Do you have an unconventional nutrition or training secret?

**EME** · 09-08-2005, 02:45 AM

Hey Everyone,

We all read about what we are supposed to do to get ripped, get big, lose fat, build muscle, etc...

Many of the "right" techniques are debated to death in forums all over the internet.

We know that about 90% of what is agreed on is good info and will work for most people, but there are always those tips and tricks that work for people, that seem to defy logic.

Despite all the advice of the experts, do you have something that goes against the norms that really works for YOU?

I'll start.

I have a somewhat unconventional bulking plan according to some.

Although I spend a lot of time calculating precisely the calories and macros I want and need to take in daily, admittedly, I get a lot of my calories and protein from supplements. I also don't eat a lot of vegetables.

My bulking diet consists mainly of:

Oats
Skim Milk ( 72 oz per day )
Rice 5-8 cups per day
Whey Protein ( 6-8 scoops per day )
Chicken ( 2-4 boneless skinless breasts per day )

I eat the same identical thing 6 days per week for months at a time, and only vary slightly on the 7th day.

I do take a good multi vit / min / anti-ox to make sure I get the necessities.. but I don't have a lot of variety.

However, this works for me.
I gained 18 lbs of lean body mass in the last 13 months following my plan.

Another somewhat unorthodox practice is that I don't take in any dextrose, or hi GI sugars at all post workout. I prefer to leave hi GI foods completely out of my diet, except for an occasional cheat meal.

Now, the purpose of this thread is not to debate these things, but to share the unconventional things that you do that WORK for YOU.

The one most important thing I have learned in 20+ years of weight training...

My Golden Rule....

If it works for you.. then do it... despite what any books, or anyone else tells you.

Let's hear some of your unconventional practices that WORK FOR YOU! :bb:

- EME

**NNTB** · 09-08-2005, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EME

My Golden Rule....

If it works for you.. then do it... despite what any books, or anyone else tells you.

Amen to that... there are way too many people out there looking at "one size fits all answers" so to speak but i'm a big believer in figuring out what works best for your own body.:clap:

vanwilder · 09-08-2005, 03:32 AM

my tip although its no good if you want to really plan out waht you want to do is just listen to your body. if your bulking eat till your full and them some more. and give yourself a break for a couple hours and pound away again. im a very easy gainer and can take weight off very easy as well.

for cutting it will take some trial and error, but find out what you can eat, and jsut eat below it. week after week decrease little by little and it will eventually come off.

heavy carbs at morning, none after 7 when cutting. when bulking carbs before bed. my only rules that i follow strictly.

fupbro · 09-08-2005, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EME

Another somewhat unorthodox practice is that I don't take in any dextrose, or hi GI sugars at all post workout. I prefer to leave hi GI foods completely out of my diet, except for an occasional cheat meal.

I do this as well and it helps me stay leaner and harder while getting pretty much the same lean mass gains.

My other little secret (which doesn't have anything to do with nutrition) is that I sometimes go as high as 14-16 reps. Don't do it to much, but sometimes it just feels right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EME

If it works for you.. then do it... despite what any books, or anyone else tells you.

Not to sound like Noneedtobrag, but AMEN!

fupbro · 09-08-2005, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanwilder

heavy carbs at morning, none after 7 when cutting. when bulking carbs before bed. my only rules that i follow strictly.

I cut out the night time carbs as well. Some forums, you'll get roasted for even mentioning the idea.

chlaxman · 09-08-2005, 04:27 AM

I also do not eat high GI carbs or take dextrose PWO anymore. Some places seem to hate that idea, but it works better for me than dex ever did.

I also tend to have a larger preWO meal than PWO meal which is just personal preference because I have problems eating PWO. By problems I mean I tend to get sick when I eat PWO and it can be tough just to get a shake down. I have not noticed any difference there.

**b-boy** · 09-08-2005, 06:49 AM

when bulking and using slin i don't do slin everyday postworkout like a lot of people do! i use slin only on mondays and thursdays but up to 3 shots a day and most of my carb meals are maltodextrin on those days. body wont get so desensitized to insulin that way... ala chad nicholls!

**EME** · 09-08-2005, 02:20 PM

b-boy.. you've probably lost all the non-competitors ( or hardcore enthusiasts ) out there.. but I hear ya.

Good info everyone.

Let's hear some more unconventional wisdom!

- EME

Quote:

Originally Posted by b-boy

when bulking and using slin i don't do slin everyday postworkout like a lot of people do! i use slin only on mondays and thursdays but up to 3 shots a day and most of my carb meals are maltodextrin on those days. body wont get so desensitized to insulin that way... ala chad nicholls!

