Pioneer

Alright I need help their are now an insane amount of creatine products out that I have lost track. Would you all help educate me on the difference between all these forms?

Creatine Gluconate
Kre-Alk
TriCreatine Orotate
Magnesium Creatine Chelate
Creatine Ester Orotate

please god help me.

__________________
"A Marine in battle fears disgracing himself by running. He fears not losing his life, but losing his honor. He may not be able to preserve his life, but he can always preserve his honor. That much is within his power... To fear disgrace but not death, to fear not duty but dereliction from duty -- this is courage."

-FMFM 1-0 "Leading Marines" pg. 43

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warriors

Umm i'll try my best.

Creatine Gluconate: Creatine bonded to glucose/glucose polymers

Kre alk: Pretty much monohydrate and baking soda. Supposedly more stable b/c of the ph value.

Tri-Creatine Orotate: Creatine bonded to orotic acid

Mag. Creatine Chelate: Creatine bonded with magnesium

Creatine ester orotate: I'm assuming CEE bonded with Orotic Acid.

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Pioneer

but what is the advantages of one over the other? these are different delivery methods but what make one better then the other or even no difference at all.

__________________
"A Marine in battle fears disgracing himself by running. He fears not losing his life, but losing his honor. He may not be able to preserve his life, but he can always preserve his honor. That much is within his power... To fear disgrace but not death, to fear not duty but dereliction from duty -- this is courage."

-FMFM 1-0 "Leading Marines" pg. 43

Drive on

warriors

Well Magnesium creatine chelate and Kre alk are suppose to be better than plain mono b/c they are supposedly more stable, less conversion to creatinine, and offer less bloat.

Tri-creatine orotate and Creatine ester orotate seem to get excellent reviews b/c of the mechanism of orotic acid and it's role on ATP synthesis. I'll hunt up that orotic acid article that explains it in detail if you're interested in further reading on how it works.

As for Creatine Gluconate i havent really read up on it. I'm assuming that since it is bonded to glucose/glucose polymers that it replenishes the muscle with glycogen after training.

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warriors

More info on Orotic Acid:

A genuine revolutionary breakthrough, creatine has been scientifically proven effective in maintaining ATP levels and increasing recovery during and following high intensity exercise. It is also a proven cell-volumizer, what is unknown to many of creatine is that it functions similar in fashion to carnosine in that it helps with the maintenance of cellular pH. Maintaining proper cell pH enhances performance! More evidence suggests creatine can reduce muscle damage from endurance exercise making it a great supplement for endurance and power athletes alike.

Orotic Acid (OA) is a precursor of pyrimidine and nucleic acids which are vital for optimal cell functioning and energy metabolism. OA enhances and maintains ATP pools in three ways:


The production of ribose moieties (R-1-P and R-5-P) for the salvage or de novo synthesis of purine nucleotides by a process know as "ribose transfer". Many of you may remember ribose (a sugar component of ATP) supplementation being touted as an enhancer of high intensity repetitive exercise performance. For a quick recap on the energy producing pathways of ribose seen.


The way OA enhances the formation of ATP is by providing the direct precursor to phosphoribosylpyrophosphate (PRPP) a key energy-supplying compound in the de-novo synthesis of purine and pyrimidine nucleotides (I know that's a real mouthful). The reserve of PRPP is poor because of the low capacity of the pentose phosphate pathway. Therefore the generation of ribose-5-phosphate (R-5-P) the immediate precursor to PRPP ribose supply can be enhanced with OA and as a result greater ATP regeneration.


The second pathway is by increasing the pool of Uridine Monophosphate (UMP), which requires ATP to convert to further downstream pyrimidine nucleotides (UTP & CTP). By increasing the levels of these nucleotides the draw on ATP reserves to synthesize them is decreased thereby enhancing the availability of ATP for other metabolic process such as energy and contractile producing pathways.

The final pathway is by means of elevation of intracellular glycogen stores. These elevated glycogen stores generated from a greater uptake of glucose lead to an enhanced capacity for ATP resynthesis from anaerobic glycolysis.
What this means is more energy for hard working muscles. Evidence also suggests OA can be used to synthesize carnosine (the ultimate buffering nutrient) by elevating its natural precursor "beta-alanine".

More recent studies have shown OA supplementation enhances endurance performance and exercise capacity. OA also has been shown to augment muscle hypertrophy and to increase the contractile capacity of muscle.


Aonuma, S., Hama, T., Tamaki, N., Okumura, H. (1969) Orotate as a beta-alanine donor for anserine and carnosine biosynthesis, and effects of actinomycin D and azauracil on their pathway. J.Biochem (Tokyo). 66 (2): 123-32.

Febbraio, M.A., Dancey, J. (1999) Skeletal muscle energy metabolism during prolonged, fatiguing exercise. J.Appl.Physiol. 87(6):2341-7.

Greenhaff PL, Casey A, Short AH, Harris R, Soderlund K, Hultman E. (1993) Influence of oral creatine supplementation of muscle torque during repeated bouts of maximal voluntary exercise in man. Clin.Sci. (Lond). 84: 565-71.

Rosenfeldt FL, Richards SM, Lin Z, Pepe S, Conyers RAJ. (1998) Mechanism of cardioprotective effect of orotic acid. Cardio.Drug.Ther. 12: 159-170.

Fausto N. (1972) The conversion of orotic acid into uridine 5-monophosphate b y isolated perfused normal and regenerating rat livers. Biochem.J. 129: 811-820.

Kypson J, Hait G, Mathew R. (1978) Effects of uridine on the performance and the metabolism of oxygenated and hypoxic rabbit hearts. J Mol Cell Cardiol. 10: 545-565

Kreider RB, Melton C, Greenwood M, Rasmussen C, Lundberg J, Earnest C, Almada A. (2003) Effects of oral D-ribose supplementation on anaerobic capacity and selected metabolic markers in healthy males. Int.J.Sport.Nutr.Exerc.Metab. 13: 76-86.

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Pioneer

alright good stuff. good overview, appreciate the help.

you ever used any of these? has anyone around here?

__________________
"A Marine in battle fears disgracing himself by running. He fears not losing his life, but losing his honor. He may not be able to preserve his life, but he can always preserve his honor. That much is within his power... To fear disgrace but not death, to fear not duty but dereliction from duty -- this is courage."

-FMFM 1-0 "Leading Marines" pg. 43

Drive on

warriors

ive used them all in conjunction with other ingredients except for tri creatine orotate.

Ive taken Size-On which has creatine gluconate in it. Kre alk is in NOS Ether and ive used it. MCC with Green bulge and Storm, and ive also used Nutrabolics CEO which is a creatine ester orotate product.

All of them were fairly good but my favorite was Size-On but i cant say it's strictly b/c of the creatine gluconate b/c it has a lot of other ingredients in it as well.

If you are looking for a more "innovative" creatine product check out MAN's Clout or Orotine which both contain the Tri-creatine orotate.

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Pioneer

thanks for the help. i just want one that works. creatine mono and CEE has given me little results.

__________________
"A Marine in battle fears disgracing himself by running. He fears not losing his life, but losing his honor. He may not be able to preserve his life, but he can always preserve his honor. That much is within his power... To fear disgrace but not death, to fear not duty but dereliction from duty -- this is courage."

-FMFM 1-0 "Leading Marines" pg. 43

Drive on