HELP ME CONVINCE MY MOM CREATINE IS SAFE TO USE

danman77220 · 02-03-2007, 05:03 AM

I bought a container of Phosphagen HP 5 days ago. I did so without my parents knowledge. I tried convincing them that it was fine to use short term, but they still weren't convinced. So Monday,I had $25 on me and I though, what the heck, I'm gonna get some.

And 3 days later my parents found it.

I'm in the middle of a battle with both of my parents, well, mainly my mom, as to whether or not it is safe to use. My mom's main argument is that it hasn't been tested long term... but the funny thing is, is that I've told her time and time again that I'm only going to use it for a month or two, just to get my lifts up, and then slowly taper off of it. She's just so stubborn... I mean for Christs sake I'm going to be 18 in 8 months and I'm just going to go buy some then anyway, I don't see what her deal is. I know she cares about me but this is so ridiculous.

So people, give me a hand here. Help my find info that could sway my mom's opinion. I already have these articles:

http://www.webmd.com/content/Article...m?pagenumber=2
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/13/1685_50278.htm
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/17/1676_50579.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatin...ic_Performance (the part about short-term use)
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupple...reatinecs.html

Keep in mind, my mom is a stickler for SOURCES. Sites such as bodybuilding.com, creatinemonohydrate.com or anything else with a creatine bias will not sway her opinion AT ALL.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

**skelooth** · 02-03-2007, 05:47 AM

just tell her that Jay cutler uses creatine and show her a picture

**powerman2000** · 02-03-2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

just tell her that Jay cutler uses creatine and show her a picture

LOL, no seriously just tell her that it's naturally occuring in red meat so how can it be unsafe to use.

danman77220 · 02-03-2007, 05:40 PM

I've told her that already. She thinks taking it in such high doses might be dangerous.

Yet she let's me take multivitamins with well over 300% my daily value of almost all of the vitamins.

And I can take whey protein in large amounts... I don't get it.

**Peaked_18** · 02-03-2007, 05:54 PM

Just eat, lift, and sleep.

**NYCmitch25** · 02-03-2007, 06:57 PM

^hes right

TBO I dont think you need it. Pick your battles bro. She let you have the whey protien which is good enuff. Is it really worth it? Pjus shes right it hasnt been tested long term. I personally think its safe but who knows for sure. I have a hunch my body becomes more and more dependant on creatine as i take it over the years. I think the cycling of it is important to counteract the dependancy.

**Ikaika** · 02-03-2007, 07:21 PM

Well, it sounds like she doesn't want to listen to what you have to say. If articles published on reputable web site such as bodybuilding.com aren't good enough for her then Pubmed is probably your only resource. Here is a review I found...keep in mind that the term "review" in primary scientific literature is used for a short paper that doesn't list methods, materials, etc. the way traditional papers do.

Pubmed link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

" Risk assessment for creatine monohydrate.

* Shao A,
* Hathcock JN.

Council for Responsible Nutrition, 1828 L St., NW, Suite 900,Washington, DC 20036-5114, USA. ashao@crnusa.org

Creatine monohydrate (creatine) has become an increasingly popular ingredient in dietary supplements, especially sports nutrition products. A large body of human and animal research suggests that creatine does have a consistent ergogenic effect, particularly with exercises or activities requiring high intensity short bursts of energy. Human data are primarily derived from three types of studies: acute studies, involving high doses (20 g/d) with short duration (< or = 1 week), chronic studies involving lower doses (3-5 g/d) and longer duration (1 year), or a combination of both. Systematic evaluation of the research designs and data do not provide a basis for risk assessment and the usual safe Upper Level of Intake (UL) derived from it unless the newer methods described as the Observed Safe Level (OSL) or Highest Observed Intake (HOI) are utilized. The OSL risk assessment method indicates that the evidence of safety is strong at intakes up to 5 g/d for chronic supplementation, and this level is identified as the OSL. Although much higher levels have been tested under acute conditions without adverse effects and may be safe, the data for intakes above 5 g/d are not sufficient for a confident conclusion of long-term safety.

