Pos-workout carbs

leanmass · 01-16-2007, 03:19 PM

Everyone talks about the importance of carbs such as dext and malto for pos-workout recovery. My question is, if it is so important, why do brands sell protein low in carbs as much as possible? Isn´t there anything else better than these carbs for pos-workout that could make the same effect when it comes to insulin stimulation? Does malto and dextro create fat storage?

I would appreciate your help because i would like to reduce my carbs intake as much as possible to get leanner than ever before.

**A.FreeRadical** · 01-16-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leanmass

Everyone talks about the importance of carbs such as dext and malto for pos-workout recovery. My question is, if it is so important, why do brands sell protein low in carbs as much as possible? Isn´t there anything else better than these carbs for pos-workout that could make the same effect when it comes to insulin stimulation? Does malto and dextro create fat storage?

I would appreciate your help because i would like to reduce my carbs intake as much as possible to get leanner than ever before.

I use a dextrose / whey shake for post work out. I don't want this combo for pre-workout because it would cause my blood sugar to go high and then go low during my workout. For pre-workout I eat oatmeal. This fuels my workouts quite nicely.

*

**madman911** · 01-16-2007, 06:04 PM

The only time you want to add simple carbs to your whey is intra or post-workout... that's why most protein products are low in carbs. It is very simple and cheap to add dextrose/maltodextrin or even table sugar very effectively spike insulin. There is no way to induce an insulin spike without eating carbs. Post-workout, nearly all the carbs you take in are going to be shuttled into your muscles, as long as you don't overdo the carbs. 30-40 grams of simple carbs pwo is really all you need. Fat storage from your post-workout shake isn't a major concern, but the types and amount of carbs you eat the rest of the day certainly are. There's a hell of a lot more to getting really lean than just dropping carbs. Going too low with your carbs will have a negative impact. You also need properly timed refeeds.

Please post the full diet that you're considering using and you can get some better advice.

**DJSTARER** · 01-16-2007, 06:37 PM

this is one of the most highly debated subject in bodybuilding/sports training. The fact is, there is no clear cut answer. Many variables are present, including glucose stores, genetics, intensity of training and goals. Personally, I try to find a nice median. While many people tend to do 50 or even 100g of sugar PWO, I believe, like Afree said, 30-40 grams i more than enough as long as your PRE-WORKOUT meals are good and as long as you follow the PWO shake with a large starchy meal. If you are a hard gainer, are cutting, or have spent way too much time in the gym, more sugar may be appropriate.

leanmass · 01-16-2007, 08:02 PM

Thanks a lot! A never take a real meal after work out because i thought this could interfear in the absortion of glutamine that i take.

These are my daily meals, please help me to correct them if i should change anything. My goal is to gain about 6lb of lean muscle without increasing BF. I have managed this before with halodrol-50 but i would like to do it again without needing a pro-h.

I´m about 135Lb and 6.5%BF

1st meal: Sweat potato, tuna fish or chiken breast with 1 egg white, whey protein, leucine and multivit

2nd meal: tuna with brown rice

Lunch: Lots of meat (never pork or duck) with vegetables, green beans, broccolis and EFAS.

4th meal: meat sandwish

5th meal: meat sandwish and nuts

Workout

pos-workout: Leucine, whey protein, glutamine, Rala, vitC and the malto/dextro 40g that you kindly suggested!

Dinner: Tuna or meat with vegetables and EFAS

before bedtime: whey protein, leucine, glutamine

please let me know your thoughts!

AMDuser · 01-16-2007, 09:25 PM

Before bed, you want to try Micellar Casein instead. Whey Protein will digest too quickly. You need something that will feed your muscles the entire time you're sleeping. I'd recommend something such as Dorian Yates ProPeptide, Beverly International Ultimate Muscle Protein, Designer Nutrition Sustain or Xtreme Formulations Ultra Peptide.

The best one of the bunch I've mentioned above is probably UMP, followed closely by ProPeptide.

You may also want to check this out:

http://ironmass.com/showthread.php?t=2594

Best of Luck!

leanmass · 01-16-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMDuser

Before bed, you want to try Micellar Casein instead. Whey Protein will digest too quickly. You need something that will feed your muscles the entire time you're sleeping. I'd recommend something such as Dorian Yates ProPeptide, Beverly International Ultimate Muscle Protein, Designer Nutrition Sustain or Xtreme Formulations Ultra Peptide.

The best one of the bunch I've mentioned above is probably UMP, followed closely by ProPeptide.

