Liver protectant 101

Ghosting · 07-21-2005, 08:38 AM

My 2 biggies are NAC & milk thistle. So I decided to study them so I knew how they worked as opposed to saying they protect the liver while on cycle, man I am glad I did. NAC protects the liver by creating enzymes that break down stuff. The thing that bothered me about this and more research confirmed, the enzymes help to break down the stuff we are cycling, rendering it useless (obviously not everything). Methylated substrances have more protection from this but they to are subject to this. Basically the enzymes do the job that the liver normally does by helping, breaking down (destroying) the compound because it sees it as a toxin. Needless to say, I will never take NAC on cycle again.
Milk thistle sounds much more promising. I'll say it the way Mr Rea did in his book (not word for word, but you will get the idea). Milk thistle prevents toxins from going in and help toxins to come out of the cell. It also has the potential to inrease RNA synthesis which speeds up cell regeneration. So with this information, why do I always see milk thistle being recommended off cycle only? When clearly it should be taken during the cycle too. Discuss.

**BobThePotato** · 07-21-2005, 06:23 PM

Well although i have no experience with this I always thought it should be taken pre/during/post, especially with methylated substances for health reasons. Although like you said in your post, i heard it can reduce the effectiveness of substances when run during the cycle. But by having no experience with this i can neither confirm nor deny :saint:

DarkFalcon · 07-24-2005, 11:43 PM

Can you post the studies linking NAC to the destruction of hormones? I can't see it or it wouldn't be perscribed to aids patients who take it to prevent muscle wasting and detoxify their bodies. NAC works by acting as a source of cysteine and stimulating the production of GSH. GSH is the compound that breaks down toxic free radicals. When the liver is overloaded and there isn't enough of the amino acid cysteine the body breaks down muscle to get the protein which obviously isn't something we want. The GSH is produced naturally in the body and if it was to break down hormones we would all be in big trouble. What it does is eliminate poisonous substances and toxins produced by steroids passing through the liver. NAC works by increasing GSH levels and helping the liver eliminate toxins not the hormone itself.

Vegeto · 07-25-2005, 12:02 AM

Careful with them methalated ph, your liver is the main chemical regulator in your body, it works in conjunction with the pancreas to produce insuline for one thing. It aint no appendix.

That being said, I think you should run the milk thistle durring cycle, and both the milk thistle and the NAC with your PCT.

Just for anyone wondering, I haven't taken any PH/PS since before the ban, no regrets in quitting.

Ghosting · 07-25-2005, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFalcon

Can you post the studies linking NAC to the destruction of hormones? I can't see it or it wouldn't be perscribed to aids patients who take it to prevent muscle wasting and detoxify their bodies. NAC works by acting as a source of cysteine and stimulating the production of GSH. GSH is the compound that breaks down toxic free radicals. When the liver is overloaded and there isn't enough of the amino acid cysteine the body breaks down muscle to get the protein which obviously isn't something we want. The GSH is produced naturally in the body and if it was to break down hormones we would all be in big trouble. What it does is eliminate poisonous substances and toxins produced by steroids passing through the liver. NAC works by increasing GSH levels and helping the liver eliminate toxins not the hormone itself.

F that. :scared1: You just gave me an intellectual beating on NAC. What I read was an opinion of someone who was supposed to be respected. Obviously he was wrong and that makes me wrong about NAC. Milk T is pretty close to what I read out of Mr Reas book BTPB. Im glad you came along and corrected that DF otherwise I would go around spreading bad info. Thanks.

DarkFalcon · 07-25-2005, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghosting

F that. :scared1: You just gave me an intellectual beating on NAC. What I read was an opinion of someone who was supposed to be respected. Obviously he was wrong and that makes me wrong about NAC. Milk T is pretty close to what I read out of Mr Reas book BTPB. Im glad you came along and corrected that DF otherwise I would go around spreading bad info. Thanks.

lol.I'm not 100% sure that's why I was asking to see the study he got the information from. I can't see intuatively how it's possible but I'm certainly not an expert on endocrinology.

Ghosting · 07-25-2005, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFalcon

lol.I'm not 100% sure that's why I was asking to see the study he got the information from. I can't see intuatively how it's possible but I'm certainly not an expert on endocrinology.

Well you just beat my pants of on NAC. :fruity:

Ghosting · 07-25-2005, 12:34 AM

I cant even remember where I got the info on NAC from. I just remember it was someone important (so I just thought I could believe what I read).

Ghosting · 09-04-2005, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghosting

, why do I always see milk thistle being recommended off cycle only? When clearly it should be taken during the cycle too. Discuss.