**powerman2000** · 09-08-2005, 03:37 PM

Unless some of you guys are carb sensitive, consuming high GI carbs for pwo nutrition does NOT add to bodyfat. There could be many other factors that may have caused additional bf to be added to your frames. You have to be careful what you eat after a high GI pwo meal for several hours. After a proper training bout your muscle fibers should be completely primed for such a delivery system that a high GI meal will provide. Insulin sensitivity is at such a level that every single gram of sugar along with all the other nutrients will all be driven straight into your muscle cells. Its science boys. Optimum glycogen replenishment is only obtainable with a fast acting/high GI carb source such as dextrose and maltodextrin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...899&query_hl=2

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ager&DB=pubmed

Happy reading. :sleephapp

chlaxman · 09-08-2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

Unless some of you guys are carb sensitive, consuming high GI carbs for pwo nutrition does NOT add to bodyfat. There could be many other factors that may have caused additional bf to be added to your frames. You have to be careful what you eat after a high GI pwo meal for several hours. After a proper training bout your muscle fibers should be completely primed for such a delivery system that a high GI meal will provide. Insulin sensitivity is at such a level that every single gram of sugar along with all the other nutrients will all be driven straight into your muscle cells. Its science boys. Optimum glycogen replenishment is only obtainable with a fast acting/high GI carb source such as dextrose and maltodextrin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...899&query_hl=2

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ager&DB=pubmed

Happy reading. :sleephapp

Studies I have read have shown that PWO there is a period of insulin-independant glycogen replenishment as long as preWO nutrition is in line. Other studies have shown that BCAA supplementation preWO and PWO can be more anabolic than carb supplementation, too.

As I've said, I have used both ways and I feel better and have better results with low GI carbs PWO. I'm not saying that high GI carbs are wrong, either, I'm just pointing out what works for me.

**EME** · 09-08-2005, 04:15 PM

Muahahahaha..

I knew we would get one of these.

- EME

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

Unless some of you guys are carb sensitive, consuming high GI carbs for pwo nutrition does NOT add to bodyfat. There could be many other factors that may have caused additional bf to be added to your frames. You have to be careful what you eat after a high GI pwo meal for several hours. After a proper training bout your muscle fibers should be completely primed for such a delivery system that a high GI meal will provide. Insulin sensitivity is at such a level that every single gram of sugar along with all the other nutrients will all be driven straight into your muscle cells. Its science boys. Optimum glycogen replenishment is only obtainable with a fast acting/high GI carb source such as dextrose and maltodextrin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...899&query_hl=2

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ager&DB=pubmed

Happy reading. :sleephapp

**EME** · 09-08-2005, 05:05 PM

Hey Powerman,

I'm definitely not disagreeing with anything you posted there.

Very traditional wisdom, and sound advice. Just pointing out that there are also other, albeit unconventional methods that work very well for some people.

I actually followed a technique promoted by master strength coach Charles Poliquin that he uses for his athletes who are cutting. He has them supplement post workout with BCAA's, and high doses of Glutamine in particular.. with no carbs... I had very good results following with this method while cutting.

Furthermore, I want to state that this thread is not about discounting traditional methods of nutrition or training.

If you are just starting out, or are having problems with your current plan, I advise you to read up and learn about the tried and true methods of doing things and incorporate them into your program. This is where I personally advise everyone to start. With the things that almost all of us agree Do work for the majority of people.

However, the purpose of this thread is to show what other methods, even if they break from the norm, ARE working well.. or have worked well in the past for our members.

Sometimes it's great to get a fresh perspective, or new idea... even if it breaks with the traditional norms.

- EME

**powerman2000** · 09-08-2005, 09:30 PM

I wouldn't disagree about avoiding carbs such as dextrose when performing a cut, but everyone either already knows or should know that insulin is an extremely powerful and anabolic hormone.

Peeps posting here and trying to say that they have better results when avoiding the use of this powerful hormone are kidding themselves.

Define "results". If you are talking about staying lean then fine, but for building new muscle fibers to say that you get better results with less of an anabolic hormone is counterintuitive and a contradiction of sorts. That is why I made my post because I don't want other peeps to avoid that particular nutrition protocol based on their potential misinterpretations here.

It is possible to do a cut and still use a dextrose/maltodextrin/whey pwo shake. I personally wouldn't be able to have a successful cut while doing that, but thats just me.

EME, I know this is a thread about unconventional techniques, but it started to turn into a high GI carb bashing thread of sorts and I was making sure that peeps were getting correct info.