PMID: 16814437 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"

Don't let her flip out because it says "chronic." That just means that it can be taken over a long period of time(the subjects of the study used it for a full year!)

If you just type in "creatine monohydrate" in www.Pubmed.com you should be able to pull up some more info. Alternatively you could just do the search and then tell your mom to read whatever she wants from the results that come back. That way she can't accuse you of picking and choosing what you show her.

**romanaz** · 02-03-2007, 09:09 PM

If you want, I'll pull some studies up on my colleges database and see if I can find links outside of it (so you can show her) or maybe give you the journal/article it was in and you can bring it up @ the local library.

danman77220 · 02-04-2007, 02:31 AM

That'd be great, Romanaz. If it's not too much trouble.

**NYCmitch25** · 02-04-2007, 02:49 AM

IDK Ill go on a limb ... just lie to her lol. Only need to take it twice a day. Tell her its cocaine *sigh*

wannabstrong · 02-04-2007, 11:42 PM

Here's an article on creatine that uses 200 sources. About 5 are of studies on "long-term" use, the other parts of the article go into details about the effect on hormones, muscle fiber, athletic performance etc. It should help you out some:

http://tssupplements.com/articles.php?id=23

**DJSTARER** · 02-05-2007, 05:45 AM

how long have been lifting for? creatine isn't a necessary supp to be taking for most beginners. Eating will have a much greater impact on your lifts. The fact is, it sounds like you mom has done some reading. She isn't being bothersome to you just because she wants to piss you off. She believes there is a legit long term health issue. To some extent, she is right, and there has been very limited unbiased testing on creatine. I'm not saying it's dangerous, but I am saying even short term use may be harmful to your body. Get your lifts up without it first, become more mature as a lifter, and you'll see your mom's arguement will not only become more sensible, but you mom may see you as a more responsible person who has a vast understanding of sports nutrition.

My mom always used to question my uses of even protein, but as I've grown physically and emotionally, my credibility as a knowledgeable (in her eye) has grown to the point that she only asks why I take what I take, and how it might benefit her if she took it. She may largely believe you are simply lost in the world of advertisment, cultural pressure and even slanted opinions from other lifters. I know I have been (and likely will again in the future) guilty of following something because everyone says it is the thing to do. Creatine is just a supp, and even though the vast majority of us report gains with it(myself included), just consider waiting.

danman77220 · 02-05-2007, 06:01 AM

I guess you guys are right... I'm gonna start bulking and just eating more again. I haven't been seeing as good of progress as I'd have hoped for in my cutting, and my gains were going up fast before I started. Thanks all.

**Peaked_18** · 02-05-2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danman77220

I guess you guys are right... I'm gonna start bulking and just eating more again. I haven't been seeing as good of progress as I'd have hoped for in my cutting, and my gains were going up fast before I started. Thanks all.

Your trying to lose weight, don't expect a whole lot of gain in muscle mass.

Fighting battles you will probably not win. Just wait a year or so.

danman77220 · 02-05-2007, 06:46 PM

No, what I'm saying is that I'm going to quit cutting. I'm gonna start bulking again.

**Peaked_18** · 02-05-2007, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danman77220

No, what I'm saying is that I'm going to quit cutting. I'm gonna start bulking again.

lol Looks like a mix of what I said and what I quoted.