Dr.D talking about MT on SD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.D

Why use milk thistle (an anti-androgen basically) when you're on something so non-androgenic in the first place? Actually, I don't use MT on M4OHN either and it's fairly androgenic, so that may not be the best argument. Still, I base the need for liver protection on transaminase values. SD is so mild to my enzymes, that I don't risk the reduction in gains with the detoxifiers.

I spoke to soon.

**Pioneer** · 09-04-2005, 03:32 PM

right so on more anabolic cycles like SD which makes dry gains you can take something like MT on cycle without a problem. but if you put it in with MAX LMG then its probably going to render it usless.

Ghosting · 09-04-2005, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioneer

right so on more anabolic cycles like SD which makes dry gains you can take something like MT on cycle without a problem. but if you put it in with MAX LMG then its probably going to render it usless.

Exactly. I jumped the gun on making the assumptipn that MT should be taken on cycle.

Now either nobody knew (which I really doubt) or nobody wanted to correct me. :mask: In my case I dont take offense to being debated or corrected.

07-21-2005, 08:38 AM	#1
Ghosting IronMass Donator Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,801 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 22	Liver protectant 101 My 2 biggies are NAC & milk thistle. So I decided to study them so I knew how they worked as opposed to saying they protect the liver while on cycle, man I am glad I did. NAC protects the liver by creating enzymes that break down stuff. The thing that bothered me about this and more research confirmed, the enzymes help to break down the stuff we are cycling, rendering it useless (obviously not everything). Methylated substrances have more protection from this but they to are subject to this. Basically the enzymes do the job that the liver normally does by helping, breaking down (destroying) the compound because it sees it as a toxin. Needless to say, I will never take NAC on cycle again. Milk thistle sounds much more promising. I'll say it the way Mr Rea did in his book (not word for word, but you will get the idea). Milk thistle prevents toxins from going in and help toxins to come out of the cell. It also has the potential to inrease RNA synthesis which speeds up cell regeneration. So with this information, why do I always see milk thistle being recommended off cycle only? When clearly it should be taken during the cycle too. Discuss. __________________ Robcardu is the Jesus of the 90s.

07-21-2005, 06:23 PM	#2
BobThePotato Nublarsaurusrex Join Date: May 2005 Location: Calgary//Alberta Posts: 513 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 21	Well although i have no experience with this I always thought it should be taken pre/during/post, especially with methylated substances for health reasons. Although like you said in your post, i heard it can reduce the effectiveness of substances when run during the cycle. But by having no experience with this i can neither confirm nor deny :saint: __________________ "Geadelt ist wer Schmerzen kennt vom Feuer das in Lust verbrennt."

07-25-2005, 12:02 AM	#4
Vegeto blameless sinner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 803 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 15	Careful with them methalated ph, your liver is the main chemical regulator in your body, it works in conjunction with the pancreas to produce insuline for one thing. It aint no appendix. That being said, I think you should run the milk thistle durring cycle, and both the milk thistle and the NAC with your PCT. Just for anyone wondering, I haven't taken any PH/PS since before the ban, no regrets in quitting. __________________ ______________ ________________ ......Busy Training...... __________________ ________________ __________________

07-25-2005, 12:34 AM	#8
Ghosting IronMass Donator Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,801 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 22	I cant even remember where I got the info on NAC from. I just remember it was someone important (so I just thought I could believe what I read). __________________ Robcardu is the Jesus of the 90s.

09-04-2005, 03:32 PM	#10
Pioneer Moderator Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,726 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 75	right so on more anabolic cycles like SD which makes dry gains you can take something like MT on cycle without a problem. but if you put it in with MAX LMG then its probably going to render it usless. __________________ "A Marine in battle fears disgracing himself by running. He fears not losing his life, but losing his honor. He may not be able to preserve his life, but he can always preserve his honor. That much is within his power... To fear disgrace but not death, to fear not duty but dereliction from duty -- this is courage." -FMFM 1-0 "Leading Marines" pg. 43 Drive on

07-24-2005, 11:43 PM	#3
DarkFalcon I've got a RAGING clue! Join Date: May 2005 Location: dnyc99's cleaning staff Posts: 11,511 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 299	Can you post the studies linking NAC to the destruction of hormones? I can't see it or it wouldn't be perscribed to aids patients who take it to prevent muscle wasting and detoxify their bodies. NAC works by acting as a source of cysteine and stimulating the production of GSH. GSH is the compound that breaks down toxic free radicals. When the liver is overloaded and there isn't enough of the amino acid cysteine the body breaks down muscle to get the protein which obviously isn't something we want. The GSH is produced naturally in the body and if it was to break down hormones we would all be in big trouble. What it does is eliminate poisonous substances and toxins produced by steroids passing through the liver. NAC works by increasing GSH levels and helping the liver eliminate toxins not the hormone itself.

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