Glucosamine Chondroitin

**romanaz** · 12-18-2006, 11:21 PM

worth taking or not? I seem to have messed my elbow up a bit and wonder if its worth taking to help out.

thanks :-D

**Succio** · 12-18-2006, 11:24 PM

get it with MSM as well, it helped me

although, it takes a few weeks to START working

**romanaz** · 12-18-2006, 11:25 PM

I got time, my elbow will probably be good in a few days because it doesn't feel to bad, but why take a risk?

**Succio** · 12-18-2006, 11:30 PM

take some aspirin before you bench

**romanaz** · 12-18-2006, 11:31 PM

aspirin = bad for stomach and what not. no pain killers

**NYCmitch25** · 12-19-2006, 12:38 AM

nope proven ineffective...some still take it. ppl like adequan (believe it or not) and of coarse cissus

aspirin or anti-inflamatories i wouldnt get into a habit of taking. not great for the liver and in high dosages can hinder protien synthesis. also mask a more seriousl problem/injury

**romanaz** · 12-19-2006, 12:45 AM

wait, say what mitch?

**NYCmitch25** · 12-19-2006, 01:44 AM

(AP) -- Two hot-selling supplements used by millions of Americans are of little help to most people with mild arthritis, concludes a large government study that is part of an effort to scrutinize unregulated health remedies.

For most arthritis patients with aching knees, the health food store supplements, glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate, turned out to be no better than dummy pills. People who had more acute knee pain seemed to show some benefit.

Because of that hint of possible relief and other factors, the study may not settle the debate about these unproven treatments even though it's considered the largest and most scientific test to date.

"We still have a bit of a conundrum," said Dr. Tim McAlindon, a Tufts University rheumatologist who had no role in the research.

Rheumatologist Dr. Daniel Clegg of the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, who led the study, suggested people with severe arthritis talk to their doctors about trying the supplements short-term to see if they work.

More than 20 million Americans suffer from osteoarthritis, the most common form of arthritis. That number is expected to double in the next two decades as baby boomers age. Osteoarthritis is a degenerative joint disease that affects the knees, hips, back and the small joints in the fingers.

The search for pain relief helped boost worldwide sales of glucosamine and chondroitin to $1.7 billion last year, according to the Nutrition Business Journal, which tracks supplements. The supplements -- made from animal cartilage and shellfish -- have had even wider appeal amid safety concerns over certain painkillers, including the arthritis medicine Vioxx, which was yanked from the market in 2004.

At least 5 million Americans use the two supplements either alone or together, government figures show. President Bush was among the customers for a while because of knee pain, but spokeswoman Dana Perino said Wednesday the president no longer takes the supplements. Bush has replaced running with mountain biking.

The supplements showed no known side effects during the government's six-month study, but the scientists didn't address the safety of longer-term use.

The arthritis research, published in Thursday's New England Journal of Medicine, is the third major study in a year to find no overall benefit from some of the most popular nutritional supplements. Recently, research showed the herb saw palmetto didn't reduce symptoms of an enlarged prostate, and last year a study indicated echinacea didn't prevent or treat colds.

Unlike drugs, such supplements are not regulated by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and their makers don't have to prove the products are safe or effective.

The Arthritis Foundation said Wednesday it was recommending people with severe knee pain speak to their doctors about whether combined glucosamine-chondroitin therapy might be a good addition to their overall treatment. Generally, arthritis sufferers are urged to exercise, keep their weight down and try hot and cold therapy, along with painkillers if needed.

One person who plans to keep using the supplements is 72-year-old Irene Schwartzburt. She said the unregulated remedies relieved the "sticking pain" in her right knee when painkillers failed.

"I want to stay active," said the retired teacher from Plainview, New York. "The supplements work for me so why not continue with them?"

In the government study, funded by the National Institutes of Health, 1,583 patients with arthritis knee pain received one of five treatments: either glucosamine or chondroitin, a combination of both, the painkiller Celebrex or dummy pills. Neither the doctors nor patients knew which treatment was given.

After six months, patients filled out a questionnaire to determine how many felt a 20 percent reduction in pain. Researchers found the supplements when taken alone or together were no more effective than dummy pills at pain relief.

Sixty percent who took the dummy medication had reduced pain compared with 64 percent who took glucosamine, 65 percent who took chondroitin and 67 percent who took the combo pills. These differences were so small that they could have occurred by chance alone.

The drug Celebrex did reduce pain -- 70 percent reported improvement -- affirming the study's validity. However, the drug is being studied to see if it's safe for people at risk of heart problems.

Of the 354 people with moderate to severe pain, 79 percent who took both supplements reported relief compared with 54 percent who took the dummy pills and 69 percent who took Celebrex.

In a journal editorial, Dr. Marc Hochberg of the University of Maryland noted the study's limitations: a high dropout rate (20 percent) and a whopping 60 percent who said the dummy pills made them feel better -- double the usual placebo effect. Hochberg has received consulting fees from Pfizer Inc., which makes Celebrex, and Merck & Co., which made Vioxx.

