysiqueFXonline.com www.MichaelandKendra.com My wife, and IFBB Fitness Pro Kendra Elias' personal site: www.KendraElias.com Proud member of Team ALR: www.ALRIndustries.com

09-04-2005, 10:47 PM	#5
Minotaur Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Monmouth County, New Jersey Posts: 103 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	I've tried all kinds of permutations of macro ratios and calorie amounts. I made sure my carbs were all low glycemic and my protein lean, and my fats from olive oil and fish oil. But nothing has been working to drop the fat. I've opted to go low carb because I am insulin resistant with metabolic syndrome, and possibly pre-diabetic. Not to mention the 25lbs I have been fighting to lose for several years, thanks to my newly diagnosed insulin resistance. I may still need medication like Glucophage because while the fat seems to be going, it is going slowly and grudgingly. __________________ "You monsters are such interesting creatures! I was just saying to my girlfriend, just the other day, 'Monsters are such interesting people! Why I'll bet they lead such interesting lives!' The things you must see and the things you must do! My stars!"

09-04-2005, 11:16 PM	#6
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 8,032 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 160	Low carb diets work because it puts your body into a state of ketosis. Dr. Atkins describes it in his book as having a metabolism better suited to fat loss, because your metabolism is in fact burning fat for fuel (as opposed to glucose). There's all sorts of low carb diets, carb cycling, etc, but the ones I'm familiar with are CKD and TKD, which are both cyclic ketogenic diets where you keep your body in a state of ketosis for most the week, then you 'carb up' and overcompensate glycogen stores. Here's a link to a 'how to' on c-k-d.com ... most of us who use it have tweaked the pwo nutrition a bit to include dextrose. http://www.c-k-d.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5 (This is a very good read for those unfamiliar with CKDs or those interested in trying one. I follow this diet to the tee.) __________________

09-05-2005, 10:40 AM	#8
GameDayDog The Dawg Is Back!! Join Date: May 2005 Location: Doin Compound Movements 4 Scooby Snacks! Posts: 1,975 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 31	Best Method... Just wanted to thank ya all for the wonderful responses... I guess I was a little paranoid about setting myself up to fail as I reviewed my cutting plan and wondered if I needed to go the super low carb route... It's taken a whyle for me to put on significant mass and I don't want to lose it all whyle trying to reduce my bodyfat... So I was making sure that I could styll see results from having a balanced diet with lower overall calories instead of a diet that focused on low carbs period. ******** For those of you that have just reduced your calories... since my carbs aren't going to be extremely low anywayz... Should I styll have a "Bulking" caloric day??? .. Similar to how people on low carb diets have refeeds... I haven't done the diet yet so I have no idea how I'm going to feel... I was planning on keeping it low calories for the entire 6 weeks... I don't see myself having a problem doing that... but I'm curious if a "refeed" is necessary... Even if I'm not trying to force myself into a state of ketosis... Thx.. Peace..~G __________________ I am Thee Alpha.. RaSP is Thee oMEGA.. Between the 2 of us - We have everythyng covered... I want to be bigger than all the humans!! "I'm sure I should be doing cardio too....but I don't run from anything...so why practice?" - 1stInDoor Goal - 200#'s 5/27/07 - 4/27/07 - 175# 3/27/07 - 167#

09-04-2005, 08:45 PM	#3
dbflgirl Silver Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Hurricane Alley Posts: 645 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 16	My feeling is that, unless you are carb sensitive, there is no particular benefit to a low carb diet and there can be in fact a detriment to one. Nothing you've ever written indicates that this is the case for you, so I think you would do fine to simply reduce your calories while keeping carbs moderate.