**EME** · 09-08-2005, 09:56 PM

Hey Powerman,

I don't think anyone was bashing Hi GI carbs as a technique. Pretty much everyone is in agreement that it is one method that does certainly work.

The disagreement ( and there certainly is plenty among professionals and amatuers alike ) seems to center on whether it's the only method that will work.

I think there are other methods too, that I personally use, and so do many others.

I personallly never use Hi GI carbs post workout anymore.. bulking or cutting.. I do use carbs post workout when bulking, just not your typical Hi GI carbs like dextrose.

I have done it both ways and got just as good results doing Milk and Whey post workout. Personally, I would rather avoid Hi GI sugars all together.

Now, I am NOT saying for anyone else to necessarily do what I do.
Just posting what works well for me, that goes against the norm.

This is not a newbie HOW TO thread... just a place to discuss alternative methods that work in real life experience.

- EME

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

I wouldn't disagree about avoiding carbs such as dextrose when performing a cut, but everyone either already knows or should know that insulin is an extremely powerful and anabolic hormone.

Peeps posting here and trying to say that they have better results when avoiding the use of this powerful hormone are kidding themselves.

Define "results". If you are talking about staying lean then fine, but for building new muscle fibers to say that you get better results with less of an anabolic hormone is counterintuitive and a contradiction of sorts. That is why I made my post because I don't want other peeps to avoid that particular nutrition protocol based on their potential misinterpretations here.

It is possible to do a cut and still use a dextrose/maltodextrin/whey pwo shake. I personally wouldn't be able to have a successful cut while doing that, but thats just me.

EME, I know this is a thread about unconventional techniques, but it started to turn into a high GI carb bashing thread of sorts and I was making sure that peeps were getting correct info.

**powerman2000** · 09-08-2005, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EME

I have done it both ways and got just as good results doing Milk and Whey post workout. Personally, I would rather avoid Hi GI sugars all together.

Why do you suppose the best BBers use injectable insulin?

By your statement above you have said that you've made equal gains with less anabolic hormones by avoiding high GI carbs post workout. That is literally like saying you make just as good of gains without using steroids as you do when you do use steroids. It doesn't make sense.

* Disclaimer * I am not now, nor have I ever said that I believe my fellow mod, EME, has ever taken steroids or is currently taking any steroids.

09-08-2005, 02:45 AM	#1
EME Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,264 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	Do you have an unconventional nutrition or training secret? Hey Everyone, We all read about what we are supposed to do to get ripped, get big, lose fat, build muscle, etc... Many of the "right" techniques are debated to death in forums all over the internet. We know that about 90% of what is agreed on is good info and will work for most people, but there are always those tips and tricks that work for people, that seem to defy logic. Despite all the advice of the experts, do you have something that goes against the norms that really works for YOU? I'll start. I have a somewhat unconventional bulking plan according to some. Although I spend a lot of time calculating precisely the calories and macros I want and need to take in daily, admittedly, I get a lot of my calories and protein from supplements. I also don't eat a lot of vegetables. My bulking diet consists mainly of: Oats Skim Milk ( 72 oz per day ) Rice 5-8 cups per day Whey Protein ( 6-8 scoops per day ) Chicken ( 2-4 boneless skinless breasts per day ) I eat the same identical thing 6 days per week for months at a time, and only vary slightly on the 7th day. I do take a good multi vit / min / anti-ox to make sure I get the necessities.. but I don't have a lot of variety. However, this works for me. I gained 18 lbs of lean body mass in the last 13 months following my plan. Another somewhat unorthodox practice is that I don't take in any dextrose, or hi GI sugars at all post workout. I prefer to leave hi GI foods completely out of my diet, except for an occasional cheat meal. Now, the purpose of this thread is not to debate these things, but to share the unconventional things that you do that WORK for YOU. The one most important thing I have learned in 20+ years of weight training... My Golden Rule.... If it works for you.. then do it... despite what any books, or anyone else tells you. Let's hear some of your unconventional practices that WORK FOR YOU! :bb: - EME __________________ PhysiqueFXonline - Online Nutrition and Training with Michael and Kendra Elias: www.PhysiqueFXonline.com www.MichaelandKendra.com My wife, and IFBB Fitness Pro Kendra Elias' personal site: www.KendraElias.com Proud member of Team ALR: www.ALRIndustries.com

09-08-2005, 03:32 AM	#3
vanwilder IMPC Contestant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: calgary Posts: 722 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 14	my tip although its no good if you want to really plan out waht you want to do is just listen to your body. if your bulking eat till your full and them some more. and give yourself a break for a couple hours and pound away again. im a very easy gainer and can take weight off very easy as well. for cutting it will take some trial and error, but find out what you can eat, and jsut eat below it. week after week decrease little by little and it will eventually come off. heavy carbs at morning, none after 7 when cutting. when bulking carbs before bed. my only rules that i follow strictly. __________________ me > yourmom