02-03-2007, 05:03 AM	#1
danman77220 Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,030 Recipes: 1 Rep Power: 50	HELP ME CONVINCE MY MOM CREATINE IS SAFE TO USE I bought a container of Phosphagen HP 5 days ago. I did so without my parents knowledge. I tried convincing them that it was fine to use short term, but they still weren't convinced. So Monday,I had $25 on me and I though, what the heck, I'm gonna get some. And 3 days later my parents found it. I'm in the middle of a battle with both of my parents, well, mainly my mom, as to whether or not it is safe to use. My mom's main argument is that it hasn't been tested long term... but the funny thing is, is that I've told her time and time again that I'm only going to use it for a month or two, just to get my lifts up, and then slowly taper off of it. She's just so stubborn... I mean for Christs sake I'm going to be 18 in 8 months and I'm just going to go buy some then anyway, I don't see what her deal is. I know she cares about me but this is so ridiculous. So people, give me a hand here. Help my find info that could sway my mom's opinion. I already have these articles: http://www.webmd.com/content/Article...m?pagenumber=2 http://www.webmd.com/content/article/13/1685_50278.htm http://www.webmd.com/content/article/17/1676_50579.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatin...ic_Performance (the part about short-term use) http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupple...reatinecs.html Keep in mind, my mom is a stickler for SOURCES. Sites such as bodybuilding.com, creatinemonohydrate.com or anything else with a creatine bias will not sway her opinion AT ALL. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks guys. __________________ Accomplishment tastes better than cheesecake. Stats(/goals): Age: 18 Weight: 193 BF%: 19%/8% Max Lifts B: Poop S: Pee D: Status: Gaining back strength and size after tonsillectomy My Training Log

02-03-2007, 05:47 AM	#2
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,205 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	just tell her that Jay cutler uses creatine and show her a picture __________________ R I P

02-03-2007, 05:40 PM	#4
danman77220 Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,030 Recipes: 1 Rep Power: 50	I've told her that already. She thinks taking it in such high doses might be dangerous. Yet she let's me take multivitamins with well over 300% my daily value of almost all of the vitamins. And I can take whey protein in large amounts... I don't get it. __________________ Accomplishment tastes better than cheesecake. Stats(/goals): Age: 18 Weight: 193 BF%: 19%/8% Max Lifts B: Poop S: Pee D: Status: Gaining back strength and size after tonsillectomy My Training Log

02-03-2007, 06:57 PM	#6
NYCmitch25 Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,117 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 52	^hes right TBO I dont think you need it. Pick your battles bro. She let you have the whey protien which is good enuff. Is it really worth it? Pjus shes right it hasnt been tested long term. I personally think its safe but who knows for sure. I have a hunch my body becomes more and more dependant on creatine as i take it over the years. I think the cycling of it is important to counteract the dependancy. __________________ "I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds." - Rollins

02-03-2007, 07:21 PM	#7
Ikaika resident degen Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 3,908 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 222	Well, it sounds like she doesn't want to listen to what you have to say. If articles published on reputable web site such as bodybuilding.com aren't good enough for her then Pubmed is probably your only resource. Here is a review I found...keep in mind that the term "review" in primary scientific literature is used for a short paper that doesn't list methods, materials, etc. the way traditional papers do. Pubmed link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum " Risk assessment for creatine monohydrate. * Shao A, * Hathcock JN. Council for Responsible Nutrition, 1828 L St., NW, Suite 900,Washington, DC 20036-5114, USA. ashao@crnusa.org Creatine monohydrate (creatine) has become an increasingly popular ingredient in dietary supplements, especially sports nutrition products. A large body of human and animal research suggests that creatine does have a consistent ergogenic effect, particularly with exercises or activities requiring high intensity short bursts of energy. Human data are primarily derived from three types of studies: acute studies, involving high doses (20 g/d) with short duration (< or = 1 week), chronic studies involving lower doses (3-5 g/d) and longer duration (1 year), or a combination of both. Systematic evaluation of the research designs and data do not provide a basis for risk assessment and the usual safe Upper Level of Intake (UL) derived from it unless the newer methods described as the Observed Safe Level (OSL) or Highest Observed Intake (HOI) are utilized. The OSL risk assessment method indicates that the evidence of safety is strong at intakes up to 5 g/d for chronic supplementation, and this level is identified as the OSL. Although much higher levels have been tested under acute conditions without adverse effects and may be safe, the data for intakes above 5 g/d are not sufficient for a confident conclusion of long-term safety. PMID: 16814437 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]" Don't let her flip out because it says "chronic." That just means that it can be taken over a long period of time(the subjects of the study used it for a full year!) If you just type in "creatine monohydrate" in www.Pubmed.com you should be able to pull up some more info. Alternatively you could just do the search and then tell your mom to read whatever she wants from the results that come back. That way she can't accuse you of picking and choosing what you show her. __________________ No supplement can make up for the lack of a strong work ethic.

