any way to slow down my metabolism? - Page 2

**DJSTARER** · 01-11-2007, 12:51 AM

skel: there is a middle ground, and depending on one's genetics, it can be found.

i am a good example. I gain weight easily, but fat as well. I would consider myself a high calorie endo-meso. That is, i take a certain high kcal threashold to gain any weight at all (4000K), but when I do, it is at about 1:1. I thought this had to do with my diet, but as it turns out, not as much as I think. This ratio stays the same whether I eat a super clean 4500 or a semi-clean 4500. Granted, I keep 50% of my meals from classic starches and protein, but my other meals, due to my high caloric needs, are things such as hot pockets, pizza, chinese food, meatballs, hoagies, steak sandwhiches... etc. Just understand, to the original poster, that these foods I have just listed are all LOW IN SUGAR, and LACKING TRANS FATS. Those are the two big factors making things "unlcean."

If anyone can tell me why a chicken cheesesteak is a bad choice for a meal in a weight gaining diet for an ecto, I'd be impressed and enlightened

**madman911** · 01-11-2007, 12:52 AM

I don't believe you have to eat clean 100% of the time, but eating donuts, nachos, and other crap several times a day every day is not healthy, and eating that way will prevent you from developing good eating habits. You will benefit greatly by forming good eating habits now because, as you get older, you will get your wish and your metabolism WILL slow down... then you'll find it hard to change the bad eating habits you've developed. As a teen I could eat McDonald's every day and not gain an ounce, now I just look at a Big Mac and gain a pound.

You will gain more muscle and store less fat on a diet of 4000 clean calories than with 4000 dirty, junk food derived calories... that's the reality. And i don't want to hear the "i can't get enough cals without eating junk food" line of bs. I'd rather see someone eating a whole jar of peanut butter a day than resorting to donuts as a dietary staple.

**DJSTARER** · 01-11-2007, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman911

I don't believe you have to eat clean 100% of the time, but eating donuts, nachos, and other crap several times a day every day is not healthy, and eating that way will prevent you from developing good eating habits. You will benefit greatly by forming good eating habits now because, as you get older, you will get your wish and your metabolism WILL slow down... then you'll find it hard to change the bad eating habits you've developed. As a teen I could eat McDonald's every day and not gain an ounce, now I just look at a Big Mac and gain a pound.

You will gain more muscle and store less fat on a diet of 4000 clean calories than with 4000 dirty, junk food derived calories... that's the reality. And i don't want to hear the "i can't get enough cals without eating junk food" line of bs. I'd rather see someone eating a whole jar of peanut butter a day than resorting to donuts as a dietary staple.

also well said.

**skelooth** · 01-11-2007, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJSTARER

skel: there is a middle ground, and depending on one's genetics, it can be found.

i am a good example. I gain weight easily, but fat as well. I would consider myself a high calorie endo-meso. That is, i take a certain high kcal threashold to gain any weight at all (4000K), but when I do, it is at about 1:1. I thought this had to do with my diet, but as it turns out, not as much as I think. This ratio stays the same whether I eat a super clean 4500 or a semi-clean 4500. Granted, I keep 50% of my meals from classic starches and protein, but my other meals, due to my high caloric needs, are things such as hot pockets, pizza, chinese food, meatballs, hoagies, steak sandwhiches... etc. Just understand, to the original poster, that these foods I have just listed are all LOW IN SUGAR, and LACKING TRANS FATS. Those are the two big factors making things "unlcean."

If anyone can tell me why a chicken cheesesteak is a bad choice for a meal in a weight gaining diet for an ecto, I'd be impressed and enlightened

See, but aside from the hot pockets and pizza, I agree with what you said. My problem is the whole "nachos hot dogs donuts" thing. Chicken Cheese steak sounds like it'd fit in my diet too

edit:

Just want to tack on why I'm against pizza. It's mostly bleached white flour and fat. While yes there is some protein (8g or so per slice i think??) it's mostly the most evil nutrient ratio ever. Hot pockets.... well yeah, they taste good but similiar problem. At least a philly cheese steak is going to have a good 18-22g of protein in it.

**DJSTARER** · 01-11-2007, 02:37 AM

see, the think about the white flour and fat....

they make one another more desireable. The fat slows the flour. As for the protein... you are right... but you could get ham and sausage on it too

I use pizza to AUGMENT my meals. 2 slices of pizza and 1 protein shake = 720 kcals and 34 grams of protein. Anyway, i always preach macro timingn as well. Dougnuts are good in the morning, when an ecto's firey metablism has killed his/her glucose store in their liver. I believe sugar is important in the morrning, and starch the rest of the day.

EDIT/Added: Lean Pockets have 14 grams of protein, 44g carbs and 7g of protein. That is 280 kcals. Two of these= 560kcals. 28g protein, 88g carbs, and 14g fat is pretty solid for a hard gainer.

**skelooth** · 01-11-2007, 02:45 AM

yeah I heard about the lean pockets... There is another 'healthier' leanpocket variety out now with even more protein! Too bad those are trigger foods for me. Beef Taco and philly cheese steak hot pockets = the death of me.