09-04-2005, 09:56 PM	#4
pammiejoe6 Pink Members Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: south texas Posts: 4,162 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 84	in my own personal experience i have found this.... low carb diets work extremely well for people that are obese or pretty overweight to begin with because of many reasons....some are quite obvious...and others have a lot to do with each person individually depending on their health issues and body types.... Body types respond differently to all types of eating plans so IMO its very important to determine what type you are and follow a plan that compliments it.... As far as low carb diets though.... For one....the high protein, highfat ratios help keep them feeling full until the next meal....i know when i was doing atkins and i found myself hungry, all i had to do was eat some meat or something with cheese in it and i felt full for quite awhile. studies have shown protein has this effect on the body...keeps you feeling satiated....even more so than fats do....and i found it to be true in my personal experiences as well. Secondly...the absense of carbs ( like EME said) lower the caloric intake immensely. For anyone starting a low carb plan that hasnt been trying to diet, this REALLY makes a huge difference. Its amazing to me how many calories high carb foods contain. and of course....(like EME said...lol) low carb plans dehydrate us and we lose water weight, thus losing what appears to be pounds of fat a week.... i found that i lost a lot of weight continuously on a low carb approach...it may have been water weight at first...but over the year that i did atkins religiously i lost 110lbs... and i know all that wasnt water weight.....interestingly, staying on a low carb plan was very easy for me because i ate an unlimited supply of meats and cheeses....but i often wonder how healthy that could have been for me. i did NOT eat veggies much at all...as a matter of fact, now that i think about it...my calories ALL came from meat and cheeses mostly...with beef sticks, eggs, salads...all coming in a far second. there were days that i know my calories HAD to have been around 2300-2500 a DAY just because of all the beef steak and chicken i ate smothered in cheese. But the more i think of it, it sure wasnt healthy to be 300lbs in any way shape or form, so losing the weight on a low carb approach was healthier than staying fat, even if i WAS eating a lot of cheese and meat. once i realized, however, that i wasnt going to be able to make any substantial gains in my lifting on a low carb diet, i decided to migrate toward a more balanced eating plan....i added in the carbs and my body rehydrated...i gained 30lbs FAST. its been a tough road ever since for me. losing the weight on the scale has NOT been happening. my body has decided it likes being fat...hahaha....and its fighting me every step of the way. i started out keeping my calories right around 2000-2400....lowered to 1800-2100, when that didnt work...and now i am around 1600-1800 on most days, with a cheat day every sunday. This seems to be working for me...even though the scale doesnt want to budge very much. perhaps i am gaining a lot of lean body mass all the while losing fat and thus the scale isnt showing any loss even though my inches are slowly decreasing every week. This has to be it. at any rate...i have deducted from my own personal experiences that if i want to lose weight FAST...a low carb eating plan is the way to go....my body seems to react quickly to a low carb eating style...but with this plan i also risk losing some lean body mass (although i dont see how it would be much since i eat a massive amount of protein every day...between 175-225g)...but if i want to be able to lift heavy and continuously lift heavier, i MUST have those carbs in my life....its a sad sad workout on my low carb days... i have also decided that keeping my macros a certain way every single day doesnt work for me personally, so i cycle mine throughout the week. this has proven to be very successful for me and i will stick with it. it also keeps my body guessing i think, because it doesnt give it time to adjust and fight back IMHO. and believe me...my body fights back HARD and FAST...i am a fast gainer...i have an endo-meso body type...meaning i gain weight fast, most of my weight is in my abdominal area, i have a high waist that tapers in a LOT, my skin is soft and smooth, my hair is course, i gain muscle easily, i have a large head...LOL...i have an hourglass shape, and i have clearly defined facial features. Frankly, i dont think the macro numbers really matter all that much in my case....but the calories numbers DO when i do low carb i simply keep my protein and my fats high...carbs low...... when i eat moderate carbs i still keep my protein high, but i pull my fats down a little bit from the low carb days... and on my high carb days i keep my fats as low as i can (without dipping under 18%) and my protein stays high. i have learned that it IS the calories that count the most, but in certain situations the low carb approach may suit some better than just watching the calories...perhaps the combination of both is the best of both worlds.

