Cut Timing: Advice Needed

**DJSTARER** · 12-04-2005, 06:17 PM

Okay, well I am on my first non-anorexia influenced bulk of my life, and have been so since the beginning of the semester. All during the summer was a maintenance/super clean bulk where I ate just barely over my maintenance and did a ton of cardio. In summary, I have been NOT cutting for about 6 months total. In this time, I've put on about 20 lbs. Very little of this weight recently, for I stopped monitoring the scale... and didn't realize I needed to up my kcals another 300 or so. My question:

I am 171lbs at about 11.5 or 12% BF. Should I cut down to about 9%, then bulk for the remainder of the winter? I imagine a cut to get down to 9% would only take about a month or two, leaving another 2 or 3 month to bulk before I have to get ripped for the summer.

The other option, which I am considering, is bulking for another 2 or 3 month, and then have a longer cut for the summer. As you can see in my sig, I WANT to gain about another 10 lbs of lean mass before the year is over... so that means I'll likely have to pack on about 16 lbs more total so I can cut back to 180.

Any suggestions from experience?

I guess my total question is: Should I just go for my goal and really try to pack in on at the expense of a more excruciating cut? Or should I Zig zag a little more to reach it (Keeping my body guessing and leaner).

Don't forget your mulit

**DJSTARER** · 12-04-2005, 11:04 PM

bump it, I maybe this post should be elsewhere....

**NYCmitch25** · 12-04-2005, 11:14 PM

how old are you?

**DJSTARER** · 12-04-2005, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCmitch25

how old are you?

19 years

**NYCmitch25** · 12-04-2005, 11:29 PM

Personally, I would get the size and mass and not worry about it too much. However I would try to keep bf% managable. Calculate and keep a good diet. If your really woried about it then do moderate cardio. Some guys carb cycle or cut carbs after 4pm even during a bulk. Look at a bigger picture then just next summer. Put on the size your are at a good age to do that. I did the same thing at your age and got up to 210. I then cut. The end result is bigger muscles. I would also focus on compound movements and lifts -DL, Squat, Bench, Row. Use heavy weights. I assume your diet is righteuous and you know about healthy fats and nutrtion? I wouldnt worry about all the extra arm and delt work - dont overtrain.

So I would bulk to reach your goal.

**NYCmitch25** · 12-04-2005, 11:34 PM

Here is my offseason diet. My quest not to put on fat and remain anabolic. If i skip a meal cuz im busy ill doulbe up on the protien.

BMR:3,252
Workout Day
6:30 tuna -Vit. C powder
7:45 4.5oz meat and vegetable
10:45 4.5oz meat and 0.25 cup brown rice
12:30 4.5oz meat and vegetable
1:50 4.5oz meat and brown rice
5:00 4.5oz meat and vegetable
5:45 half PWO Shake
6:00 Workout
6:45 half PWO Shake-Vit. C powder or Gatorade and creatine.
7:00 4.5oz meat 2 tbsp flaxseed oil
9:00 2 cups cottage cheese 2 tbsp flax
Vegetable will be corn, broccoli, and carrots mixed together.
Tuna Mush is a Recipe (below).
PWO Shake is 3 scoops Whey/3 tbsp malto/3 tbsp dextrose or Whey/Gatorade which is mostly malto.
Totals for this day are roughly C/F/P/Cals-----369/64/403/3664

Non-Workout Days
6:30 Shake-Vit. C powder
8:50 4oz Meat and Veggies
11:30 4oz Meat and Veggies
2:00 4oz Meat and Veggies
5 ish 4oz Meat and 0.5 cups Br. Rice
7:00 4oz Meat and flax
9-bedtime 2 cups cottage cheese 2 tbsp flax
Totals for this day are roughly C/F/P/Cals-----332/62/363/3338

Supplements - green tea, creatine, flax/fish oil.

**DJSTARER** · 12-05-2005, 12:33 AM

thanks for the info... but that isn't what i really need. I have all that down with a bag of bad genetics... so I can't just clean bulk all year round. I just need to know (from those who are experienced) what my best bet is time wise for optomizing my gains this season.

**EME** · 12-05-2005, 01:24 AM

Unless you are on a specific time line for a date when you have to be cut, I'd recommend you just keep putting on the mass for now, and then when time time comes for cutting, put your time and devotion into cutting.

