High GI carbs PWO?

Diab0lic · 08-13-2005, 03:37 AM

Do you take high GI carbs (eg: dextrose) post workout? Why? Why Not?

If you do do it, would you recommend it whilst cutting (in calorie deficit) or only whilst bulking?

Discuss. :snack:

**Peaked_18** · 08-13-2005, 03:46 AM

If your cutting, don't make your diet shit to workoff fat. Just use cardio 6 times a week in the morning described in your other thread. Dextrose is fine PWO, good carbs for muscle recovery.

Aftershock · 08-13-2005, 04:29 PM

Yes. To replenish glycogen stores, and spike insulin. I'd recommend it year round.

AS

Apootheosis · 08-13-2005, 07:00 PM

yes, at first it was cause u know, Hi GI= nutrient transfer, but then it was just because the powder is so convenient and cheap.

I 100% believe GI is insignificant post workout, due to the spike in insulin sensitivity, and the raise that will be contributed by protein.

HAYWOOD JABLOME · 08-16-2005, 09:10 PM

I dont, mainly because my insulin response is exaggerated and dextrose is micro-nutrient lacking. If you can use it while making lean gains, then keep using it. Everyone will react differently to it.

HAYWOOD JABLOME · 08-17-2005, 03:39 PM

Diabolic, here's an intersting article:

Carbohydrate nutrition before, during, and after exercise.

Costill DL.

The role of dietary carbohydrates (CHO) in the resynthesis of muscle and liver glycogen after prolonged, exhaustive exercise has been clearly demonstrated. The mechanisms responsible for optimal glycogen storage are linked to the activation of glycogen synthetase by depletion of glycogen and the subsequent intake of CHO. Although diets rich in CHO may increase the muscle glycogen stores and enhance endurance exercise performance when consumed in the days before the activity, they also increase the rate of CHO oxidation and the use of muscle glycogen. When consumed in the last hour before exercise, the insulin stimulated-uptake of glucose from blood often results in hypoglycemia, greater dependence on muscle glycogen, and an earlier onset of exhaustion than when no CHO is fed. Ingesting CHO during exercise appears to be of minimal value to performance except in events lasting 2 h or longer. The form of CHO (i.e., glucose, fructose, sucrose) ingested may produce different blood glucose and insulin responses, but the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis is about the same regardless of the structure.

Minotaur · 08-17-2005, 04:05 PM

I used to do it, but I don't anymore since I found out that I am insulin resistant. There is no point in causing an insulin spike if my cells will not respond, or will respond poorly. The danger in provoking insulin spikes in an insulin-resistant person is that down the line, the pancreas can become exhausted and diabetes sets in. So, until I am resensitized to my own insulin, I'll forego the high gi carbs pwo. In fact, I am avoiding almost all carbs and doing a ckd in order to try to resensitize myself to insulin.

GameDayDog · 08-17-2005, 07:03 PM

I used to use dextrose pre & post workout...

With recommendations from 2 people I trust & respect, I've switched to oatmeal with my pre workout shake and nothing with my post workout shake..

It's been explained to me that the simple carbs in a pre workout shake cause an insulin spike shaped lyke a mountain-top peak... where the spike from a complex carb, such as oatmeal, looks more lyke a mesa... Both use insulin to fight, reduce or lower cortisol levels during a workout...

With a post workout shake, it was explained to me that after my workout, my body is producing growth hormones but an insulin spike reduces the amount of growth hormones being produced or released in my system... I'm styll searching the net and researching to learn more about thys & will post more when I fynd it...

I will add that using dextrose pre & post workout made my shakes taste a helluva lot better..

Peace..~G

**ravadongon** · 08-17-2005, 08:20 PM

Yes, to help replenish depleted glycogen levels. I have powerade powder mixed with my protein shake pwo

GameDayDog · 08-17-2005, 11:23 PM

As much as I hate Muscle-Tech products, I have to admyt I got thys from one of their ad's..

#6 - The Intake of Dietary Fiber is a Must

Bodybuilders often forget about fiber intake. Its benefits are mainly talked about in mainstream health and fitness magazines, but fiber is important for bodybuilders too. Fiber can help prevent many health ailments. It can also help improve glucose tolerance. Glucose tolerance could be defined as your body's ability to handle sugars. But why is gluclose tolerance important to bodybuilders? Well, by having a meal with fiber, you'll help ensure that you blood glucose levels stay more balanced. Furthermore, the glycemic response of the carbs you've eaten should then be lowered, and thus insulin release is also lowered. Excess insulin production can prevent the body from shedding excess fat - not a good thing if you're looking to get diced.

#5 - Avoid Most Simple Carbs

Just as fiber has positive effects on blood glucose levels, most simple carbs can have negative effects on these levels. In fact, most simple carbs cause a rise in blood sugar levels, and thus insulin release also increases. As already stated, excess insulin is not a good thing, as it can prevent your body from shedding fat. However, it's important to point out that one key time when simple (or high glycemic) carbs are needed is after a workout. At that time, your muscles' energy stores are completely depleted and by taking in a large amount of high glycemic carbs, you'll ensure replenishment of these stores and help prevent protein (and thus, muscle) breakdown.

**********

Of course, I did mention that thys came from a Muscle-Tech ad.. but the statements seem sound...

Peace..~G
Styll Researching Thys...

Ghosting · 08-18-2005, 12:17 AM

Excellent thread on post-wo nutrition. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hlight=glucose

HAYWOOD JABLOME · 08-18-2005, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghosting

Excellent thread on post-wo nutrition. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hlight=glucose

yup, it took me a while to accept what Bobo was saying, but since I switched to med GI, my gains have never been leaner.
ANd I dont buy into Muscletech's brainwashing.

GameDayDog · 08-18-2005, 05:24 AM

Can someone just provide me with the cliff notes??

Aiight.. Aiight.. I'll read it later, I gotta go workout..

Peace..~G

**builtbeast** · 08-18-2005, 06:04 AM

I used to have a high GI carb with my PW shake several years ago, but now use plain oatmeal for my carbs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GameDayDog

Can someone just provide me with the cliff notes??

Ghostings link advocates the same, with some pubmed studies included.

Diab0lic · 08-18-2005, 11:19 AM

Cheers guys, keep the opinions coming. I do actually know the details of different pwo regimens, Im just trying to gather some stats here. I should have made this a poll really. At the moment, Im using high GI. I have a dex drink with a dissolvable multi and elctrolytes in it. Im starting a cut now tho, so I think I might switch back to oats/fruit, etc again. The high GI option does seem to help with recovery more for me tho, but I dont think its optimal when cutting personally.

Ghosting · 08-18-2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GameDayDog

Can someone just provide me with the cliff notes??

LOL. No kidding, I hate reading long shit. Basically shows that amino acinds and complex carbs are just as good at glycogen resynthesis, without the insulin spike of simple carbs and fat gain. Also, frequent insulin spiking with a post wo shake leads to insulin resistance, thus making fat loss harder.

Ghosting · 08-18-2005, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diab0lic

The high GI option does seem to help with recovery more for me tho, but I dont think its optimal when cutting personally.

If you read the studies, you will see HI G.I. makes no difference over complex carbs.

HAYWOOD JABLOME · 08-18-2005, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghosting

If you read the studies, you will see HI G.I. makes no difference over complex carbs.

Exactly. Glycogen synthesis begins independent of carbs or insulin and protein synthesis is tirggered moreso by amino acids than insulin.

08-13-2005, 03:37 AM	#1
Diab0lic Pro Stature Join Date: May 2005 Location: NZ Posts: 125 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 7	High GI carbs PWO? Do you take high GI carbs (eg: dextrose) post workout? Why? Why Not? If you do do it, would you recommend it whilst cutting (in calorie deficit) or only whilst bulking? Discuss. :snack: __________________

08-13-2005, 04:29 PM	#3
Aftershock Steel Pimp Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 286 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	Yes. To replenish glycogen stores, and spike insulin. I'd recommend it year round. AS __________________ sholiz: im drunk and i want some fruit loops Aftershock: no i know you need to maintain a certain level of professionalism on ironmass Aftershock: how easily i can destroy that... sholiz: just in appearance `````````\\|\|\|/ `````````(o o) ,--ooO-----(_)-------------, \|````````` Aftershock ````\| \|```````````is```````````\| \|``````````sexy````````` \| '--------------Ooo----------' ````````\|__\|__\| `````````\|\|\| \|\| ````````ooO Ooo

08-17-2005, 04:05 PM	#7
Minotaur Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Monmouth County, New Jersey Posts: 103 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	I used to do it, but I don't anymore since I found out that I am insulin resistant. There is no point in causing an insulin spike if my cells will not respond, or will respond poorly. The danger in provoking insulin spikes in an insulin-resistant person is that down the line, the pancreas can become exhausted and diabetes sets in. So, until I am resensitized to my own insulin, I'll forego the high gi carbs pwo. In fact, I am avoiding almost all carbs and doing a ckd in order to try to resensitize myself to insulin. __________________ "You monsters are such interesting creatures! I was just saying to my girlfriend, just the other day, 'Monsters are such interesting people! Why I'll bet they lead such interesting lives!' The things you must see and the things you must do! My stars!"

08-17-2005, 07:03 PM	#8
GameDayDog The Dawg Is Back!! Join Date: May 2005 Location: Doin Compound Movements 4 Scooby Snacks! Posts: 1,975 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 32	Dextrose... I used to use dextrose pre & post workout... With recommendations from 2 people I trust & respect, I've switched to oatmeal with my pre workout shake and nothing with my post workout shake.. It's been explained to me that the simple carbs in a pre workout shake cause an insulin spike shaped lyke a mountain-top peak... where the spike from a complex carb, such as oatmeal, looks more lyke a mesa... Both use insulin to fight, reduce or lower cortisol levels during a workout... With a post workout shake, it was explained to me that after my workout, my body is producing growth hormones but an insulin spike reduces the amount of growth hormones being produced or released in my system... I'm styll searching the net and researching to learn more about thys & will post more when I fynd it... I will add that using dextrose pre & post workout made my shakes taste a helluva lot better.. Peace..~G __________________ I am Thee Alpha.. RaSP is Thee oMEGA.. Between the 2 of us - We have everythyng covered... I want to be bigger than all the humans!! "I'm sure I should be doing cardio too....but I don't run from anything...so why practice?" - 1stInDoor Goal - 200#'s 5/27/07 - 4/27/07 - 175# 3/27/07 - 167#

08-17-2005, 08:20 PM	#9
ravadongon Audere est Facere Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 372 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 7	Yes, to help replenish depleted glycogen levels. I have powerade powder mixed with my protein shake pwo __________________ My Weight Training Log - http://ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?p=112673 For Full Journal visit - http://forum.athletes.com/showthread.php?t=2466 or http://charliefrancis.com/community/...ad.php?t=11822.

08-13-2005, 03:46 AM	#2
Peaked_18 a la commode Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,297 Recipes: 2 Rep Power: 96	If your cutting, don't make your diet shit to workoff fat. Just use cardio 6 times a week in the morning described in your other thread. Dextrose is fine PWO, good carbs for muscle recovery.

08-13-2005, 07:00 PM	#4
Apootheosis Pro Stature Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 626 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 10	yes, at first it was cause u know, Hi GI= nutrient transfer, but then it was just because the powder is so convenient and cheap. I 100% believe GI is insignificant post workout, due to the spike in insulin sensitivity, and the raise that will be contributed by protein.

08-16-2005, 09:10 PM	#5
HAYWOOD JABLOME Pro Stature Join Date: May 2005 Location: Calgary Posts: 343 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 90	I dont, mainly because my insulin response is exaggerated and dextrose is micro-nutrient lacking. If you can use it while making lean gains, then keep using it. Everyone will react differently to it. __________________ Homer: [drunk] "Look, the thing about my family is there's five of us. Marge, Bart, Girl Bart, the one who doesn't talk, and the fat guy. How I loathe him."

08-17-2005, 03:39 PM	#6
HAYWOOD JABLOME Pro Stature Join Date: May 2005 Location: Calgary Posts: 343 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 90	Diabolic, here's an intersting article: Carbohydrate nutrition before, during, and after exercise. Costill DL. The role of dietary carbohydrates (CHO) in the resynthesis of muscle and liver glycogen after prolonged, exhaustive exercise has been clearly demonstrated. The mechanisms responsible for optimal glycogen storage are linked to the activation of glycogen synthetase by depletion of glycogen and the subsequent intake of CHO. Although diets rich in CHO may increase the muscle glycogen stores and enhance endurance exercise performance when consumed in the days before the activity, they also increase the rate of CHO oxidation and the use of muscle glycogen. When consumed in the last hour before exercise, the insulin stimulated-uptake of glucose from blood often results in hypoglycemia, greater dependence on muscle glycogen, and an earlier onset of exhaustion than when no CHO is fed. Ingesting CHO during exercise appears to be of minimal value to performance except in events lasting 2 h or longer. The form of CHO (i.e., glucose, fructose, sucrose) ingested may produce different blood glucose and insulin responses, but the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis is about the same regardless of the structure. __________________ Homer: [drunk] "Look, the thing about my family is there's five of us. Marge, Bart, Girl Bart, the one who doesn't talk, and the fat guy. How I loathe him."

08-17-2005, 11:23 PM	#10
GameDayDog The Dawg Is Back!! Join Date: May 2005 Location: Doin Compound Movements 4 Scooby Snacks! Posts: 1,975 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 32	Advertisement... As much as I hate Muscle-Tech products, I have to admyt I got thys from one of their ad's.. #6 - The Intake of Dietary Fiber is a Must Bodybuilders often forget about fiber intake. Its benefits are mainly talked about in mainstream health and fitness magazines, but fiber is important for bodybuilders too. Fiber can help prevent many health ailments. It can also help improve glucose tolerance. Glucose tolerance could be defined as your body's ability to handle sugars. But why is gluclose tolerance important to bodybuilders? Well, by having a meal with fiber, you'll help ensure that you blood glucose levels stay more balanced. Furthermore, the glycemic response of the carbs you've eaten should then be lowered, and thus insulin release is also lowered. Excess insulin production can prevent the body from shedding excess fat - not a good thing if you're looking to get diced. #5 - Avoid Most Simple Carbs Just as fiber has positive effects on blood glucose levels, most simple carbs can have negative effects on these levels. In fact, most simple carbs cause a rise in blood sugar levels, and thus insulin release also increases. As already stated, excess insulin is not a good thing, as it can prevent your body from shedding fat. However, it's important to point out that one key time when simple (or high glycemic) carbs are needed is after a workout. At that time, your muscles' energy stores are completely depleted and by taking in a large amount of high glycemic carbs, you'll ensure replenishment of these stores and help prevent protein (and thus, muscle) breakdown. ********** Of course, I did mention that thys came from a Muscle-Tech ad.. but the statements seem sound... Peace..~G Styll Researching Thys... __________________ I am Thee Alpha.. RaSP is Thee oMEGA.. Between the 2 of us - We have everythyng covered... I want to be bigger than all the humans!! "I'm sure I should be doing cardio too....but I don't run from anything...so why practice?" - 1stInDoor Goal - 200#'s 5/27/07 - 4/27/07 - 175# 3/27/07 - 167#

08-18-2005, 12:17 AM	#11
Ghosting IronMass Donator Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,810 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 22	Excellent thread on post-wo nutrition. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hlight=glucose __________________ Robcardu is the Jesus of the 90s.

08-18-2005, 05:24 AM	#13
GameDayDog The Dawg Is Back!! Join Date: May 2005 Location: Doin Compound Movements 4 Scooby Snacks! Posts: 1,975 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 32	Eleven Pages?? Can someone just provide me with the cliff notes?? Aiight.. Aiight.. I'll read it later, I gotta go workout.. Peace..~G __________________ I am Thee Alpha.. RaSP is Thee oMEGA.. Between the 2 of us - We have everythyng covered... I want to be bigger than all the humans!! "I'm sure I should be doing cardio too....but I don't run from anything...so why practice?" - 1stInDoor Goal - 200#'s 5/27/07 - 4/27/07 - 175# 3/27/07 - 167# Last edited by GameDayDog : 08-18-2005 at 05:52 AM.

08-18-2005, 11:19 AM	#15
Diab0lic Pro Stature Join Date: May 2005 Location: NZ Posts: 125 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 7	Cheers guys, keep the opinions coming. I do actually know the details of different pwo regimens, Im just trying to gather some stats here. I should have made this a poll really. At the moment, Im using high GI. I have a dex drink with a dissolvable multi and elctrolytes in it. Im starting a cut now tho, so I think I might switch back to oats/fruit, etc again. The high GI option does seem to help with recovery more for me tho, but I dont think its optimal when cutting personally. __________________