09-05-2005, 04:12 PM	#10
johnsbod Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 2,965 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 62	I really think it depends on your body type. My parents maintain a low carb diet and both have lost tons of weight with no noticable change in LBM. At the same time, my father's bad cholestorol dropped over 100 points in the first month, his triglycerides (sp?) were down, and his good cholestorol actually went up 3-4 points. Most of the people in my family are carb senstive and this type of diet seems to work well for people who are carb sensitive. Diet really needs to be catered to the individual IMO. There is no end-all be-all diet, just like there is no end-all be-all workout. I don't do low carb, but if I consumed as many carbs as other people on this board I would really blimp up in a short period of time. __________________ Wenn Sie Deutsch sprechen können, posten Sie hier. Misc Perv #69

09-05-2005, 06:00 PM	#11
Apootheosis Pro Stature Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 626 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 10	why cant we all just grab a bag of popcorn and read ud2.0? __________________ lawlz

09-05-2005, 06:33 PM	#12
Ghosting IronMass Donator Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,810 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 21	Eating is like me telling someone to train, something I normally dont do, but I would go with low carbs over low cals anyday. Low cals will only cause your metabolic rate to slow down, and if hi glycemic carbs dont concern you, there is insulin resistance of the fat cells with the spiking of insulin due to hi GI carbs. 2 big factors in low cal diets that are disadvantages. Low carb on the other hand has several advantages. The biggest is ketosis, which Skelooth talked about. Eating fats send a signal called leptin to the brainthat it doesnt need food, helps keep you satisfied (feeling full) and your metabolism up even when you are not eating. Low carbs diets also arent full of insulin spikes, so you wont feek the urge ever to eat with low insulin. I could give a million more reasons why I feel low carb is the way to go, but I hate typing. Im not suggesting low carb means its ok to go hog wild on the cals, you still need to keep them at maintenance. __________________ Robcardu is the Jesus of the 90s.

09-07-2005, 08:43 AM	#14
Andrew69 Amateur Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Right here, where are you? Posts: 52 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 3	Although I basically agree with every bodies posts, and agree with EME that in the end fat loss is a result of calorie deficit, I still dont think that it is that simple. For many people, myself included, to say that if you train hard and simply cut your calorie intake slightly, will lead to a shredded physique in time, is obviously not the case. There is more to it than that. I dont profess to know anything at all about how the body works, but I do know this. A low(er?) carb type diet (actually, Id call it a lifestyle) has allowed me drop more bf and retain more muscle mass then anything I have ever done. I tried the 40/40/20 diets (eating very, very clean and getting virtually all my fats for "good" sources) and I platued quickly at about 14-15%. Nothing I did could make me budge from that figure. Its only after I started the NHE eating plan (with some modifications to suit me that has allowed me to continue recomping slowly) that I was able to drop below 14%. Maybe Im carb sensitive, I dont know. But I do know that the fact I dropped my carbs is why I am where I am today. Too many people under estimate the lengths the body will go to to retain fat if it thinks it may be about to starve. And I think the same people also under estimate how much more willing the body is to let go of bf if it has plenty of dietary fat for fuel. For those that are unfamiliar with the NHE eating plan, it is basically a high protein, moderate fat, low carb eating plan that also has 2 carb ups per week. Although I havent tried a true keto diet, I find this one works very, very well for me. At my weekly weigh ins, I find my waist measurements to be either static or drop slightly, my definition to be increasing with time, but the scales are still going up! You cant ask for more than that. Its not a quick process by any means. Many people suggest that I should simply bulk "properly" and add the muscle I want and then cut, but for someone who has held a negative self image for many years, that is not an option. Besides, I am a patient man __________________

09-07-2005, 02:34 PM	#15
4amWorkouts Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wylie, Texas Posts: 110 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	Personally, I lower my calorie intake by lowering my carbs. On days that I don't workout, I decrease my calories by taking in fewer carbs, keeping my protein and EFA intake the same.

09-07-2005, 03:29 PM	#16
HAYWOOD JABLOME Pro Stature Join Date: May 2005 Location: Calgary Posts: 341 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 90	My body responds so much better to low carb (CKD) diets for cutting than not. Many times I've been down to single digit bf% using a ckd. The main reason I go off a low carb approach is during the summer when I do a lot of biking, this is when low carb is useless to me and I need carbs. I know my body and I know I'm pretty carb sensitive. But you still need to be in a caloric defecit at the end of the day to lose weight. __________________ Homer: [drunk] "Look, the thing about my family is there's five of us. Marge, Bart, Girl Bart, the one who doesn't talk, and the fat guy. How I loathe him."