Opinions and advice needed: Early morning workout.

**DJSTARER** · 05-23-2006, 02:26 AM

So I am working in Chicago now, and have found an awsome small gym to lift at. Currently, I work 6 days/week, from 8am to 8pm. My commute is about an hour each way, leaving me very little downtime. My diet has been good. I am currently cutting, and have been managing at work on packed rice, oats, pasta and whey shakes. My problem stood: When should I work out. The logical conclusion I came to was that I'd better workout BEFORE work. The gym opens at 5:30, which is plenty early. The question I am asking everyone is: What should my PRE and POST workout nutrition look like specifically in this situation. I will be waking up around 5 am, getting to the gym at 5:30, out at 6:15, shower, and off to work by 7.

Here is my plan. PLEASE CRITIQUE:

Wake-up/breakfast/pre-workout: 80 grams of dextrose and 40g of protein powder. My rational for this is the extreme quickness of the consumption and absorbtion of these nutrients. I will fuel my workout while keeping my body out of a cataboic state.

PWO/ Real breakfast: 40 gs Oats, 20 gs whey, 8 oz of skim milk and one slice of white bread. My rational for this is it combines all speeds of nutrients. The oats and milk for long term digestion and fuel for the beginning part of my day. The whey and white bread for quick workout recovery.

I know this is a lot of food, particularly simple carbs, for a 1.5 hours span of time. I just figure a) It is in the morning b) I need the quick fuel, and c) This will concentrate many of my daily carbs to one part of the day.

Any comments?

beavesmx44 · 05-23-2006, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJSTARER

Wake-up/breakfast/pre-workout: 80 grams of dextrose and 40g of protein powder.(I would switch this to a cup or so of oats and whey. If you put the oats in a coffee grinder they will be digested much faster. I would think from purely high gi carbs you may fade about mid workout. If you want the high gi, I would settle on half dex and half oats.)

PWO/ Real breakfast: 40 gs Oats, 20 gs whey, 8 oz of skim milk and one slice of white bread.(I would have my shake with water and drop the bread. The high/low gi debate has been beaten to death so choose what works for you. You need more carbs post-wo so add more oats. I have never been a fan of purely high gi carbs so once again a cup oats and around 20-30g dex if you want both)

I also work out after my first meal and I have eggs, oats, and a banana pre. Whey,oats, and dex post. But it sounds like I have more time than you to have a full breakfast before I lift.

**DJSTARER** · 05-23-2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beavesmx44

I also work out after my first meal and I have eggs, oats, and a banana pre. Whey,oats, and dex post. But it sounds like I have more time than you to have a full breakfast before I lift.

thanks for the input. I'll take it into consideration.

**Pioneer** · 05-25-2006, 02:11 PM

what is the amount of time between the two meals?

**DJSTARER** · 05-25-2006, 10:24 PM

an hour or so

**Pioneer** · 05-26-2006, 03:25 AM

sorry about that question i couldn't edit or delete it after i read it later. but i dont really see anything wrong with what youre doing. i dont know if all of that protein can be absorbed in one hour, even with the dextrose in it. but i dont think you can ever eat too much protein.

as for the all the carbs in the morning, i dont think it would be BETTER getting most of them in the morning rather then spreading them out through the day but it certainly wouldn't hurt you.

work with it for a few days, if you haven't already, and if you feel like youre getting the quick energy and aren't seeing any negatives to your lifts then stick with it. good luck, keep this updated.

**A.FreeRadical** · 05-26-2006, 11:40 AM

I read somewhere that you can't absorb more than 40-50 grams of protein in one setting. You say you are cutting. In a state of caloric deficit, I am not sure how you are going to benefit from dextrose or any simple carb with protein. The best I am able to do is preserve muscle on a cut. There is nothing scientific in the following. It is just something that I have learned from trial and error:

Pre workouts, I eat a big bowl of old fashioned oats and berries. During workouts I consume a whey and water shake. Post workout, I eat a protein source (chicken, tuna lean red meat) a long with whole grain bread or brown rice.

The oats are moderately glycemic and begin to digest about the time my whey is consumed during my workout. (If I use any simple carbs pre-workout, my blood suger crashes while working out. This leaves me weak and hungry.) This prevents my body from going catabolic during workouts. The post workout meal replenishes the protein and carbs about the time the oats and whey are finished being used by the body.