**DJSTARER** · 01-11-2007, 02:58 AM

yeah. they are called lean pocket ULTRAs. They are awsome. I eat two of them before bed on training days. Only 12-16 net carbs in each (depending on the variety) and 22-25g of protein. The ingredients are solid too. There are chunks of steel cut oat in the pastry part. I believe they are a great compromise.

while this thread has become seemingly OT, the discussion has actually put some good ideas and contrasting concepts on the table for him to choose.

**NYCmitch25** · 01-11-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman911

I don't believe you have to eat clean 100% of the time, but eating donuts, nachos, and other crap several times a day every day is not healthy, and eating that way will prevent you from developing good eating habits. You will benefit greatly by forming good eating habits now because, as you get older, you will get your wish and your metabolism WILL slow down... then you'll find it hard to change the bad eating habits you've developed. As a teen I could eat McDonald's every day and not gain an ounce, now I just look at a Big Mac and gain a pound.

You will gain more muscle and store less fat on a diet of 4000 clean calories than with 4000 dirty, junk food derived calories... that's the reality. And i don't want to hear the "i can't get enough cals without eating junk food" line of bs. I'd rather see someone eating a whole jar of peanut butter a day than resorting to donuts as a dietary staple.

dam you sound like my mom...i eat mcdonalds once a day when im bulking. i may eat just the burgers ditch the fries and soda or egg sandwich. its hard to get in 4000-5000 calories clean LOL. post that diet up for me i'd like to see it especially for a HS teen. 2 gallons of pb each day.

**NYCmitch25** · 01-11-2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

See, but aside from the hot pockets and pizza, I agree with what you said. My problem is the whole "nachos hot dogs donuts" thing. Chicken Cheese steak sounds like it'd fit in my diet too

edit:

Just want to tack on why I'm against pizza. It's mostly bleached white flour and fat. While yes there is some protein (8g or so per slice i think??) it's mostly the most evil nutrient ratio ever. Hot pockets.... well yeah, they taste good but similiar problem. At least a philly cheese steak is going to have a good 18-22g of protein in it.

Skel you've been cutting since '92 - i think we know your stance on the issue LOL

**skelooth** · 01-11-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCmitch25

dam you sound like my mom...i eat mcdonalds once a day when im bulking. i may eat just the burgers ditch the fries and soda or egg sandwich. its hard to get in 4000-5000 calories clean LOL. post that diet up for me i'd like to see it especially for a HS teen. 2 gallons of pb each day.

One jar of Peanut butter is around 3200 calories and costs roughly $2.20

DJohnson · 01-11-2007, 01:48 PM

Pffft, hot pockets, and everything else like that are far from nutritionally optimal. There exists something in the world that will give you better and leaner gains I guarantee you. Therefore why eat it?

**madman911** · 01-11-2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCmitch25

dam you sound like my mom...i eat mcdonalds once a day when im bulking. i may eat just the burgers ditch the fries and soda or egg sandwich. its hard to get in 4000-5000 calories clean LOL. post that diet up for me i'd like to see it especially for a HS teen. 2 gallons of pb each day.

Put this in a blender: 2 tbsp peanut butter, 1 banana, 2 scoops of whey, 1 cup oats, 2 cups of 2% milk. Drink 2-3 of these shakes per day in addition to 3 well rounded clean meals and tell me if you don't grow. The argument that it is harder to get enough cals from clean foods stems from laziness... you have to actually prepare clean food, which takes a lot more effort than walking up to a counter and placing an order. I spend several hours a week just cooking and weighing food out, but it is time well spent. On my latest and cleanest bulk, I've gained about 15 lbs in 2 months and I've yet to exceed 10% bodyfat... do you mind if I ask what kind of results you've seen with your approach?

**skelooth** · 01-11-2007, 03:20 PM

^ Very true. It's really just an ectomorphic excuse to eat junk food bro. They think because they aren't endos prone to gaining fat they are "above" putting in the leg work. I'll be damned if that's not what it is.

**NYCmitch25** · 01-11-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman911

Put this in a blender: 2 tbsp peanut butter, 1 banana, 2 scoops of whey, 1 cup oats, 2 cups of 2% milk. Drink 2-3 of these shakes per day in addition to 3 well rounded clean meals and tell me if you don't grow. The argument that it is harder to get enough cals from clean foods stems from laziness... you have to actually prepare clean food, which takes a lot more effort than walking up to a counter and placing an order. I spend several hours a week just cooking and weighing food out, but it is time well spent. On my latest and cleanest bulk, I've gained about 15 lbs in 2 months and I've yet to exceed 10% bodyfat... do you mind if I ask what kind of results you've seen with your approach?

Cool... I kinda do that already. I also spend serveral hours preparing food. I see yur point. I recently went from 182 to 192-195 lbs. which was my original goal. I also got stronger bp 300 x 6, deads 500 x 10, squat 450 x 8. My bf% is very low but healthy. ITs not really about your or I its the 133 lb hs student trying to grow. Hes not getting in enuff calories. I do eat clean on non-lifting days.