You may also want to check this out:

http://ironmass.com/showthread.php?t=2594

Best of Luck!

thanks for the tip! I don´t know why but casein is very difficult to find in my country, this is why i don´t take it. the ones we can buy have horrible taste and are twice the price of whey!

**DJSTARER** · 01-16-2007, 11:37 PM

caseinates are generally more expensive because they only comprise of 20% if the protein in milk. The less available it is, the more expensive... simple economics. Animal products are also an option before bed. Any type of meat... even the fatty stuff.

**DJSTARER** · 01-16-2007, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leanmass

Thanks a lot! A never take a real meal after work out because i thought this could interfear in the absortion of glutamine that i take.

These are my daily meals, please help me to correct them if i should change anything. My goal is to gain about 6lb of lean muscle without increasing BF. I have managed this before with halodrol-50 but i would like to do it again without needing a pro-h.

I´m about 135Lb and 6.5%BF

1st meal: Sweat potato, tuna fish or chiken breast with 1 egg white, whey protein, leucine and multivit

2nd meal: tuna with brown rice

Lunch: Lots of meat (never pork or duck) with vegetables, green beans, broccolis and EFAS.

4th meal: meat sandwish

5th meal: meat sandwish and nuts

Workout

pos-workout: Leucine, whey protein, glutamine, Rala, vitC and the malto/dextro 40g that you kindly suggested!

Dinner: Tuna or meat with vegetables and EFAS

before bedtime: whey protein, leucine, glutamine

please let me know your thoughts!

you have an ectomorphic build. Add more carbs at ALL meals

**A.FreeRadical** · 01-16-2007, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJSTARER

you have an ectomorphic build. Add more carbs at ALL meals

Good call. If he then is getting too many calories, he can cut back on some of the protein. There seems to be way more there than he needs at 135 lbs. I am not sure what is in "meat sandwiches" and "lots of meat", but tuna doesn't have much fat. Chicken has some fats and nuts do too. Maybe some more healthy fats (olive oil, natural peanut butter) might added to his meals too. (Saturated fats in moderation can help also. )

Some skim milk or fat free plain yogurt before bed might be good too if he can't get or afford caseinates.

*

**davtown** · 01-17-2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJSTARER

caseinates are generally more expensive because they only comprise of 20% if the protein in milk.

I believe it's the other way around.... casein makes up 80% of the protein in milk while whey makes up 20%.

http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/dairy....html#protein1

The little chart right there breaks it down...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but whey is a byproduct of cheese making... I figured that because of the cheese industry, a bunch of whey is leftover that can be sold. I might be completely off on this thinking as I have never looked into it, but it might be a contributing factor...

**boyscouT** · 01-17-2007, 07:41 PM

Yup, milk = 80% casein, 20% whey. ^^^^^^^^^^

leanmass · 01-17-2007, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJSTARER

you have an ectomorphic build. Add more carbs at ALL meals

what carbs do you suggest? I don´t want to get any BF

**madman911** · 01-17-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leanmass

what carbs do you suggest? I don´t want to get any BF

You're 6.5% body fat and you want to gain 6 lbs of lean mass. If you want to do this naturally and efficiently, lean bulk and put on 12 lbs of mass over 2-3 months and you will remain under 10%. Then, cut down for 2 months and you'll be back at 6.5% with hopefully 6 added pounds.

Don't be so concerned with gaining some fat if you want to add mass and do it relatively quickly. Trying to gain mass while maintaining a very low body fat % is really not easily achievable naturally, or even unaturally... for most individuals it will not be achievable, period.

leanmass · 01-17-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.FreeRadical

There seems to be way more there than he needs at 135 lbs. Maybe some more healthy fats (olive oil, natural peanut butter) might added to his meals too. (Saturated fats in moderation can help also. )
*

I dont feel like its more than my needs because i´m very light comparing to my mass. Everybody at the gym thinks i weight about 150lb.
I didn´t mention before, but i ingest lots of olive oil, i love it!
How many onces of milk should i ingest to kind of substitute casein?

leanmass · 01-17-2007, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman911

You're 6.5% body fat and you want to gain 6 lbs of lean mass. If you want to do this naturally and efficiently, lean bulk and put on 12 lbs of mass over 2-3 months and you will remain under 10%. Then, cut down for 2 months and you'll be back at 6.5% with hopefully 6 added pounds.

Don't be so concerned with gaining some fat if you want to add mass and do it relatively quickly. Trying to gain mass while maintaining a very low body fat % is really not easily achievable naturally, or even unaturally... for most individuals it will not be achievable, period.

thanks for the info! I have tryed before, eating more carbs and fat. I got more weight, but maybe 90% was really fat weight. I think the way my sistem works, i get the same muscle either eating carbs and fat or eating more clean.