Clegg and 10 other researchers in the study reported receiving fees or grant support from Pfizer or McNeil Consumer & Specialty Pharmaceuticals, which makes Tylenol.

The Council for Responsible Nutrition, which represents dietary supplement makers, said it was pleased about the positive findings in the severe arthritis group.

**bubba g** · 12-19-2006, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romanaz

worth taking or not? I seem to have messed my elbow up a bit and wonder if its worth taking to help out.

thanks :-D

It really depends on what is causing the pain.. it could be micro tears in your connective tissue.. this happened to my friend, and he had to not lift for a long time for it to heal..

it bothered him when he went to curl if he had his hands tightly around the bar, but it didn't bother him if he kept his hands open when he curled...

It could be inflamation in the joint, or tendon.... Honestly I would take Ibuprophen, and see if it helps it alot.. if it does than swelling is likely the cause of discomfort. If it doesn't help much, it is probably something else.

**Jayhawkk** · 12-19-2006, 02:49 AM

Yes it works but it works like a lubrication and doesn't repair anything so once you stop taking it expect the pain to come back. I took that plus cissus to get the lubrication plus the repair and it has worked wonders.

**romanaz** · 12-19-2006, 05:13 AM

well, what I did to do it was I think (pretty sure) that my left arm relaxed right before I pulled on a rep and it snapped into lockout and wham! injury. soo idk what it could be, but i'll run this for a month and then see whats up. hopefully i don't need time off.

**bubba g** · 12-19-2006, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

Yes it works but it works like a lubrication and doesn't repair anything so once you stop taking it expect the pain to come back. I took that plus cissus to get the lubrication plus the repair and it has worked wonders.

everyone I know who has used cissus says it is great stuff....

**bubba g** · 12-19-2006, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romanaz

well, what I did to do it was I think (pretty sure) that my left arm relaxed right before I pulled on a rep and it snapped into lockout and wham! injury. soo idk what it could be, but i'll run this for a month and then see whats up. hopefully i don't need time off.

well there is always leg work... I ruptured my bicep a while back in the worst place you could do it as far as healing goes.. long story short no upper body workouts for 7 months... It sucked not being able to train upper body, but Squats got me through it.... and once I was able to lift upper body again my strength, and size came back in no time...

**romanaz** · 12-19-2006, 05:32 AM

true, but, if you look @ my sig you can see how much my squat and deadlift outweigh my bench anyhow! lol

**A.FreeRadical** · 12-19-2006, 10:01 AM

I use 4 tablets of Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM every day. It does work for sore connective tissue caused by lifting. (knees, shoulders, elbows and wrists) It doesn't help my arthritus in my ankles though. I have taken 6 grams of MSM daily to expedite the healing of tendonitus. I had this once for 8 weeks and then took the large doses of MSM for a couple of weeks and it went away.

GC and MSM take about 4 weeks to start being effective, so it is best to take it daily.

*

12-18-2006, 11:24 PM	#2
Succio IronMass Sponsor Join Date: May 2006 Location: beastville Posts: 1,940 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 97	get it with MSM as well, it helped me although, it takes a few weeks to START working __________________ SUPPLEMENTS.NET REP

12-18-2006, 11:30 PM	#4
Succio IronMass Sponsor Join Date: May 2006 Location: beastville Posts: 1,940 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 97	take some aspirin before you bench __________________ SUPPLEMENTS.NET REP

12-19-2006, 12:38 AM	#6
NYCmitch25 Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,096 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 50	nope proven ineffective...some still take it. ppl like adequan (believe it or not) and of coarse cissus aspirin or anti-inflamatories i wouldnt get into a habit of taking. not great for the liver and in high dosages can hinder protien synthesis. also mask a more seriousl problem/injury __________________ "I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds." - Rollins

