Spiking insulin levels during workout?...

Hybrid · 10-23-2005, 09:53 PM

This is gonna sound a bit stupid, but I was wonderin about this at work.

I know that after 1 - 1 1/2 hours of lifting your cortisol levels in your body become too high, and makes your body go catabolic. I also know that spiking your insulin levels prevents this catabolism. Sooooo, let's say I lifted for 1 hour. Then, I had 80g of dextrose + 40g of protein. Wouldn't that spike insulin levels, prevent coritsol production, and rush protein to my muscles, allowing me to workout longer??

**DJSTARER** · 10-23-2005, 11:57 PM

I've questioned this as well. There are a few ways to answer this.

a) Yes, eating sugar during your workout may be beneficial to supressing cortisol levels. Understand, though, that cortisol is largely dependent on genetics. Everyone will release the chemical at SOME point of duration. Many release it after 45 minutes, others, almost two hours. There is no real practical way to know, so I say, take a banana and BAAC tab with you. That should do you fine.

b) That was the answer to your question, but in my opinion, there is no need for that question to be presented. Why no just keep your workouts intense and short. That is, there is NO reason 45 minutes or 1 hour shouldn't be enought o sufficiently work your muscles for effective hypertrophy. If you make every rep of every set count, you should be able to lift no longer than this anyway. I see people on the SAME EXERCISE during my entire circut. Just be efficient, intense, and of course...

Don't forget your multi

Hybrid · 10-24-2005, 11:32 AM

I don't think I would really want to lift for more than 45 minutes (I try to keep it as intense as possible), but if one day I wanted to try to just kill myself by going all freaking out until I couldn't rep the 10lb dumbells, It would obviously take longer than 45 minutes.

BBAddict · 10-24-2005, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hybrid

kill myself by going all freaking out until I couldn't rep the 10lb dumbells, It would obviously take longer than 45 minutes.

You'd be surprised-ever do drop sets with no rest at all? It's amazing how heavy 5 or 10lbs can feel! I do it on bis every once in a while and it burns so good!

Hybrid · 10-24-2005, 01:47 PM

I was pissed because I failed on my 3rd set of flat bench today (usually do 4) so I did drop sets like all freakin' hell on nearly every exercise.

**A.FreeRadical** · 10-24-2005, 02:04 PM

I drink a protein shake made with 2 scoops of whey and orange juice during my workouts. (I never workout more than an hour though.) I follow this with a salad and 6 oz. of tuna when I get home. All of this is an attempt to avoid the cortisol release by keeping the insulin high. I can't say if it doing that or not. Theoretically, this should do the job.

*

**DJSTARER** · 10-24-2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.FreeRadical

I drink a protein shake made with 2 scoops of whey and orange juice during my workouts. (I never workout more than an hour though.) I follow this with a salad and 6 oz. of tuna when I get home. All of this is an attempt to avoid the cortisol release by keeping the insulin high. I can't say if it doing that or not. Theoretically, this should do the job.

*

I do similar, but with small amonts of dextrose instead of OJ, and only 1 scoop of whey.

Where are your carbs PWO? Not a believer?

Don't forget your multi

**EME** · 10-24-2005, 03:43 PM

People are often so freaked out by word "Cortisol" that they fail to realize that cortisol does good things for you too.

During your workout, elevated cortisol levels are not such a bad thing. It's after you workout that elevated cortisol becomes a real problem.

During periods of stress on the body, cortisol is released to provide additional sources of energy to fuel your workout.

When you burn up your plasma gluscose and glycogen, cortisol levels kick up to start burning your stored energy for fuel.

Here is the important part:

During training, fat is a more efficient energy source than muscle. Your body wants to use the most efficient source of energy to fuel it's immediate needs.

It's a much more involved process to pull amino acids from the muscle cells, send them to the liver, covert them to glucose, and then send them out into the blood stream... than it is to release and burn fat from your fat cells.

During your training, your body would rather use fat.

After your training, however, this process changes.

When you have elevated blood cortisol levels after your workout is over, this is where muscle becomes jeopardized.

Since your immediate calorie needs are not so high after your training when you are at rest again, your body will switch sources of stored energy at this point. It is after your workout, that your body will begin the process of glucogenesis using muscle proteins and save your stored fat for future needs.

This is why it's essential to take in post workout carbs and calories to reduce elevated cortisol after you workout.

Now, this is not to say that consuming some calories during your workout is particularly bad.

Plasma glucose is a much more efficicient source of energy than stored fat, and if performance is your goal, then you will do well to take in additional carbs as you train.

However, if you are looking to lower bodyfat, let the cortisol do something good for you. As long as your aren't a marathon runner and training for hours and hours at a time, you'll burn more fat and still keep your muscle by saving your insulin spike until after your workout.

- EME

**A.FreeRadical** · 10-24-2005, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJSTARER

I do similar, but with small amonts of dextrose instead of OJ, and only 1 scoop of whey.

Where are your carbs PWO? Not a believer?

Don't forget your multi

I am not opposed to the PWO shake. I don't like taking empty calories, that is why I use OJ in my workout drink. At least I am getting some calcium, fiber and some vitamiin C with my shake.

I figure the 2 scoops of whey and 16 oz of OJ are going to carry me insulin-wise for an hour or two after my workout. So I am eating a salad loaded with veggies and protein no more than 30 minutes after my workout. I haven't sensed any drop in blood sugar (food cravings, feeling tired, etc.).

The other reason is, I finish working out around 4:30-5:00 pm. I don't want any simple carbs, sucrose, lactose or fructose after 5:00 pm. (I sometimes do allow myself a plain non fat yogurt with fresh berries or mixed nuts as a before bed snack when I get a craving for ice cream. Yogurt has lactose in it.)

Edit: After reading EMEs reply, it reminded me that should mention that I am bulking. IOWs I and trying to increase strength and muscle.

*

**DJSTARER** · 10-24-2005, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.FreeRadical

I am not opposed to the PWO shake. I don't like taking empty calories, that is why I use OJ in my workout drink. At least I am getting some calcium, fiber and some vitamiin C with my shake.

I figure the 2 scoops of whey and 16 oz of OJ are going to carry me insulin-wise for an hour or two after my workout. So I am eating a salad loaded with veggies and protein no more than 30 minutes after my workout. I haven't sensed any drop in blood sugar (food cravings, feeling tired, etc.).

The other reason is, I finish working out around 4:30-5:00 pm. I don't want any simple carbs, sucrose, lactose or fructose after 5:00 pm. (I sometimes do allow myself a plain non fat yogurt with fresh berries or mixed nuts as a before bed snack when I get a craving for ice cream. Yogurt has lactose in it.)

Edit: After reading EMEs reply, it reminded me that should mention that I am bulking. IOWs I and trying to increase strength and muscle.

*

I can respect the logic here. I love the idea of veggies PWO instead of the standard multi. I'm not a HUGE fan of supplementation. The only thing I look at here with a bit of disagreement is the carbs PPWO. I know you don't want any carbs later in the day... but PWO? There is no reason to be afraid of CHO after you lift. As long as there is room in your muscles, no fat will be stored.

I can understand the fear, which is why I recommend earlier workouts. Of course, I am a school student, so it is easy for me to fit it in. People who workout at like 10pm can (and definately should) eat an abundance of carbs right before bed. There is nothing they can do. If anything, the carbs will help a person fall asleep.

That is just my take

Don't forget you Multi

Steve_W · 10-24-2005, 10:51 PM

Thank you, EME sir.

It's not the cortisol related response to exercise that is bad, it's excess cortisol secretion via stress, anxiety etc etc that is bad. If you have a wife, kids, financial issues you get the drift then it may be wise to take steps to reduce cortisol for your physique goals, however people misunderstand that there is nothing wrong with the cortisol related response to exercise.

HAYWOOD JABLOME · 10-27-2005, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_W

there is nothing wrong with the cortisol related response to exercise.

there is if nothing is done about it post w/o

**EME** · 10-27-2005, 05:13 PM

Agreed. After training, it is essential to reduce elevated cortisol to prevent burning muscle.

- EME

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAYWOOD JABLOME

there is if nothing is done about it post w/o

datruodb · 10-27-2005, 10:37 PM

Gosh I am glad I know EME....He is a book of info!!!!

10-23-2005, 09:53 PM	#1
Hybrid IMPC Contestant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gibsonia PA Posts: 824 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 13	Spiking insulin levels during workout?... This is gonna sound a bit stupid, but I was wonderin about this at work. I know that after 1 - 1 1/2 hours of lifting your cortisol levels in your body become too high, and makes your body go catabolic. I also know that spiking your insulin levels prevents this catabolism. Sooooo, let's say I lifted for 1 hour. Then, I had 80g of dextrose + 40g of protein. Wouldn't that spike insulin levels, prevent coritsol production, and rush protein to my muscles, allowing me to workout longer?? __________________ If you even dream about beating me you'd better wake up and apologize - Muhammad Ali

10-23-2005, 11:57 PM	#2
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,041 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 114	I've questioned this as well. There are a few ways to answer this. a) Yes, eating sugar during your workout may be beneficial to supressing cortisol levels. Understand, though, that cortisol is largely dependent on genetics. Everyone will release the chemical at SOME point of duration. Many release it after 45 minutes, others, almost two hours. There is no real practical way to know, so I say, take a banana and BAAC tab with you. That should do you fine. b) That was the answer to your question, but in my opinion, there is no need for that question to be presented. Why no just keep your workouts intense and short. That is, there is NO reason 45 minutes or 1 hour shouldn't be enought o sufficiently work your muscles for effective hypertrophy. If you make every rep of every set count, you should be able to lift no longer than this anyway. I see people on the SAME EXERCISE during my entire circut. Just be efficient, intense, and of course... Don't forget your multi __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