Build mass for as long as you can, but keep that bodyfat in check. If you find yourself creeping toward 15%, back the calories off a bit.

Then, when the time comes and you are ready to devote your diet and training to cutting, focus on that full time and get the results you are really looking for.

In my opinon, detouring your training for a few weeks simply to drop your bodyfat a few %, and then returning to bulking, isn't really going to help your long term goal of building a bigger, more muscular body.

Hit it hard and heavy while you are growing, and then when your bulking time is over, focus on getting shredded and carefully plan your diet and training so you keep all that new mass you worked so hard to build.

- EME

**DJSTARER** · 12-05-2005, 01:28 AM

that's the kind of advice I was looking for. Thanks Mike.

Thanks for moving it. I feel the nutrition section is my home anyway.

Don't forget your multi

Steve_W · 12-05-2005, 01:38 PM

It's winter, bulk. Keep it relatively lean. Cutting is pretty simple, adding muscle mass is alot more difficult. Add some mass, then re-assess (imo)

.

**DJSTARER** · 12-05-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_W

It's winter, bulk. Keep it relatively lean. Cutting is pretty simple, adding muscle mass is alot more difficult. Add some mass, then re-assess (imo)

.

Cool. As yoy guys can see, I have about 15 more pounds i want untill I'll be happy. The first 15 cam really easily... newb gains i suppose. Either I need to up my kcals again.... or they pounds are just coming far slower. I will up my kcals another 300.

Don't forget your multi

**NYCmitch25** · 12-05-2005, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJSTARER

that's the kind of advice I was looking for. Thanks Mike.

Thanks for moving it. I feel the nutrition section is my home anyway.

Don't forget your multi

I guess my advise was shit. No need to post anymore. :nosthumbs lol

**NYCmitch25** · 12-06-2005, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJSTARER

thanks for the info... but that isn't what i really need. I have all that down with a bag of bad genetics... so I can't just clean bulk all year round. .

hey assclown, how was i suppose to know that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJSTARER

I just need to know (from those who are experienced) what my best bet is time wise for optomizing my gains this season.

thats extremely rude bro, i have plenty of experience!!

**EME** · 12-06-2005, 02:03 AM

No need for all that guys.
Let's keep it civil. We're here to help each other.

- EME

**bubba g** · 12-06-2005, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EME

No need for all that guys.
Let's keep it civil. We're here to help each other.

- EME

Check your PMs bro...

**EME** · 12-06-2005, 04:36 PM

Got it. Thanks bro.

- EME

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba g

Check your PMs bro...

**DJSTARER** · 12-06-2005, 07:00 PM

NYC, I am sorry about that "experience quote.

12-04-2005, 06:17 PM	#1
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,103 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 115	Cut Timing: Advice Needed Okay, well I am on my first non-anorexia influenced bulk of my life, and have been so since the beginning of the semester. All during the summer was a maintenance/super clean bulk where I ate just barely over my maintenance and did a ton of cardio. In summary, I have been NOT cutting for about 6 months total. In this time, I've put on about 20 lbs. Very little of this weight recently, for I stopped monitoring the scale... and didn't realize I needed to up my kcals another 300 or so. My question: I am 171lbs at about 11.5 or 12% BF. Should I cut down to about 9%, then bulk for the remainder of the winter? I imagine a cut to get down to 9% would only take about a month or two, leaving another 2 or 3 month to bulk before I have to get ripped for the summer. The other option, which I am considering, is bulking for another 2 or 3 month, and then have a longer cut for the summer. As you can see in my sig, I WANT to gain about another 10 lbs of lean mass before the year is over... so that means I'll likely have to pack on about 16 lbs more total so I can cut back to 180. Any suggestions from experience? I guess my total question is: Should I just go for my goal and really try to pack in on at the expense of a more excruciating cut? Or should I Zig zag a little more to reach it (Keeping my body guessing and leaner). Don't forget your mulit __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

12-04-2005, 11:04 PM	#2
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,103 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 115	bump it, I maybe this post should be elsewhere.... __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

12-05-2005, 12:33 AM	#7
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,103 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 115	thanks for the info... but that isn't what i really need. I have all that down with a bag of bad genetics... so I can't just clean bulk all year round. I just need to know (from those who are experienced) what my best bet is time wise for optomizing my gains this season. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

12-05-2005, 01:24 AM	#8
EME Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,265 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	Unless you are on a specific time line for a date when you have to be cut, I'd recommend you just keep putting on the mass for now, and then when time time comes for cutting, put your time and devotion into cutting. Build mass for as long as you can, but keep that bodyfat in check. If you find yourself creeping toward 15%, back the calories off a bit. Then, when the time comes and you are ready to devote your diet and training to cutting, focus on that full time and get the results you are really looking for. In my opinon, detouring your training for a few weeks simply to drop your bodyfat a few %, and then returning to bulking, isn't really going to help your long term goal of building a bigger, more muscular body. Hit it hard and heavy while you are growing, and then when your bulking time is over, focus on getting shredded and carefully plan your diet and training so you keep all that new mass you worked so hard to build. - EME __________________ PhysiqueFXonline - Online Nutrition and Training with Michael and Kendra Elias: www.MichaelandKendra.com Team Molecular Nutrition Creative Director FAME Media Group / World Natural Sports Organization Editor-In-Chief FAME Magazine www.FAMEWorldTour.com

12-05-2005, 01:28 AM	#9
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,103 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 115	that's the kind of advice I was looking for. Thanks Mike. Thanks for moving it. I feel the nutrition section is my home anyway. Don't forget your multi __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

12-04-2005, 11:14 PM	#3
NYCmitch25 Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,102 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	how old are you?

12-04-2005, 11:29 PM	#5
NYCmitch25 Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,102 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	Personally, I would get the size and mass and not worry about it too much. However I would try to keep bf% managable. Calculate and keep a good diet. If your really woried about it then do moderate cardio. Some guys carb cycle or cut carbs after 4pm even during a bulk. Look at a bigger picture then just next summer. Put on the size your are at a good age to do that. I did the same thing at your age and got up to 210. I then cut. The end result is bigger muscles. I would also focus on compound movements and lifts -DL, Squat, Bench, Row. Use heavy weights. I assume your diet is righteuous and you know about healthy fats and nutrtion? I wouldnt worry about all the extra arm and delt work - dont overtrain. So I would bulk to reach your goal.

12-04-2005, 11:34 PM	#6
NYCmitch25 Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,102 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	Here is my offseason diet. My quest not to put on fat and remain anabolic. If i skip a meal cuz im busy ill doulbe up on the protien. BMR:3,252 Workout Day 6:30 tuna -Vit. C powder 7:45 4.5oz meat and vegetable 10:45 4.5oz meat and 0.25 cup brown rice 12:30 4.5oz meat and vegetable 1:50 4.5oz meat and brown rice 5:00 4.5oz meat and vegetable 5:45 half PWO Shake 6:00 Workout 6:45 half PWO Shake-Vit. C powder or Gatorade and creatine. 7:00 4.5oz meat 2 tbsp flaxseed oil 9:00 2 cups cottage cheese 2 tbsp flax Vegetable will be corn, broccoli, and carrots mixed together. Tuna Mush is a Recipe (below). PWO Shake is 3 scoops Whey/3 tbsp malto/3 tbsp dextrose or Whey/Gatorade which is mostly malto. Totals for this day are roughly C/F/P/Cals-----369/64/403/3664 Non-Workout Days 6:30 Shake-Vit. C powder 8:50 4oz Meat and Veggies 11:30 4oz Meat and Veggies 2:00 4oz Meat and Veggies 5 ish 4oz Meat and 0.5 cups Br. Rice 7:00 4oz Meat and flax 9-bedtime 2 cups cottage cheese 2 tbsp flax Totals for this day are roughly C/F/P/Cals-----332/62/363/3338 Supplements - green tea, creatine, flax/fish oil.

12-05-2005, 01:38 PM	#10
Steve_W Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 105 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	It's winter, bulk. Keep it relatively lean. Cutting is pretty simple, adding muscle mass is alot more difficult. Add some mass, then re-assess (imo) .

12-06-2005, 02:03 AM	#14
EME Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,265 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	No need for all that guys. Let's keep it civil. We're here to help each other. - EME __________________ PhysiqueFXonline - Online Nutrition and Training with Michael and Kendra Elias: www.MichaelandKendra.com Team Molecular Nutrition Creative Director FAME Media Group / World Natural Sports Organization Editor-In-Chief FAME Magazine www.FAMEWorldTour.com

12-06-2005, 07:00 PM	#17
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,103 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 115	NYC, I am sorry about that "experience quote.