02-03-2007, 05:54 PM	#5
Peaked_18 a la commode Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,247 Recipes: 2 Rep Power: 96	Just eat, lift, and sleep.

02-04-2007, 02:31 AM	#9
danman77220 Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,030 Recipes: 1 Rep Power: 50	That'd be great, Romanaz. If it's not too much trouble. __________________ Accomplishment tastes better than cheesecake. Stats(/goals): Age: 18 Weight: 193 BF%: 19%/8% Max Lifts B: Poop S: Pee D: Status: Gaining back strength and size after tonsillectomy My Training Log

02-04-2007, 02:49 AM	#10
NYCmitch25 Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,117 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 52	IDK Ill go on a limb ... just lie to her lol. Only need to take it twice a day. Tell her its cocaine sigh __________________ "I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds." - Rollins

02-04-2007, 11:42 PM	#11
wannabstrong Pro Stature Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 105 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 14	Here's an article on creatine that uses 200 sources. About 5 are of studies on "long-term" use, the other parts of the article go into details about the effect on hormones, muscle fiber, athletic performance etc. It should help you out some: http://tssupplements.com/articles.php?id=23

02-05-2007, 05:45 AM	#12
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,176 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 118	how long have been lifting for? creatine isn't a necessary supp to be taking for most beginners. Eating will have a much greater impact on your lifts. The fact is, it sounds like you mom has done some reading. She isn't being bothersome to you just because she wants to piss you off. She believes there is a legit long term health issue. To some extent, she is right, and there has been very limited unbiased testing on creatine. I'm not saying it's dangerous, but I am saying even short term use may be harmful to your body. Get your lifts up without it first, become more mature as a lifter, and you'll see your mom's arguement will not only become more sensible, but you mom may see you as a more responsible person who has a vast understanding of sports nutrition. My mom always used to question my uses of even protein, but as I've grown physically and emotionally, my credibility as a knowledgeable (in her eye) has grown to the point that she only asks why I take what I take, and how it might benefit her if she took it. She may largely believe you are simply lost in the world of advertisment, cultural pressure and even slanted opinions from other lifters. I know I have been (and likely will again in the future) guilty of following something because everyone says it is the thing to do. Creatine is just a supp, and even though the vast majority of us report gains with it(myself included), just consider waiting. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

02-05-2007, 06:01 AM	#13
danman77220 Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,030 Recipes: 1 Rep Power: 50	I guess you guys are right... I'm gonna start bulking and just eating more again. I haven't been seeing as good of progress as I'd have hoped for in my cutting, and my gains were going up fast before I started. Thanks all. __________________ Accomplishment tastes better than cheesecake. Stats(/goals): Age: 18 Weight: 193 BF%: 19%/8% Max Lifts B: Poop S: Pee D: Status: Gaining back strength and size after tonsillectomy My Training Log

02-05-2007, 06:46 PM	#15
danman77220 Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,030 Recipes: 1 Rep Power: 50	No, what I'm saying is that I'm going to quit cutting. I'm gonna start bulking again. __________________ Accomplishment tastes better than cheesecake. Stats(/goals): Age: 18 Weight: 193 BF%: 19%/8% Max Lifts B: Poop S: Pee D: Status: Gaining back strength and size after tonsillectomy My Training Log