How much protein can actually be put to use?

**Sholiz** · 04-25-2005, 11:19 PM

I'm having a convorsation with a friend of mine, and he says that a body can't utilize more than 350g of protein a day.

I say I disagree, stating that DC'ers and people who are not the textbook average human can stand more than 450g+ of protein a day due to the nature of them (pushing beyond what they body can normally take) and any more is just a waste.

He also brings up the fact that the bodys ability to digest protein comes from the genetics of the efficieny of your liver and pancreas, I say also that routine exercise in a person will also up the efficiency of all the bodys functions ... look at Doctors telling people to exercise with heart problems, "slow" thinking, and some other ailments I've heard of that exercise is called for.

So my question here lies the fact, that your "average" male 180lbs at 6' compared to a 200lb bodybuilder at the same height ... who would have better efficiency at breaking down proteins per 2 hours? per day?

K_muscle · 04-26-2005, 12:31 AM

I would assume that athletes would need to consume more protein for optimal performance and results as our lifestyle requires it. I would think protein digestion/utilization is a completely individual thing.

ZackMurphy · 10-13-2005, 03:41 PM

I'm dredging up this oldie because it's an interesting topic that I think too many people don't quite grasp. The "more protein = better" infatuation is running rampant, and it just ain't quite right.

Certainly your trained individual with an increased LBM will experience enhanced protein uptake and utilization, and the higher basal metabolic rate will further help the trained individual to metabolize the heightened caloric intake.

But the trained individual's protein uptake is not unlimited. How high is it? Sure, it's personal, how roughly how high? No study has ever shown it to be above about 1.2g/pound of bodyweight. Intake in excess of that didn't show additional LBM gains. One of the old Colgan texts cited a study (forget which) that put it as high as 1.5g/pound, but no study has ever managed to replicate that.

So for now, 1.2 is the productive limit. Go over that, and you're just adding calories that your body would have to convert to sugars instead of using as amino acids.

**Sixpack** · 10-13-2005, 09:18 PM

There is no set number metabolism, when you take it in, what type of protein,bodyweight, etc all play a role in it.

**Peaked_18** · 10-13-2005, 09:34 PM

Yeah, not every can handle a set amount.

Can range from 200-700 or maybe more or less.

**A.FreeRadical** · 10-14-2005, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZackMurphy

So for now, 1.2 is the productive limit. Go over that, and you're just adding calories that your body would have to convert to sugars instead of using as amino acids.

I think this is about right. As low as .6 for "normal" people and as high as 1.2 x bodyweight for athletes seems to be the range supported by studies on this question. There is also a concern that too much protein at one time can cause an insulin response. This over time could cause insulin insensitivity. I guess that is implied by your comment about sugar conversion.

*

**dbflgirl** · 10-14-2005, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZackMurphy

I'm dredging up this oldie because it's an interesting topic that I think too many people don't quite grasp. The "more protein = better" infatuation is running rampant, and it just ain't quite right.

Certainly your trained individual with an increased LBM will experience enhanced protein uptake and utilization, and the higher basal metabolic rate will further help the trained individual to metabolize the heightened caloric intake.

But the trained individual's protein uptake is not unlimited. How high is it? Sure, it's personal, how roughly how high? No study has ever shown it to be above about 1.2g/pound of bodyweight. Intake in excess of that didn't show additional LBM gains. One of the old Colgan texts cited a study (forget which) that put it as high as 1.5g/pound, but no study has ever managed to replicate that.

So for now, 1.2 is the productive limit. Go over that, and you're just adding calories that your body would have to convert to sugars instead of using as amino acids.

Yep

pu12en12g · 10-15-2005, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZackMurphy

So for now, 1.2 is the productive limit. Go over that, and you're just adding calories that your body would have to convert to sugars instead of using as amino acids.

Respectfully disagree.

**A.FreeRadical** · 10-15-2005, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pu12en12g

Respectfully disagree.

That is ok, but do you have a study that shows that more protein than 1.2 x body weight is beneficial?

*

**Peaked_18** · 10-15-2005, 02:21 PM

We got studies on areselves. The people who actually use 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. I can tell you I haven easily boosted growth and recovery with the extra protein then with 1.5.

Studies only go so far, they determine your set numbers, trial and error.

**johnsbod** · 10-15-2005, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaked_18

We got studies on areselves. The people who actually use 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. I can tell you I haven easily boosted growth and recovery with the extra protein then with 1.5.

Studies only go so far, they determine your set numbers, trial and error.