12-19-2006, 01:44 AM	#8
NYCmitch25 Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,096 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 50	(AP) -- Two hot-selling supplements used by millions of Americans are of little help to most people with mild arthritis, concludes a large government study that is part of an effort to scrutinize unregulated health remedies. For most arthritis patients with aching knees, the health food store supplements, glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate, turned out to be no better than dummy pills. People who had more acute knee pain seemed to show some benefit. Because of that hint of possible relief and other factors, the study may not settle the debate about these unproven treatments even though it's considered the largest and most scientific test to date. "We still have a bit of a conundrum," said Dr. Tim McAlindon, a Tufts University rheumatologist who had no role in the research. Rheumatologist Dr. Daniel Clegg of the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, who led the study, suggested people with severe arthritis talk to their doctors about trying the supplements short-term to see if they work. More than 20 million Americans suffer from osteoarthritis, the most common form of arthritis. That number is expected to double in the next two decades as baby boomers age. Osteoarthritis is a degenerative joint disease that affects the knees, hips, back and the small joints in the fingers. The search for pain relief helped boost worldwide sales of glucosamine and chondroitin to $1.7 billion last year, according to the Nutrition Business Journal, which tracks supplements. The supplements -- made from animal cartilage and shellfish -- have had even wider appeal amid safety concerns over certain painkillers, including the arthritis medicine Vioxx, which was yanked from the market in 2004. At least 5 million Americans use the two supplements either alone or together, government figures show. President Bush was among the customers for a while because of knee pain, but spokeswoman Dana Perino said Wednesday the president no longer takes the supplements. Bush has replaced running with mountain biking. The supplements showed no known side effects during the government's six-month study, but the scientists didn't address the safety of longer-term use. The arthritis research, published in Thursday's New England Journal of Medicine, is the third major study in a year to find no overall benefit from some of the most popular nutritional supplements. Recently, research showed the herb saw palmetto didn't reduce symptoms of an enlarged prostate, and last year a study indicated echinacea didn't prevent or treat colds. Unlike drugs, such supplements are not regulated by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and their makers don't have to prove the products are safe or effective. The Arthritis Foundation said Wednesday it was recommending people with severe knee pain speak to their doctors about whether combined glucosamine-chondroitin therapy might be a good addition to their overall treatment. Generally, arthritis sufferers are urged to exercise, keep their weight down and try hot and cold therapy, along with painkillers if needed. One person who plans to keep using the supplements is 72-year-old Irene Schwartzburt. She said the unregulated remedies relieved the "sticking pain" in her right knee when painkillers failed. "I want to stay active," said the retired teacher from Plainview, New York. "The supplements work for me so why not continue with them?" In the government study, funded by the National Institutes of Health, 1,583 patients with arthritis knee pain received one of five treatments: either glucosamine or chondroitin, a combination of both, the painkiller Celebrex or dummy pills. Neither the doctors nor patients knew which treatment was given. After six months, patients filled out a questionnaire to determine how many felt a 20 percent reduction in pain. Researchers found the supplements when taken alone or together were no more effective than dummy pills at pain relief. Sixty percent who took the dummy medication had reduced pain compared with 64 percent who took glucosamine, 65 percent who took chondroitin and 67 percent who took the combo pills. These differences were so small that they could have occurred by chance alone. The drug Celebrex did reduce pain -- 70 percent reported improvement -- affirming the study's validity. However, the drug is being studied to see if it's safe for people at risk of heart problems. Of the 354 people with moderate to severe pain, 79 percent who took both supplements reported relief compared with 54 percent who took the dummy pills and 69 percent who took Celebrex. In a journal editorial, Dr. Marc Hochberg of the University of Maryland noted the study's limitations: a high dropout rate (20 percent) and a whopping 60 percent who said the dummy pills made them feel better -- double the usual placebo effect. Hochberg has received consulting fees from Pfizer Inc., which makes Celebrex, and Merck & Co., which made Vioxx. Clegg and 10 other researchers in the study reported receiving fees or grant support from Pfizer or McNeil Consumer & Specialty Pharmaceuticals, which makes Tylenol. The Council for Responsible Nutrition, which represents dietary supplement makers, said it was pleased about the positive findings in the severe arthritis group. __________________ "I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds." - Rollins

12-19-2006, 02:49 AM	#10
Jayhawkk Nutraplanet Rep Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,106 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 44	Yes it works but it works like a lubrication and doesn't repair anything so once you stop taking it expect the pain to come back. I took that plus cissus to get the lubrication plus the repair and it has worked wonders. __________________ Nutraplanet.com for all your supplement needs! ------------------------------ Hangin's too good for 'em! BURNIN'S too good for 'em! They should be ripped into itsy-bitsy little pieces and BURIED ALIVE!

12-19-2006, 10:01 AM	#15
A.FreeRadical the Epicurean Bodybuilder Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,245 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 58	I use 4 tablets of Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM every day. It does work for sore connective tissue caused by lifting. (knees, shoulders, elbows and wrists) It doesn't help my arthritus in my ankles though. I have taken 6 grams of MSM daily to expedite the healing of tendonitus. I had this once for 8 weeks and then took the large doses of MSM for a couple of weeks and it went away. GC and MSM take about 4 weeks to start being effective, so it is best to take it daily. * __________________ "Is it going to be the red pill or the blue pill, Neo? The red pill will answer the question 'What is the Matrix?' Choose carefully. Remember, all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more." Ron Paul for President, 2008 A.FreeRadical ...the Epicurean bodybuilder Height: 5'9", Age: 62, My last high on 2/1/2006 was 196 lbs. My last low on 8/08/2006 was 167.5 lbs. Cutting until I am lean Starting weight: 190 lbs. bodyfat: 19.7% November 27th: 183 lbs. bodyfat: 18.3% bodyfat Goal Weight: 176 lbs with no more than 10% bodyfat My recipe collection

12-19-2006, 03:05 PM	#16
romanaz FDU Devils Weightlifter Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 4,915 Recipes: 1 Rep Power: 127