Whatever you do, keep in mind, you need to provide fuel and protein for your workout prior and during. This should be something that will hold you for 2-3 hours when the next meal is feeding fuel and protein into the blood stream.

*

Hybrid · 05-26-2006, 08:56 PM

I'd say 20g dextrose + 40g carbs from oats and any protein source at 40g 1 hour pre. The dextrose will spike insulin levels and quickly store into muscle glycogen, while the oats will be slower. After an hour you should have more than enough glycogen.

Post, just do whatever you feel. I'm a believer in simple carbs followed in 1 hour by complex. (40g simple, 60-70g complex 1 hour later). Dextrose would be good post here though as your glycogen levels won't be too full at this time.

You could also look into taking some dextrose during workout too. I might start doing this as I've talked to a sports nutritionist and read up more on nutrient timing (gatorade works suprisingly well as it's dextrose + salt and damn tasty!).

**DJSTARER** · 05-27-2006, 04:36 AM

Thanks for the replies everyone.

There is clearly a concensus that the use of complex AND simple carbs is important. As most things in bodybuilding, I will experiment with the amounts and combinations of both, along with timing.

I'll let everyone know what works for me.

sfiximo · 05-30-2006, 06:30 PM

i agree with hybrid.. i see no reason to have dextrose pre workout.. it would just make you feel slow during your workout. for breakfast you can have the traditional eggs and oatmeal.. you can make pancakes out of it:
400g eggs (i use 2 whole and the rest from egg whites)
50-100g oats (this depends for me if its high carb or low carb day)
1tsp baking powder
1tsp vanilla powder
sweetener like splenda
you can mix a crapload of it and just throw on the pan every morning it takes 10min to prepare..

post workout since you work after it i wouldnt have pure dex there either. id mix dextrose and maltodextrin or vitargo and maltodex (i think pure dex will make it really hard for ya later in work..) then add some whey powder whatever feels best for your stomach.

during work instead of bringing oats or whey you can make it easier for you and prepare all the meals the day you arent working..
whole wheat pasta+chicken breasts cut into smaller pieces = put them in a tupperware when theyre cooked and into the freezer, then you can warm them up at work, enjoy much better

brown rice+tuna
brown rice+ground beef+black beans
whole wheat sandwitch with salmon, tuna, chicken, lean ground beef..
or just the eggs+oats pancakes i mentioned

I know alot about this cause i was working 5 days a week last summer from 10 to 10

and will be doing it this week too... unfortunately if i have 2 meals at work ill be very stressed, i dont really have that much time.. so my plan is breakfast-pwo shake-meal at work-crapload of steak after work-mid night MRP shake (prolly a protein blend with peanut butter).. 5 meals totaling 300-375g protein and carbs will vary(300-100g), so will fats (50-150g)

**DJSTARER** · 05-30-2006, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfiximo

i agree with hybrid.. i see no reason to have dextrose pre workout.. it would just make you feel slow during your workout. for breakfast you can have the traditional eggs and oatmeal.. you can make pancakes out of it:
400g eggs (i use 2 whole and the rest from egg whites)
50-100g oats (this depends for me if its high carb or low carb day)
1tsp baking powder
1tsp vanilla powder
sweetener like splenda
you can mix a crapload of it and just throw on the pan every morning it takes 10min to prepare..

post workout since you work after it i wouldnt have pure dex there either. id mix dextrose and maltodextrin or vitargo and maltodex (i think pure dex will make it really hard for ya later in work..) then add some whey powder whatever feels best for your stomach.

during work instead of bringing oats or whey you can make it easier for you and prepare all the meals the day you arent working..
whole wheat pasta+chicken breasts cut into smaller pieces = put them in a tupperware when theyre cooked and into the freezer, then you can warm them up at work, enjoy much better

brown rice+tuna
brown rice+ground beef+black beans
whole wheat sandwitch with salmon, tuna, chicken, lean ground beef..
or just the eggs+oats pancakes i mentioned

I know alot about this cause i was working 5 days a week last summer from 10 to 10

and will be doing it this week too... unfortunately if i have 2 meals at work ill be very stressed, i dont really have that much time.. so my plan is breakfast-pwo shake-meal at work-crapload of steak after work-mid night MRP shake (prolly a protein blend with peanut butter).. 5 meals totaling 300-375g protein and carbs will vary(300-100g), so will fats (50-150g)

Thanks Sfiximo.

I also have had experience with eating clean in the workplace. I did the whole pre-cooking thing last year, and found it to be very much of a hastle. Having whole carbs and liquid protein has been working great for me. It also helps me keep hydrated (I am standing for about 8 hours straight teaching).

As for the morning workout, I'll take that advice seriously. What I've been doing involves eating carbs before bed each night. Many may be critical of this, but since I am cutting, I have no problem eating a large carb meal before bed. My muscles arn't full of glucose ANYWAY, so have a nice complex carb meal before bed lets me have significant anarobic energy for the morning. I have been sticking with oats and a slice of white bread pre-workout. And mixed dextrose with oats PWO.

any other opinions and points are always welcome.

sfiximo · 05-30-2006, 11:19 PM

i have more to discuss i gotta go to sleep now, hell if my mind breaks loose as it is doing now we could discuss nutrition worth 2 pages in a day

05-23-2006, 02:26 AM	#1
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,110 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 116	Opinions and advice needed: Early morning workout. So I am working in Chicago now, and have found an awsome small gym to lift at. Currently, I work 6 days/week, from 8am to 8pm. My commute is about an hour each way, leaving me very little downtime. My diet has been good. I am currently cutting, and have been managing at work on packed rice, oats, pasta and whey shakes. My problem stood: When should I work out. The logical conclusion I came to was that I'd better workout BEFORE work. The gym opens at 5:30, which is plenty early. The question I am asking everyone is: What should my PRE and POST workout nutrition look like specifically in this situation. I will be waking up around 5 am, getting to the gym at 5:30, out at 6:15, shower, and off to work by 7. Here is my plan. PLEASE CRITIQUE: Wake-up/breakfast/pre-workout: 80 grams of dextrose and 40g of protein powder. My rational for this is the extreme quickness of the consumption and absorbtion of these nutrients. I will fuel my workout while keeping my body out of a cataboic state. PWO/ Real breakfast: 40 gs Oats, 20 gs whey, 8 oz of skim milk and one slice of white bread. My rational for this is it combines all speeds of nutrients. The oats and milk for long term digestion and fuel for the beginning part of my day. The whey and white bread for quick workout recovery. I know this is a lot of food, particularly simple carbs, for a 1.5 hours span of time. I just figure a) It is in the morning b) I need the quick fuel, and c) This will concentrate many of my daily carbs to one part of the day. Any comments? __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

05-25-2006, 02:11 PM	#4
Pioneer Moderator Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,720 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 73	what is the amount of time between the two meals? __________________ "A Marine in battle fears disgracing himself by running. He fears not losing his life, but losing his honor. He may not be able to preserve his life, but he can always preserve his honor. That much is within his power... To fear disgrace but not death, to fear not duty but dereliction from duty -- this is courage." -FMFM 1-0 "Leading Marines" pg. 43 Drive on

05-25-2006, 10:24 PM	#5
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,110 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 116	an hour or so __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

05-26-2006, 03:25 AM	#6
Pioneer Moderator Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,720 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 73	sorry about that question i couldn't edit or delete it after i read it later. but i dont really see anything wrong with what youre doing. i dont know if all of that protein can be absorbed in one hour, even with the dextrose in it. but i dont think you can ever eat too much protein. as for the all the carbs in the morning, i dont think it would be BETTER getting most of them in the morning rather then spreading them out through the day but it certainly wouldn't hurt you. work with it for a few days, if you haven't already, and if you feel like youre getting the quick energy and aren't seeing any negatives to your lifts then stick with it. good luck, keep this updated. __________________ "A Marine in battle fears disgracing himself by running. He fears not losing his life, but losing his honor. He may not be able to preserve his life, but he can always preserve his honor. That much is within his power... To fear disgrace but not death, to fear not duty but dereliction from duty -- this is courage." -FMFM 1-0 "Leading Marines" pg. 43 Drive on

05-26-2006, 11:40 AM	#7
A.FreeRadical the Epicurean Bodybuilder Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,245 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 58	I read somewhere that you can't absorb more than 40-50 grams of protein in one setting. You say you are cutting. In a state of caloric deficit, I am not sure how you are going to benefit from dextrose or any simple carb with protein. The best I am able to do is preserve muscle on a cut. There is nothing scientific in the following. It is just something that I have learned from trial and error: Pre workouts, I eat a big bowl of old fashioned oats and berries. During workouts I consume a whey and water shake. Post workout, I eat a protein source (chicken, tuna lean red meat) a long with whole grain bread or brown rice. The oats are moderately glycemic and begin to digest about the time my whey is consumed during my workout. (If I use any simple carbs pre-workout, my blood suger crashes while working out. This leaves me weak and hungry.) This prevents my body from going catabolic during workouts. The post workout meal replenishes the protein and carbs about the time the oats and whey are finished being used by the body. Whatever you do, keep in mind, you need to provide fuel and protein for your workout prior and during. This should be something that will hold you for 2-3 hours when the next meal is feeding fuel and protein into the blood stream. * __________________ "Is it going to be the red pill or the blue pill, Neo? The red pill will answer the question 'What is the Matrix?' Choose carefully. Remember, all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more." Ron Paul for President, 2008 A.FreeRadical ...the Epicurean bodybuilder Height: 5'9", Age: 62, My last high on 2/1/2006 was 196 lbs. My last low on 8/08/2006 was 167.5 lbs. Cutting until I am lean Starting weight: 190 lbs. bodyfat: 19.7% November 27th: 183 lbs. bodyfat: 18.3% bodyfat Goal Weight: 176 lbs with no more than 10% bodyfat My recipe collection

05-26-2006, 08:56 PM	#8
Hybrid IMPC Contestant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gibsonia PA Posts: 824 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 14	I'd say 20g dextrose + 40g carbs from oats and any protein source at 40g 1 hour pre. The dextrose will spike insulin levels and quickly store into muscle glycogen, while the oats will be slower. After an hour you should have more than enough glycogen. Post, just do whatever you feel. I'm a believer in simple carbs followed in 1 hour by complex. (40g simple, 60-70g complex 1 hour later). Dextrose would be good post here though as your glycogen levels won't be too full at this time. You could also look into taking some dextrose during workout too. I might start doing this as I've talked to a sports nutritionist and read up more on nutrient timing (gatorade works suprisingly well as it's dextrose + salt and damn tasty!). __________________ If you even dream about beating me you'd better wake up and apologize - Muhammad Ali

05-27-2006, 04:36 AM	#9
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,110 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 116	Thanks for the replies everyone. There is clearly a concensus that the use of complex AND simple carbs is important. As most things in bodybuilding, I will experiment with the amounts and combinations of both, along with timing. I'll let everyone know what works for me. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

05-30-2006, 06:30 PM	#10
sfiximo Pro Stature Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: a Posts: 303 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 7	i agree with hybrid.. i see no reason to have dextrose pre workout.. it would just make you feel slow during your workout. for breakfast you can have the traditional eggs and oatmeal.. you can make pancakes out of it: 400g eggs (i use 2 whole and the rest from egg whites) 50-100g oats (this depends for me if its high carb or low carb day) 1tsp baking powder 1tsp vanilla powder sweetener like splenda you can mix a crapload of it and just throw on the pan every morning it takes 10min to prepare.. post workout since you work after it i wouldnt have pure dex there either. id mix dextrose and maltodextrin or vitargo and maltodex (i think pure dex will make it really hard for ya later in work..) then add some whey powder whatever feels best for your stomach. during work instead of bringing oats or whey you can make it easier for you and prepare all the meals the day you arent working.. whole wheat pasta+chicken breasts cut into smaller pieces = put them in a tupperware when theyre cooked and into the freezer, then you can warm them up at work, enjoy much better brown rice+tuna brown rice+ground beef+black beans whole wheat sandwitch with salmon, tuna, chicken, lean ground beef.. or just the eggs+oats pancakes i mentioned I know alot about this cause i was working 5 days a week last summer from 10 to 10 and will be doing it this week too... unfortunately if i have 2 meals at work ill be very stressed, i dont really have that much time.. so my plan is breakfast-pwo shake-meal at work-crapload of steak after work-mid night MRP shake (prolly a protein blend with peanut butter).. 5 meals totaling 300-375g protein and carbs will vary(300-100g), so will fats (50-150g) __________________ check out my journal (its somewhere in the workout log section)

05-30-2006, 11:19 PM	#12
sfiximo Pro Stature Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: a Posts: 303 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 7	i have more to discuss i gotta go to sleep now, hell if my mind breaks loose as it is doing now we could discuss nutrition worth 2 pages in a day __________________ check out my journal (its somewhere in the workout log section)

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