I agree. Studies don't always translate into real world experience and most of the studies that are done are not done on bodybuilders. There is no black and white answer as no two people's bodies will react the exact same way to anything.

Andrew69 · 10-16-2005, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sholiz

So my question here lies the fact, that your "average" male 180lbs at 6' compared to a 200lb bodybuilder at the same height ... who would have better efficiency at breaking down proteins per 2 hours? per day?

Bobybuilders no doubt. I have seen studies that showed, over time with increased protein consumption, the body can digest and assimilate more protein than is normally possible.
Ill try and dig up the study (if I have it)

But as mentioned above, this may not lead to increase LMM gains.
Personally, I find it does for me (as well as helps with recovery)

ZackMurphy · 10-17-2005, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pu12en12g

Respectfully disagree.

As is your right, of course. Same goes for Andrew69, johnsbod, Peaked_18.

But you guys who choose the feel that bodybuilders are somehow different need to remember that the studies out there that cite 1.2 are on trained individuals. This does not mean "guy who has been to the gym before". This means "guy who participates regularly in reistance training", and it also means "guy who regularly does things on his own just like we're going to ask him to do for us in this study".

So we're not exactly talking about your aunt Gladys on a leg extension being measured for her protein usage. It's guys like you and me, at a local college, who were willing to volunteer for a study on a subject we like: weightlifting.

But what's more - studies have shown 2 key things.
1. that usage up to and exceeding 1.0g/# to be useful and productive, AND
2. usage in excess of about 1.2 is without additional benefit in LBM.

Also, remember when you add your own experiences to the mix (the "but it worked for me") that from a scientific perspective, at best, you're one guy with mediocre data, untrustworthy anecdotes, no control group, and crappy measurement/analysis. Nothing personal, but it's why I don't relate my experiences very often. When I do, I know as soon as anyone says "so what", they have a good point.

Compare that to a bunch of PhD-to-be labcoats trained to do quality studies, looking at a bunch of people like you and me in a closely monitored environment. I'll take that any day.

Do I still play around with macronut. balances and ratios? Sure. But you have to respect the data.

Andrew69 · 10-17-2005, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZackMurphy

Also, remember when you add your own experiences to the mix (the "but it worked for me") that from a scientific perspective, at best, you're one guy with mediocre data, untrustworthy anecdotes, no control group, and crappy measurement/analysis. Nothing personal, but it's why I don't relate my experiences very often. When I do, I know as soon as anyone says "so what", they have a good point.

Compare that to a bunch of PhD-to-be labcoats trained to do quality studies, looking at a bunch of people like you and me in a closely monitored environment. I'll take that any day.

Do I still play around with macronut. balances and ratios? Sure. But you have to respect the data.

Very true Zack, very true.
The thing that gets me about all the studies though, it the length of the studies. They all last for (relatively) short periods and I think that this is the reason annecdotal evidence we present can still be valid.
The studies simply do not run for long enough to allow the body to become accustomed to the higher protein intake.

I am almost positive that I read a study that showed the ability of the body to upregulate protein metabolism after higher than normal protein intake after some time, but of course, I cant find it (typical!!). I did find the link below though. You may want to have a look at it and tell us what you think.

http://www.karlloren.com/diet/p51.htm

**DJSTARER** · 10-21-2005, 03:16 PM

This depends greatly on goals. If one is attempting to bulk, less protein is needed. Bulking is a product of AMPLE PROTEIN combined with enough energy (carbs and fats) for proper anabolism. As soon as you reach that anablic state, the remainder of your diet should come from protein.

Cutting: Protein intake can be higher. Protein is (as most know) not easily used by the body for energy. Because of this, it is known as a "Thermogenic." Protein uses 20% of its calories to be used as energy. In addition, protein has been found to be VERY muscles sparing. Thirdly, protein is very satisfying to the eater. It keeps one full.

Don't Forget your Multi

LaggingBiceps · 10-23-2005, 03:10 PM

I dont know much about this subject, but i think IMO that you can go as high as you want slowly though. If you've been eating 1 grams per lb of weight for a few years then suddenly go to 2 grams per lb you'll get fat. but if every few months you go up by .1 or .2, you can gain from 2.5-3 grams per lb. after a few years. this is just my opinion, i dont have any studies or research to back it up.

**DJSTARER** · 10-24-2005, 03:18 PM

As a side note: What's Up sholiz. Just moved here from BB.com. This place "Uber Rocks"

Don't forget your multi

**NYCmitch25** · 10-24-2005, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJSTARER

As a side note: What's Up sholiz. Just moved here from BB.com. This place "Uber Rocks"

Don't forget your multi

welcome bro.. i also remember you. greetings are normally done via the Introductions category.

