fasted cardio and breakfast meal

Vario · 08-20-2007, 11:40 PM

Going to start upping the cardio I do as a way to get rid of some midsection flab I got.

I plan on doing a light jog 20 minutes 5 days a week, hopefully my shinsplints dont act up.

Should I have whey before the run to offset catabolism? Or would it be better to have whey after?

My normal breakfast is 3/4 cup oats, small fruit, tsp olive oil/fish oil, 30g whey protein powder.

Will eating carbs after morning cardio sabatoge lyposis?
Will doing fasted cardio make me lose muscle?

**romanaz** · 08-21-2007, 03:27 AM

personally i didn't like fasted cardio when I did it, but now i don't see a bad thing in it, if you get some amino's during or before.

I think they say BCAA during it is optimal, but I'm sure theres nothing wrong with whey.

**Ikaika** · 08-21-2007, 03:43 AM

You'll be golden as long as you've got BCAA's and a cortisol blocker like Retain to keep catabolism at a minimum.

**bubba g** · 08-21-2007, 04:17 AM

I like to eat a decent breakfast before doing morning cardio. a couple scoops of whey, and a medium size bowl of oatmeal.

My reasoning behind this is that I feel that if you do cardio while fasted you teach your body to do all that work with no calories. sure you will burn some fat, but I think it slows the metabolism down.

If you eat a decent breakfast before your cardio I believe it speeds up your metabolism, and leads to you burning more calories thruout the day.

Another thing worth mentioning is, a 20 minute jog is going to burn minimal calories maybe 200 tops, and your body doesn't get into fat burning mode untill 15 to 20 minutes into execise.

**Ikaika** · 08-21-2007, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba g

Another thing worth mentioning is, a 20 minute jog is going to burn minimal calories maybe 200 tops, and your body doesn't get into fat burning mode untill 15 to 20 minutes into execise.

O rly?

**bubba g** · 08-21-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ikaika

O rly?

a 200 lb person jogging at 5mph would burn around 254 calories in 20 minutes. the less the person weighs the fewer calories that will be burned.

And yeah rly your body wont start tapping into it's fat stores until about 15 to 20 minutes into continuous exercise depending on your conditioning, and a few other factors.

**MacTech** · 08-21-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ikaika

You'll be golden as long as you've got BCAA's and a cortisol blocker like Retain to keep catabolism at a minimum.

For me, this is true. Best fat loss with fasted cardio, 30 minutes with my heart rate at ~ 70%. Slow walking doesn't do it for me, need some inclined fast pace walk or some 1 minute fast sprints every 2-3 minutes.

**madman911** · 08-21-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vario

Will eating carbs after morning cardio sabatoge lyposis?
Will doing fasted cardio make me lose muscle?

No, you can eat carbs pre-cardio, and post-cardio, and you'll still lose just as much fat. It is a myth that fasted am cardio is superior to fed-state cardio in burning fat.

Yes, fasted cardio will result in more muscle loss and is completely unnecessary.

I agree with bubba that 20 minutes of low/moderate intensity cardio is not enough... to burn sufficient calories, I'd never recommend less than 30 minutes. If you're trying to get rid of the last bit of fat on a stubborn body part, I'd do up to 45 minutes. I'd also recommend HIIT cardio.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba g

And yeah rly your body wont start tapping into it's fat stores until about 15 to 20 minutes into continuous exercise depending on your conditioning, and a few other factors.

To play devil's advocate: Then why does a HIIT routine that lasts only 10-15 minutes burn fat so effectively?

It doesn't matter what the body uses as a primary source of calories burned during a cardio session, it only matters that a sufficient caloric deficit is created and the metabolism post-workout is increased. That is why a HIIT session is so effective, it raises the metabolism for up to 12 hours.

Vario · 08-21-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba g

a 200 lb person jogging at 5mph would burn around 254 calories in 20 minutes. the less the person weighs the fewer calories that will be burned.

And yeah rly your body wont start tapping into it's fat stores until about 15 to 20 minutes into continuous exercise depending on your conditioning, and a few other factors.

With fasted cardio, there is minimal glyocogen stores, so the body will enter lyposis very quickly.

**MacTech** · 08-21-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman911

Yes, fasted cardio will result in more muscle loss and is completely unnecessary.

If you don't have a BCAA or EAA source, I would agree this could happen.

I disagree, that for myself, it is completely unnecessary.

**bubba g** · 08-21-2007, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman911

No, you can eat carbs pre-cardio, and post-cardio, and you'll still lose just as much fat. It is a myth that fasted am cardio is superior to fed-state cardio in burning fat.

Yes, fasted cardio will result in more muscle loss and is completely unnecessary.

I agree with bubba that 20 minutes of low/moderate intensity cardio is not enough... to burn sufficient calories, I'd never recommend less than 30 minutes. If you're trying to get rid of the last bit of fat on a stubborn body part, I'd do up to 45 minutes. I'd also recommend HIIT cardio.

To play devil's advocate: Then why does a HIIT routine that lasts only 10-15 minutes burn fat so effectively?

It doesn't matter what the body uses as a primary source of calories burned during a cardio session, it only matters that a sufficient caloric deficit is created and the metabolism post-workout is increased. That is why a HIIT session is so effective, it raises the metabolism for up to 12 hours.

I agree with what you say about HIIT.. it works well because it ramps up metabolism in addition to burning a good amount of calories. I quoted my post from above where I said that I feel eating a good meal before cardio speeds metabolism. I think it is true with any cardio, not just HIIT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba g

I like to eat a decent breakfast before doing morning cardio. a couple scoops of whey, and a medium size bowl of oatmeal.

