Cardio Fasted, or not?

**skelooth** · 03-01-2006, 01:28 AM

Personally I don't think fasted cardio is a good idea at all. Being that cortisol levels are high in the morning, it's a recipe for muscle catabolism. I like to have a small fat meal in the morning before cardio, like a tblspn of olive oil and a hard boiled egg or something.

Make your choice and give any reason why you are for or against fasted cardio. It's not really meant to be a debate, as much as it is to see where people stand and which one is more popular amongst Iron Mass Posters

**bubba g** · 03-01-2006, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

Personally I don't think fasted cardio is a good idea at all. Being that cortisol levels are high in the morning, it's a recipe for muscle catabolism. I like to have a small fat meal in the morning before cardio, like a tblspn of olive oil and a hard boiled egg or something.

Make your choice and give any reason why you are for or against fasted cardio. It's not really meant to be a debate, as much as it is to see where people stand and which one is more popular amongst Iron Mass Posters

I don't think it is good at all... Eat a small meal, with no fast burning carbs in it.. oats are perfect in my opinion... and a lot of water...

**davtown** · 03-01-2006, 01:36 AM

I voted against it, although I have done it before. Sometimes you don't want to get out of bed and eat a meal just to get back in bed again. As far as doing out-of-bed fasted morning cardio.... nah, not for me.

**skelooth** · 03-01-2006, 01:44 AM

yeah I will echo that water thing! But I still think a fat meal is better, just personal opinion :saint:

**EME** · 03-01-2006, 01:46 AM

Whether or not to do fasted state cardio depends the individual, how much fat they have to lose, and their propensity for fat and muscle loss.

Eartly morning fasted state cardio is a technique that has been used successfully by bodybuilders, including myself, for decades.

There are some key points about cortisol elevation that many confuse and don't fully understand.

Cortisol elevation during short duration training is not a bad thing.

Many people only focus on the fact that Cortisol is responsible for muscle loss. Cortisol is also the hormone responsible for mobilizing and burning fat when plasma glucose is burned up.

During exercise, fat is a much more efficient source of energy than muscle protein. Fat provides more energy per gram and much easier to convert to energy than muscle protein.

During periods of exercise induced stress, your body wants the fastest and most efficient source of energy available. During training it will turn to stored fat for energy before turning to stored muscle.

Post exercise is the period of time when muscle protein comes into jeopardy.

When the immediate energy needs of the exercise induced stress are over, and cortisol levels are still elevated, your body will switch from fat to muscle to provide energy until plasma glucose and glycogen levels are restored.

Post workout, since the immediate energy need is not as great, the body will attempt to conserve fat and switch to biggest draw on currently available energy resources, muscle tissue.

This is the time that post workout calories, and carbohydrates are required.
When calories and carbohydrates are consumed immediately post workout, glucose will enter the blood stream, insulin will be released, and cortisol levels will return to normal.

Therefore the key to preventing muscle loss from fasted state morning cardio is to ensure that post workout carbohydrates are available immediately after training.

Cortisol has a very useful purpose in our body. It is not the evil hormone that some make it out to be. The key is to use cortisol to our advantage to help mobilize and burn fat, but keep the levels of cortisol minimized when not actively training. Post workout nutrition is the key to this.

- EME

**skelooth** · 03-01-2006, 01:50 AM

Do you recommend taking PWO nutrition after sessions of cardio?

**EME** · 03-01-2006, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

Do you recommend taking PWO nutrition after sessions of cardio?

LOL, Did you read anything I just wrote????

- EME

**bubba g** · 03-01-2006, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

yeah I will echo that water thing! But I still think a fat meal is better, just personal opinion :saint:

I am not sure what you mean by fat meal. Do you mean it as a large meal? Or do you mean a meal high in EFAs?

If you mean it as a large meal, this will spike your insulin, and ruin any chance you had at burning fat for a while....

If you mean EFAs then I agree it is good to take some in before morning cardio, along with lots of water, and a small meal..

**bubba g** · 03-01-2006, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

Do you recommend taking PWO nutrition after sessions of cardio?

LMAO.... I made the part bold so you wont miss it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by EME

Whether or not to do fasted state cardio depends the individual, how much fat they have to lose, and their propensity for fat and muscle loss.

Eartly morning fasted state cardio is a technique that has been used successfully by bodybuilders, including myself, for decades.

There are some key points about cortisol elevation that many confuse and don't fully understand.

Cortisol elevation during short duration training is not a bad thing.

Many people only focus on the fact that Cortisol is responsible for muscle loss. Cortisol is also the hormone responsible for mobilizing and burning fat when plasma glucose is burned up.

During exercise, fat is a much more efficient source of energy than muscle protein. Fat provides more energy per gram and much easier to convert to energy than muscle protein.

During periods of exercise induced stress, your body wants the fastest and most efficient source of energy available. During training it will turn to stored fat for energy before turning to stored muscle.

Post exercise is the period of time when muscle protein comes into jeopardy.

When the immediate energy needs of the exercise induced stress are over, and cortisol levels are still elevated, your body will switch from fat to muscle to provide energy until plasma glucose and glycogen levels are restored.

Post workout, since the immediate energy need is not as great, the body will attempt to conserve fat and switch to biggest draw on currently available energy resources, muscle tissue.

This is the time that post workout calories, and carbohydrates are required.
When calories and carbohydrates are consumed immediately post workout, glucose will enter the blood stream, insulin will be released, and cortisol levels will return to normal.

Therefore the key to preventing muscle loss from fasted state morning cardio is to ensure that post workout carbohydrates are available immediately after training.

Cortisol has a very useful purpose in our body. It is not the evil hormone that some make it out to be. The key is to use cortisol to our advantage to help mobilize and burn fat, but keep the levels of cortisol minimized when not actively training. Post workout nutrition is the key to this.

- EME

**skelooth** · 03-01-2006, 02:01 AM

no, i mean, fat, as in 20g of fat. EFA or not.

When I am cutting I use a CKD and I have seen MUCH better results cutting with high fat diets.

**skelooth** · 03-01-2006, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EME

LOL, Did you read anything I just wrote????

- EME

LOL Well, yes, but it's not really common to see PWO shakes recommended after cardio sessions. At least not on the fat loss board at *******.com where i learned most of what I know.

**EME** · 03-01-2006, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

LOL Well, yes, but it's not really common to see PWO shakes recommended after cardio sessions. At least not on the fat loss board at *******.com where i learned most of what I know.

Well bro..... I don't know what to tell you there.

Postworkout nutrition after cardio is standard practice when burning fat for bodybuilding.

Cardio burns plasma glucose. When plasma glucose is burned up, cortisol levels are elevated to induce the burning of stored energy. That's what cortisol does... it releases stored energy in times of stress.

If you don't do something about your elevated cortisol post workout... it's going to start burning muscle.... and that you don't want.

Your muscles like full glycogen stores... if keeping muscle is important to you... keep cortisol levels lowered and keep your muscles full of glycogen.

- EME

**bubba g** · 03-01-2006, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

no, i mean, fat, as in 20g of fat. EFA or not.

When I am cutting I use a CKD and I have seen MUCH better results cutting with high fat diets.

When I cut I do this

wake up go for a brisk walk in the morning for an hour, and a brisk walk at night for an hour. I will switch it up with riding my mountain bike.. not fast just a medium pace...

I eat a little less per meal the first week, then cut back a little more the next week then a little more the week after that, I have two days every week where I eat my regular size meals...

I lose about 2 lbs of fat per week doing this. and I can hardly tell I am dieting.... I eat everything I normaly eat...

everyone is different though, I am sure it wont work for everyone..

**skelooth** · 03-01-2006, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EME

Well bro..... I don't know what to tell you there.

Postworkout nutrition after cardio is standard practice when burning fat for bodybuilding.

Cardio burns plasma glucose. When plasma glucose is burned up, cortisol levels are elevated to induce the burning of stored energy. That's what cortisol does... it releases stored energy in times of stress.

If you don't do something about your elevated cortisol post workout... it's going to start burning muscle.... and that you don't want.

Your muscles like full glycogen stores... if keeping muscle is important to you... keep cortisol levels lowered and keep your muscles full of glycogen.

- EME

What "type" of pwo nutrition are we talking about? Are talking about an all out 40g of protein and 80g of maltodextrin with a handful of antioxidants? Or are we talking more like a scoop of whey and half a banana?

**EME** · 03-01-2006, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

What "type" of pwo nutrition are we talking about? Are talking about an all out 40g of protein and 80g of maltodextrin with a handful of antioxidants? Or are we talking more like a scoop of whey and half a banana?

The post workout nutrition necessary would depend on many things Skel.
Your body size, the duration and type of your cardio,etc.

If you are doing morning fasted state cardio, you'll definitely want carbs immediately post workout, and I like to follow that a little later ( 30-60 mins ) with protein. The type of carbs is really your choice. Simple or complex.

The amount of carbs will definitely depend on your size and weight, and what you determine works best for you. A 110 lb woman would not need the same amount of carbs post workout that a 200 lb man would.

I personally don't ever take in 80g of sugar post workout, but I know some guys who take in 200g.

Cardio is a workout, just like weight training is. Both burn plasma glucose, and both use up stored glycogen. They may do it slightly differently, or at different rates, but both are stresses to the body which increase cortisol release and require post workout nutrition.

You really should not treat your cardio sessions any different than you do your weight training sessions. The same type of post workout nutrition can and will work equally well after both types of workouts.

- EME

xsquizet · 03-01-2006, 02:51 AM

wow thanks eme i learned alot.

View Poll Results: Cardio Fasted?
Fasted Morning Cardio is good	8	50.00%
Fasted Morning Cardio is bad	8	50.00%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

03-01-2006, 01:28 AM	#1
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,200 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	Cardio Fasted, or not? Personally I don't think fasted cardio is a good idea at all. Being that cortisol levels are high in the morning, it's a recipe for muscle catabolism. I like to have a small fat meal in the morning before cardio, like a tblspn of olive oil and a hard boiled egg or something. Make your choice and give any reason why you are for or against fasted cardio. It's not really meant to be a debate, as much as it is to see where people stand and which one is more popular amongst Iron Mass Posters __________________ http://loseover100lbs.com/misc-f7.html

03-01-2006, 01:36 AM	#3
davtown OM NOM NOM NOM Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 2,360 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 128	I voted against it, although I have done it before. Sometimes you don't want to get out of bed and eat a meal just to get back in bed again. As far as doing out-of-bed fasted morning cardio.... nah, not for me. __________________ --Training Journal-- current/goal D: 350/380 S: 280/300 B: 235/260

03-01-2006, 01:44 AM	#4
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,200 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	yeah I will echo that water thing! But I still think a fat meal is better, just personal opinion :saint: __________________ http://loseover100lbs.com/misc-f7.html

03-01-2006, 01:46 AM	#5
EME Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,264 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	Whether or not to do fasted state cardio depends the individual, how much fat they have to lose, and their propensity for fat and muscle loss. Eartly morning fasted state cardio is a technique that has been used successfully by bodybuilders, including myself, for decades. There are some key points about cortisol elevation that many confuse and don't fully understand. Cortisol elevation during short duration training is not a bad thing. Many people only focus on the fact that Cortisol is responsible for muscle loss. Cortisol is also the hormone responsible for mobilizing and burning fat when plasma glucose is burned up. During exercise, fat is a much more efficient source of energy than muscle protein. Fat provides more energy per gram and much easier to convert to energy than muscle protein. During periods of exercise induced stress, your body wants the fastest and most efficient source of energy available. During training it will turn to stored fat for energy before turning to stored muscle. Post exercise is the period of time when muscle protein comes into jeopardy. When the immediate energy needs of the exercise induced stress are over, and cortisol levels are still elevated, your body will switch from fat to muscle to provide energy until plasma glucose and glycogen levels are restored. Post workout, since the immediate energy need is not as great, the body will attempt to conserve fat and switch to biggest draw on currently available energy resources, muscle tissue. This is the time that post workout calories, and carbohydrates are required. When calories and carbohydrates are consumed immediately post workout, glucose will enter the blood stream, insulin will be released, and cortisol levels will return to normal. Therefore the key to preventing muscle loss from fasted state morning cardio is to ensure that post workout carbohydrates are available immediately after training. Cortisol has a very useful purpose in our body. It is not the evil hormone that some make it out to be. The key is to use cortisol to our advantage to help mobilize and burn fat, but keep the levels of cortisol minimized when not actively training. Post workout nutrition is the key to this. - EME __________________ PhysiqueFXonline - Online Nutrition and Training with Michael and Kendra Elias: www.PhysiqueFXonline.com www.MichaelandKendra.com My wife, and IFBB Fitness Pro Kendra Elias' personal site: www.KendraElias.com Proud member of Team ALR: www.ALRIndustries.com

03-01-2006, 01:50 AM	#6
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,200 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	Do you recommend taking PWO nutrition after sessions of cardio? __________________ http://loseover100lbs.com/misc-f7.html

03-01-2006, 02:01 AM	#10
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,200 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	no, i mean, fat, as in 20g of fat. EFA or not. When I am cutting I use a CKD and I have seen MUCH better results cutting with high fat diets. __________________ http://loseover100lbs.com/misc-f7.html

03-01-2006, 02:51 AM	#16
xsquizet Amateur Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: good ol south huntsville alabama Posts: 71 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 3	wow thanks eme i learned alot. __________________ visit my myspace page www.myspace.com/xsquizet