09-08-2005, 04:27 AM	#6
chlaxman Pro Stature Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Maine baby Posts: 560 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 9	I also do not eat high GI carbs or take dextrose PWO anymore. Some places seem to hate that idea, but it works better for me than dex ever did. I also tend to have a larger preWO meal than PWO meal which is just personal preference because I have problems eating PWO. By problems I mean I tend to get sick when I eat PWO and it can be tough just to get a shake down. I have not noticed any difference there. __________________ Tempora mutantur, et nos mutamur in illis. :weight_li :dumbells: :bed2: :friday:

09-08-2005, 03:37 PM	#9
powerman2000 The Old Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,136 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 200	Unless some of you guys are carb sensitive, consuming high GI carbs for pwo nutrition does NOT add to bodyfat. There could be many other factors that may have caused additional bf to be added to your frames. You have to be careful what you eat after a high GI pwo meal for several hours. After a proper training bout your muscle fibers should be completely primed for such a delivery system that a high GI meal will provide. Insulin sensitivity is at such a level that every single gram of sugar along with all the other nutrients will all be driven straight into your muscle cells. Its science boys. Optimum glycogen replenishment is only obtainable with a fast acting/high GI carb source such as dextrose and maltodextrin. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...899&query_hl=2 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ager&DB=pubmed Happy reading. :sleephapp __________________ Don't forget to periodize Best BP 507 lbs competitive Best Squat 705 lbs competitive Best DL 650 lbs competitive Guns don't kill people, men who come home early do. My workout log http://www.ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6247

09-08-2005, 05:05 PM	#12
EME Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,264 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	Hey Powerman, I'm definitely not disagreeing with anything you posted there. Very traditional wisdom, and sound advice. Just pointing out that there are also other, albeit unconventional methods that work very well for some people. I actually followed a technique promoted by master strength coach Charles Poliquin that he uses for his athletes who are cutting. He has them supplement post workout with BCAA's, and high doses of Glutamine in particular.. with no carbs... I had very good results following with this method while cutting. Furthermore, I want to state that this thread is not about discounting traditional methods of nutrition or training. If you are just starting out, or are having problems with your current plan, I advise you to read up and learn about the tried and true methods of doing things and incorporate them into your program. This is where I personally advise everyone to start. With the things that almost all of us agree Do work for the majority of people. However, the purpose of this thread is to show what other methods, even if they break from the norm, ARE working well.. or have worked well in the past for our members. Sometimes it's great to get a fresh perspective, or new idea... even if it breaks with the traditional norms. - EME __________________ PhysiqueFXonline - Online Nutrition and Training with Michael and Kendra Elias: www.PhysiqueFXonline.com www.MichaelandKendra.com My wife, and IFBB Fitness Pro Kendra Elias' personal site: www.KendraElias.com Proud member of Team ALR: www.ALRIndustries.com

09-08-2005, 06:49 AM	#7
b-boy Gold Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 548 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 42	when bulking and using slin i don't do slin everyday postworkout like a lot of people do! i use slin only on mondays and thursdays but up to 3 shots a day and most of my carb meals are maltodextrin on those days. body wont get so desensitized to insulin that way... ala chad nicholls!

09-08-2005, 09:30 PM	#13
powerman2000 The Old Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,136 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 200	I wouldn't disagree about avoiding carbs such as dextrose when performing a cut, but everyone either already knows or should know that insulin is an extremely powerful and anabolic hormone. Peeps posting here and trying to say that they have better results when avoiding the use of this powerful hormone are kidding themselves. Define "results". If you are talking about staying lean then fine, but for building new muscle fibers to say that you get better results with less of an anabolic hormone is counterintuitive and a contradiction of sorts. That is why I made my post because I don't want other peeps to avoid that particular nutrition protocol based on their potential misinterpretations here. It is possible to do a cut and still use a dextrose/maltodextrin/whey pwo shake. I personally wouldn't be able to have a successful cut while doing that, but thats just me. EME, I know this is a thread about unconventional techniques, but it started to turn into a high GI carb bashing thread of sorts and I was making sure that peeps were getting correct info. __________________ Don't forget to periodize Best BP 507 lbs competitive Best Squat 705 lbs competitive Best DL 650 lbs competitive Guns don't kill people, men who come home early do. My workout log http://www.ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6247

09-08-2005, 10:24 PM	#16
powerman2000 The Old Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,136 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 200