10-24-2005, 11:32 AM	#3
Hybrid IMPC Contestant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gibsonia PA Posts: 824 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 13	I don't think I would really want to lift for more than 45 minutes (I try to keep it as intense as possible), but if one day I wanted to try to just kill myself by going all freaking out until I couldn't rep the 10lb dumbells, It would obviously take longer than 45 minutes. __________________ If you even dream about beating me you'd better wake up and apologize - Muhammad Ali

10-24-2005, 01:47 PM	#5
Hybrid IMPC Contestant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gibsonia PA Posts: 824 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 13	I was pissed because I failed on my 3rd set of flat bench today (usually do 4) so I did drop sets like all freakin' hell on nearly every exercise. __________________ If you even dream about beating me you'd better wake up and apologize - Muhammad Ali

10-24-2005, 02:04 PM	#6
A.FreeRadical the Epicurean Bodybuilder Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,245 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 58	I drink a protein shake made with 2 scoops of whey and orange juice during my workouts. (I never workout more than an hour though.) I follow this with a salad and 6 oz. of tuna when I get home. All of this is an attempt to avoid the cortisol release by keeping the insulin high. I can't say if it doing that or not. Theoretically, this should do the job. * __________________ "Is it going to be the red pill or the blue pill, Neo? The red pill will answer the question 'What is the Matrix?' Choose carefully. Remember, all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more." Ron Paul for President, 2008 A.FreeRadical ...the Epicurean bodybuilder Height: 5'9", Age: 62, My last high on 2/1/2006 was 196 lbs. My last low on 8/08/2006 was 167.5 lbs. Cutting until I am lean Starting weight: 190 lbs. bodyfat: 19.7% November 27th: 183 lbs. bodyfat: 18.3% bodyfat Goal Weight: 176 lbs with no more than 10% bodyfat My recipe collection

10-24-2005, 03:43 PM	#8
EME Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,264 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	People are often so freaked out by word "Cortisol" that they fail to realize that cortisol does good things for you too. During your workout, elevated cortisol levels are not such a bad thing. It's after you workout that elevated cortisol becomes a real problem. During periods of stress on the body, cortisol is released to provide additional sources of energy to fuel your workout. When you burn up your plasma gluscose and glycogen, cortisol levels kick up to start burning your stored energy for fuel. Here is the important part: During training, fat is a more efficient energy source than muscle. Your body wants to use the most efficient source of energy to fuel it's immediate needs. It's a much more involved process to pull amino acids from the muscle cells, send them to the liver, covert them to glucose, and then send them out into the blood stream... than it is to release and burn fat from your fat cells. During your training, your body would rather use fat. After your training, however, this process changes. When you have elevated blood cortisol levels after your workout is over, this is where muscle becomes jeopardized. Since your immediate calorie needs are not so high after your training when you are at rest again, your body will switch sources of stored energy at this point. It is after your workout, that your body will begin the process of glucogenesis using muscle proteins and save your stored fat for future needs. This is why it's essential to take in post workout carbs and calories to reduce elevated cortisol after you workout. Now, this is not to say that consuming some calories during your workout is particularly bad. Plasma glucose is a much more efficicient source of energy than stored fat, and if performance is your goal, then you will do well to take in additional carbs as you train. However, if you are looking to lower bodyfat, let the cortisol do something good for you. As long as your aren't a marathon runner and training for hours and hours at a time, you'll burn more fat and still keep your muscle by saving your insulin spike until after your workout. - EME __________________ PhysiqueFXonline - Online Nutrition and Training with Michael and Kendra Elias: www.PhysiqueFXonline.com www.MichaelandKendra.com My wife, and IFBB Fitness Pro Kendra Elias' personal site: www.KendraElias.com Proud member of Team ALR: www.ALRIndustries.com

10-24-2005, 10:51 PM	#11
Steve_W Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 105 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	Thank you, EME sir. It's not the cortisol related response to exercise that is bad, it's excess cortisol secretion via stress, anxiety etc etc that is bad. If you have a wife, kids, financial issues you get the drift then it may be wise to take steps to reduce cortisol for your physique goals, however people misunderstand that there is nothing wrong with the cortisol related response to exercise.

10-27-2005, 10:37 PM	#14
datruodb Pro Stature Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tulsa, Ok Posts: 326 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	Gosh I am glad I know EME....He is a book of info!!!! __________________ Vanilla Gorilla

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