04-25-2005, 11:19 PM	#1
Sholiz Soldier In Progress Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,427 Recipes: 3 Rep Power: 230	How much protein can actually be put to use? I'm having a convorsation with a friend of mine, and he says that a body can't utilize more than 350g of protein a day. I say I disagree, stating that DC'ers and people who are not the textbook average human can stand more than 450g+ of protein a day due to the nature of them (pushing beyond what they body can normally take) and any more is just a waste. He also brings up the fact that the bodys ability to digest protein comes from the genetics of the efficieny of your liver and pancreas, I say also that routine exercise in a person will also up the efficiency of all the bodys functions ... look at Doctors telling people to exercise with heart problems, "slow" thinking, and some other ailments I've heard of that exercise is called for. So my question here lies the fact, that your "average" male 180lbs at 6' compared to a 200lb bodybuilder at the same height ... who would have better efficiency at breaking down proteins per 2 hours? per day? __________________ You hear me before you see me, I got King Kong in the trunk

04-26-2005, 12:31 AM	#2
K_muscle anger is a gift... Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 108 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	I would assume that athletes would need to consume more protein for optimal performance and results as our lifestyle requires it. I would think protein digestion/utilization is a completely individual thing. __________________ "He who has a why to live for can bear almost any how." Educate yourselves... Business as usual...

10-13-2005, 09:18 PM	#4
Sixpack Optimum Sponsored athlete Join Date: May 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 867 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 15	There is no set number metabolism, when you take it in, what type of protein,bodyweight, etc all play a role in it. __________________ ["Tough Times Don't Last But Tough People Do" My Pops RIP http://www.optimumnutrition.com/ "Fueling your desire for success" www.rippedacadamy.com Mod-massmonsterz.com ISSA certified

10-21-2005, 03:16 PM	#15
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 3,995 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 113	This depends greatly on goals. If one is attempting to bulk, less protein is needed. Bulking is a product of AMPLE PROTEIN combined with enough energy (carbs and fats) for proper anabolism. As soon as you reach that anablic state, the remainder of your diet should come from protein. Cutting: Protein intake can be higher. Protein is (as most know) not easily used by the body for energy. Because of this, it is known as a "Thermogenic." Protein uses 20% of its calories to be used as energy. In addition, protein has been found to be VERY muscles sparing. Thirdly, protein is very satisfying to the eater. It keeps one full. Don't Forget your Multi __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

10-24-2005, 03:18 PM	#17
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 3,995 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 113	As a side note: What's Up sholiz. Just moved here from BB.com. This place "Uber Rocks" Don't forget your multi __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

10-13-2005, 03:41 PM	#3
ZackMurphy IronMass Donator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Folsom, CA Posts: 547 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 9	I'm dredging up this oldie because it's an interesting topic that I think too many people don't quite grasp. The "more protein = better" infatuation is running rampant, and it just ain't quite right. Certainly your trained individual with an increased LBM will experience enhanced protein uptake and utilization, and the higher basal metabolic rate will further help the trained individual to metabolize the heightened caloric intake. But the trained individual's protein uptake is not unlimited. How high is it? Sure, it's personal, how roughly how high? No study has ever shown it to be above about 1.2g/pound of bodyweight. Intake in excess of that didn't show additional LBM gains. One of the old Colgan texts cited a study (forget which) that put it as high as 1.5g/pound, but no study has ever managed to replicate that. So for now, 1.2 is the productive limit. Go over that, and you're just adding calories that your body would have to convert to sugars instead of using as amino acids.

10-13-2005, 09:34 PM	#5
Peaked_18 a la commode Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,247 Recipes: 2 Rep Power: 96	Yeah, not every can handle a set amount. Can range from 200-700 or maybe more or less.

10-15-2005, 02:21 PM	#10
Peaked_18 a la commode Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,247 Recipes: 2 Rep Power: 96	We got studies on areselves. The people who actually use 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. I can tell you I haven easily boosted growth and recovery with the extra protein then with 1.5. Studies only go so far, they determine your set numbers, trial and error.

10-23-2005, 03:10 PM	#16
LaggingBiceps Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 246 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	I dont know much about this subject, but i think IMO that you can go as high as you want slowly though. If you've been eating 1 grams per lb of weight for a few years then suddenly go to 2 grams per lb you'll get fat. but if every few months you go up by .1 or .2, you can gain from 2.5-3 grams per lb. after a few years. this is just my opinion, i dont have any studies or research to back it up.