**DJSTARER** · 01-17-2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leanmass

what carbs do you suggest? I don´t want to get any BF

fruit and starch

01-16-2007, 03:19 PM	#1
leanmass IMPC Contestant Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Lisbon PORTUGAL Posts: 133 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 8	Pos-workout carbs Everyone talks about the importance of carbs such as dext and malto for pos-workout recovery. My question is, if it is so important, why do brands sell protein low in carbs as much as possible? Isn´t there anything else better than these carbs for pos-workout that could make the same effect when it comes to insulin stimulation? Does malto and dextro create fat storage? I would appreciate your help because i would like to reduce my carbs intake as much as possible to get leanner than ever before.

01-16-2007, 06:04 PM	#3
madman911 Metamorphosizing Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Area Posts: 1,531 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 60	The only time you want to add simple carbs to your whey is intra or post-workout... that's why most protein products are low in carbs. It is very simple and cheap to add dextrose/maltodextrin or even table sugar very effectively spike insulin. There is no way to induce an insulin spike without eating carbs. Post-workout, nearly all the carbs you take in are going to be shuttled into your muscles, as long as you don't overdo the carbs. 30-40 grams of simple carbs pwo is really all you need. Fat storage from your post-workout shake isn't a major concern, but the types and amount of carbs you eat the rest of the day certainly are. There's a hell of a lot more to getting really lean than just dropping carbs. Going too low with your carbs will have a negative impact. You also need properly timed refeeds. Please post the full diet that you're considering using and you can get some better advice. __________________ Millennium Sport Technologies Sponsored Athlete http://www.millenniumsport.net IMPC 2006 Novice Division Champ IMPC 2007 Open Division Champ Never underestimate the power of the bandana.

01-16-2007, 06:37 PM	#4
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,049 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 114	this is one of the most highly debated subject in bodybuilding/sports training. The fact is, there is no clear cut answer. Many variables are present, including glucose stores, genetics, intensity of training and goals. Personally, I try to find a nice median. While many people tend to do 50 or even 100g of sugar PWO, I believe, like Afree said, 30-40 grams i more than enough as long as your PRE-WORKOUT meals are good and as long as you follow the PWO shake with a large starchy meal. If you are a hard gainer, are cutting, or have spent way too much time in the gym, more sugar may be appropriate. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

01-16-2007, 09:25 PM	#6
AMDuser Amateur Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 41 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	Before bed, you want to try Micellar Casein instead. Whey Protein will digest too quickly. You need something that will feed your muscles the entire time you're sleeping. I'd recommend something such as Dorian Yates ProPeptide, Beverly International Ultimate Muscle Protein, Designer Nutrition Sustain or Xtreme Formulations Ultra Peptide. The best one of the bunch I've mentioned above is probably UMP, followed closely by ProPeptide. You may also want to check this out: http://ironmass.com/showthread.php?t=2594 Best of Luck! __________________ Eat, Sleep, Lift. Eat like a horse. Life like a demon. Sleep like the dead.

01-16-2007, 11:37 PM	#8
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,049 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 114	caseinates are generally more expensive because they only comprise of 20% if the protein in milk. The less available it is, the more expensive... simple economics. Animal products are also an option before bed. Any type of meat... even the fatty stuff. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

01-16-2007, 08:02 PM	#5
leanmass IMPC Contestant Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Lisbon PORTUGAL Posts: 133 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 8	Thanks a lot! A never take a real meal after work out because i thought this could interfear in the absortion of glutamine that i take. These are my daily meals, please help me to correct them if i should change anything. My goal is to gain about 6lb of lean muscle without increasing BF. I have managed this before with halodrol-50 but i would like to do it again without needing a pro-h. I´m about 135Lb and 6.5%BF 1st meal: Sweat potato, tuna fish or chiken breast with 1 egg white, whey protein, leucine and multivit 2nd meal: tuna with brown rice Lunch: Lots of meat (never pork or duck) with vegetables, green beans, broccolis and EFAS. 4th meal: meat sandwish 5th meal: meat sandwish and nuts Workout pos-workout: Leucine, whey protein, glutamine, Rala, vitC and the malto/dextro 40g that you kindly suggested! Dinner: Tuna or meat with vegetables and EFAS before bedtime: whey protein, leucine, glutamine please let me know your thoughts!

01-17-2007, 07:41 PM	#12
boyscouT IronMass Sponsor Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 456 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 37	Yup, milk = 80% casein, 20% whey. ^^^^^^^^^^