My reasoning behind this is that I feel that if you do cardio while fasted you teach your body to do all that work with no calories. sure you will burn some fat, but I think it slows the metabolism down.

If you eat a decent breakfast before your cardio I believe it speeds up your metabolism, and leads to you burning more calories thruout the day.

Another thing worth mentioning is, a 20 minute jog is going to burn minimal calories maybe 200 tops, and your body doesn't get into fat burning mode untill 15 to 20 minutes into execise.

Vario · 08-21-2007, 02:49 PM

seems to be a lot of controversy on a variety of mssg boards about it, i guess ill do a low intensity jog with eca and a bit of whey, then follow it up with a high protein breakfast, like 1/2 cup oats, scoop whey, egg fried in olive oil.

if i start losing strength, ill cut back.

is cardio after lifting a good idea? Like say 15 mins on a bike.

**madman911** · 08-21-2007, 04:00 PM

3-4 times per week I do low intensity cardio for 30 minutes after lifting, it's not a problem.

In addition to the cardio, make sure you have a solid cutting diet in place... cardio won't do much if you aren't also eating below maintenance.

**skelooth** · 08-21-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba g

Another thing worth mentioning is, a 20 minute jog is going to burn minimal calories maybe 200 tops, and your body doesn't get into fat burning mode untill 15 to 20 minutes into execise.

I have to step in and completely disagree. The entire reasoning behind fasted morning cardio is that you will start out in 'fat burning' mode, because your glycogen stores are already empty. They claim it takes 20 minutes to get into the fat burning zone because that is how long it typically takes to burn off your liver's glycogen store.

Even beyond that, there is no such thing as the 'fat burning zone' because it's ultimately calories in vs calories out. If the fat burning zone of cardio were so important people would never have had praise for things like HIIT.

**madman911** · 08-21-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

Even beyond that, there is no such thing as the 'fat burning zone' because it's ultimately calories in vs calories out. If the fat burning zone of cardio were so important people would never have had praise for things like HIIT.

Exactly.

Fasted morning cardio does work, but it's not any more effective than doing cardio in a fed state. I used to buy into the dogma of fasted cardio and did it that way for a long time. Now, I do my cardio in the evenings or afternoons and the fat is just as quick to come off. If you are in caloric deficit, resistance training, and eating a sound diet, then your fat stores are what will be tapped to make-up the deficit.

**bubba g** · 08-22-2007, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

I have to step in and completely disagree. The entire reasoning behind fasted morning cardio is that you will start out in 'fat burning' mode, because your glycogen stores are already empty. They claim it takes 20 minutes to get into the fat burning zone because that is how long it typically takes to burn off your liver's glycogen store.

Even beyond that, there is no such thing as the 'fat burning zone' because it's ultimately calories in vs calories out. If the fat burn

08-20-2007, 11:40 PM	#1
Vario Pro Stature Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 286 Recipes: 1 Rep Power: 12	fasted cardio and breakfast meal Going to start upping the cardio I do as a way to get rid of some midsection flab I got. I plan on doing a light jog 20 minutes 5 days a week, hopefully my shinsplints dont act up. Should I have whey before the run to offset catabolism? Or would it be better to have whey after? My normal breakfast is 3/4 cup oats, small fruit, tsp olive oil/fish oil, 30g whey protein powder. Will eating carbs after morning cardio sabatoge lyposis? Will doing fasted cardio make me lose muscle? __________________ 165-181 Class Current - (Season Goal) Bench: 235(275), Squat: 385+(405), Deadlift: 420(500), Standing Press: 165 (185)

08-21-2007, 03:43 AM	#3
Ikaika resident degen Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 3,807 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 215	Re: fasted cardio and breakfast meal You'll be golden as long as you've got BCAA's and a cortisol blocker like Retain to keep catabolism at a minimum. __________________ No supplement can make up for the lack of a strong work ethic.

08-21-2007, 04:17 AM	#4
bubba g Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,184 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 178	Re: fasted cardio and breakfast meal I like to eat a decent breakfast before doing morning cardio. a couple scoops of whey, and a medium size bowl of oatmeal. My reasoning behind this is that I feel that if you do cardio while fasted you teach your body to do all that work with no calories. sure you will burn some fat, but I think it slows the metabolism down. If you eat a decent breakfast before your cardio I believe it speeds up your metabolism, and leads to you burning more calories thruout the day. Another thing worth mentioning is, a 20 minute jog is going to burn minimal calories maybe 200 tops, and your body doesn't get into fat burning mode untill 15 to 20 minutes into execise.

08-21-2007, 02:49 PM	#12
Vario Pro Stature Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 286 Recipes: 1 Rep Power: 12	Re: fasted cardio and breakfast meal seems to be a lot of controversy on a variety of mssg boards about it, i guess ill do a low intensity jog with eca and a bit of whey, then follow it up with a high protein breakfast, like 1/2 cup oats, scoop whey, egg fried in olive oil. if i start losing strength, ill cut back. is cardio after lifting a good idea? Like say 15 mins on a bike. __________________ 165-181 Class Current - (Season Goal) Bench: 235(275), Squat: 385+(405), Deadlift: 420(500), Standing Press: 165 (185)

08-21-2007, 04:00 PM	#13
madman911 Metamorphosizing Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Area Posts: 1,525 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 60	Re: fasted cardio and breakfast meal 3-4 times per week I do low intensity cardio for 30 minutes after lifting, it's not a problem. In addition to the cardio, make sure you have a solid cutting diet in place... cardio won't do much if you aren't also eating below maintenance. __________________ Millennium Sport Technologies Sponsored Athlete http://www.millenniumsport.net IMPC 2006 Novice Division Champ IMPC 2007 Open Division Champ Never underestimate the power of the bandana.