Macronutrient Manipulation for Fat Loss

**DJSTARER** · 01-19-2007, 09:16 PM

I was hoping to get everyone's opinions on this subject.

Personally, the more I think about it, the more possible and highly effective it would seem to simple use macro manipulation to induce fat loss instead of dropping kcals below maintenance. I believe I could sit at maintenance kcals and loose BF for quite a long time. Obvisously there would be a platue to this technique, but say.... from 20% to 14%.... I believe it would be possible.

When I say macro manipulation, I simply mean the ratios and timing of their consumption. The ideas in the "Cut Diet" and "Atkins" diet show evidence that the thermogenic effect of protein and low insulinic respons of fat can be coupled carbohydrates in such a way where which cutting kcals is not a necessty for the first stage of a cut.

beavesmx44 · 01-20-2007, 04:42 AM

I think this would work best for those who are already pretty overweight. The same way that fatties seem to be able to gain muscle and loose a considerable amount of bodyfat at the same time. Those who are in decent shape(>15% bf) might not benefit much.

**A.FreeRadical** · 01-20-2007, 11:08 PM

It is possible to lose fat and gain muscle in the same time period. Dr. Fred Hatfield (Dr. Squat) has labeled this diet the ZigZag diet. The idea is to have a caloric deficit on some days and a surplus on other days. You can do this to cut, bulk or maintain by adjust the number of days of each. Obviously, you won't gain lots of muscle or lose lots of fat this way. Those needing to lose a lot of fat or those who are hard gainers would do better using the more traditional cut and bulk method.

I have been doing this diet off and on for over a year with good results. When I use this diet, my weight doesn't vary more than 10 lbs from a bulk to a cut. This diet also has the advantage of keeping your leptin levels up so as to not plateau. When I am cutting I have 2 refeed days per week. When bulking I have 4 refeed days per week. I arrange these refeed days to have the most calories before my heavy lifting days. On a Zigzag cut that is before Legs and Upper body workouts (small muscles again on the other workouts). On a Zigzag bulk I eat big for Leg, Back and Chest days. During the cut, I focus on strength and during the bulk on hypertrophy. (Although, I periodize within each of these.)

I have played with carbs to no avail for fat loss. I don't feel good if I eat lots of carbs. I do best on moderate amounts of carbs (less than 150 grams per day) with plenty of protein and healthy fats.

I think if you do a search on Dr. Squat Zigzag diet, you will come up with his article.

*

ja_ke · 01-20-2007, 11:28 PM

I have had pretty good results with that diet also. Although I really wasn't aware that it was one, and I didn't do it as organized. I also have had pretty good results with eating the majority of my carbs pre and post workout.

**skelooth** · 01-21-2007, 12:06 AM

When I want to manipulate my macro nutrients, I just whisper,"I love you baby". After that they do whatever I ask of them.

As per the original post.... I agree 90%, your maintenance calories are not just a number, but involves your eating habits as well.

**romanaz** · 01-21-2007, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

When I want to manipulate my macro nutrients, I just whisper,"I love you baby". After that they do whatever I ask of them.

As per the original post.... I agree 90%, your maintenance calories are not just a number, but involves your eating habits as well.

eating habits, how long your awake, activity level that day all effect your maintence calories. I know that if I am awake from beofre 9AM to midnight, I'm going to need a LOT more kcals then say 11AM to midnight. Also, I know that I'll be almost doubling my intake on days where I wake up at 7AM.

now that I think about it, I think I do kinda do that zig-zag diet, because I switch up how many carbs I eat a day and how much fat a lot. Not strict, I just do. I know, for instance if I'm only having dextrose pwo and oats in the morning for carbs, that I'll use olive oil and more pb to ofset it and stay at the same kcals (that and more lean meats!).

I find that I get a lot of people who won't see me for weeks and say I look leaner, when I really weigh more on the scale. Maybe b/c I'm an endo and a beginner and that just works for me right now. who knows?

01-19-2007, 09:16 PM	#1
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 3,983 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 113	Macronutrient Manipulation for Fat Loss I was hoping to get everyone's opinions on this subject. Personally, the more I think about it, the more possible and highly effective it would seem to simple use macro manipulation to induce fat loss instead of dropping kcals below maintenance. I believe I could sit at maintenance kcals and loose BF for quite a long time. Obvisously there would be a platue to this technique, but say.... from 20% to 14%.... I believe it would be possible. When I say macro manipulation, I simply mean the ratios and timing of their consumption. The ideas in the "Cut Diet" and "Atkins" diet show evidence that the thermogenic effect of protein and low insulinic respons of fat can be coupled carbohydrates in such a way where which cutting kcals is not a necessty for the first stage of a cut. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

01-20-2007, 11:08 PM	#3
A.FreeRadical the Epicurean Bodybuilder Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,245 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 57	It is possible to lose fat and gain muscle in the same time period. Dr. Fred Hatfield (Dr. Squat) has labeled this diet the ZigZag diet. The idea is to have a caloric deficit on some days and a surplus on other days. You can do this to cut, bulk or maintain by adjust the number of days of each. Obviously, you won't gain lots of muscle or lose lots of fat this way. Those needing to lose a lot of fat or those who are hard gainers would do better using the more traditional cut and bulk method. I have been doing this diet off and on for over a year with good results. When I use this diet, my weight doesn't vary more than 10 lbs from a bulk to a cut. This diet also has the advantage of keeping your leptin levels up so as to not plateau. When I am cutting I have 2 refeed days per week. When bulking I have 4 refeed days per week. I arrange these refeed days to have the most calories before my heavy lifting days. On a Zigzag cut that is before Legs and Upper body workouts (small muscles again on the other workouts). On a Zigzag bulk I eat big for Leg, Back and Chest days. During the cut, I focus on strength and during the bulk on hypertrophy. (Although, I periodize within each of these.) I have played with carbs to no avail for fat loss. I don't feel good if I eat lots of carbs. I do best on moderate amounts of carbs (less than 150 grams per day) with plenty of protein and healthy fats. I think if you do a search on Dr. Squat Zigzag diet, you will come up with his article. * __________________ "Is it going to be the red pill or the blue pill, Neo? The red pill will answer the question 'What is the Matrix?' Choose carefully. Remember, all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more." Ron Paul for President, 2008 A.FreeRadical ...the Epicurean bodybuilder Height: 5'9", Age: 62, My last high on 2/1/2006 was 196 lbs. My last low on 8/08/2006 was 167.5 lbs. Cutting until I am lean Starting weight: 190 lbs. bodyfat: 19.7% November 27th: 183 lbs. bodyfat: 18.3% bodyfat Goal Weight: 176 lbs with no more than 10% bodyfat My recipe collection

01-21-2007, 12:06 AM	#5
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 8,042 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 162	When I want to manipulate my macro nutrients, I just whisper,"I love you baby". After that they do whatever I ask of them. As per the original post.... I agree 90%, your maintenance calories are not just a number, but involves your eating habits as well. __________________

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01-20-2007, 04:42 AM	#2
beavesmx44 New Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 17 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	I think this would work best for those who are already pretty overweight. The same way that fatties seem to be able to gain muscle and loose a considerable amount of bodyfat at the same time. Those who are in decent shape(>15% bf) might not benefit much.

01-20-2007, 11:28 PM	#4
ja_ke Pro Stature Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Allen Park, MI Posts: 207 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 7	I have had pretty good results with that diet also. Although I really wasn't aware that it was one, and I didn't do it as organized. I also have had pretty good results with eating the majority of my carbs pre and post workout.