**DJSTARER** · 01-12-2007, 03:48 AM

^ genetic freak.

I have good success eating clean all the time and eating clean MUCH of the time. The difference is not noticeable.

01-11-2007, 12:51 AM	#31
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 3,979 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 113	skel: there is a middle ground, and depending on one's genetics, it can be found. i am a good example. I gain weight easily, but fat as well. I would consider myself a high calorie endo-meso. That is, i take a certain high kcal threashold to gain any weight at all (4000K), but when I do, it is at about 1:1. I thought this had to do with my diet, but as it turns out, not as much as I think. This ratio stays the same whether I eat a super clean 4500 or a semi-clean 4500. Granted, I keep 50% of my meals from classic starches and protein, but my other meals, due to my high caloric needs, are things such as hot pockets, pizza, chinese food, meatballs, hoagies, steak sandwhiches... etc. Just understand, to the original poster, that these foods I have just listed are all LOW IN SUGAR, and LACKING TRANS FATS. Those are the two big factors making things "unlcean." If anyone can tell me why a chicken cheesesteak is a bad choice for a meal in a weight gaining diet for an ecto, I'd be impressed and enlightened __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

01-11-2007, 12:52 AM	#32
madman911 Metamorphosizing Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Area Posts: 1,524 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 60	I don't believe you have to eat clean 100% of the time, but eating donuts, nachos, and other crap several times a day every day is not healthy, and eating that way will prevent you from developing good eating habits. You will benefit greatly by forming good eating habits now because, as you get older, you will get your wish and your metabolism WILL slow down... then you'll find it hard to change the bad eating habits you've developed. As a teen I could eat McDonald's every day and not gain an ounce, now I just look at a Big Mac and gain a pound. You will gain more muscle and store less fat on a diet of 4000 clean calories than with 4000 dirty, junk food derived calories... that's the reality. And i don't want to hear the "i can't get enough cals without eating junk food" line of bs. I'd rather see someone eating a whole jar of peanut butter a day than resorting to donuts as a dietary staple. __________________ Millennium Sport Technologies Sponsored Athlete http://www.millenniumsport.net IMPC 2006 Novice Division Champ IMPC 2007 Open Division Champ Never underestimate the power of the bandana.

01-11-2007, 02:37 AM	#35
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 3,979 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 113	see, the think about the white flour and fat.... they make one another more desireable. The fat slows the flour. As for the protein... you are right... but you could get ham and sausage on it too I use pizza to AUGMENT my meals. 2 slices of pizza and 1 protein shake = 720 kcals and 34 grams of protein. Anyway, i always preach macro timingn as well. Dougnuts are good in the morning, when an ecto's firey metablism has killed his/her glucose store in their liver. I believe sugar is important in the morrning, and starch the rest of the day. EDIT/Added: Lean Pockets have 14 grams of protein, 44g carbs and 7g of protein. That is 280 kcals. Two of these= 560kcals. 28g protein, 88g carbs, and 14g fat is pretty solid for a hard gainer. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

01-11-2007, 02:45 AM	#36
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 8,041 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 160	yeah I heard about the lean pockets... There is another 'healthier' leanpocket variety out now with even more protein! Too bad those are trigger foods for me. Beef Taco and philly cheese steak hot pockets = the death of me. __________________

01-11-2007, 02:58 AM	#37
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 3,979 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 113	yeah. they are called lean pocket ULTRAs. They are awsome. I eat two of them before bed on training days. Only 12-16 net carbs in each (depending on the variety) and 22-25g of protein. The ingredients are solid too. There are chunks of steel cut oat in the pastry part. I believe they are a great compromise. while this thread has become seemingly OT, the discussion has actually put some good ideas and contrasting concepts on the table for him to choose. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

01-11-2007, 01:48 PM	#41
DJohnson IMPC Contestant Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 964 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 44	Pffft, hot pockets, and everything else like that are far from nutritionally optimal. There exists something in the world that will give you better and leaner gains I guarantee you. Therefore why eat it? __________________ Age: 21 Height: 5'10.5" Mar, 2001: 135lbs @ ~14% Nov, 2004: 245lbs @ ~40% Feb, 2006: 188lbs @ 20.1% - Hydrostatic Tested Dec, 2006: 168lbs @ 5.5% - 7 Point Caliper Tested BULKING FOR A LONG TIME NOW Long Term Goal: Over 200lbs @ 8%

01-11-2007, 03:20 PM	#43
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 8,041 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 160	^ Very true. It's really just an ectomorphic excuse to eat junk food bro. They think because they aren't endos prone to gaining fat they are "above" putting in the leg work. I'll be damned if that's not what it is. __________________

01-12-2007, 03:48 AM	#45
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 3,979 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 113	^ genetic freak. I have good success eating clean all the time and eating clean MUCH of the time. The difference is not noticeable. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition