What exercises to build a good platform

Big Rev · 10-05-2005, 08:14 AM

Hi guys
My question is what exercises should i be doing to get a good platform to start from (does that make sence) :confused2
I'm out of rehab now and my physio has let me go so i can do anything i want now in terms of exercise

Should i focus on compound exercises??

My first goal is to lose fat and gain strength
Long term goal is to bulk :bigthumbu

**Peaked_18** · 10-05-2005, 03:59 PM

The simple basics.

1 Exercise for each muscle group doing a full-body workout three times a week monday/wednesday/friday.

Chest: Bench Press or Incline Press
Back: Deadlifts
Quadriceps: Squats
Hamstrings: Leg Curls
Deltoids: Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Biceps: Barbell Curls
Triceps: Close-Grip Press
Abs: Crunches
Calves: Calf Raises
Forearms: Wrist Curls, Reverse Wrist Curls

Rep Ranges:
3-4 sets 6-10 reps

Rep Ranges:
5 sets 25 reps

Rep Ranges:
3 sets 30 reps

Something simple, another thing you should do to build a base is a good diet plan.

**Peaked_18** · 10-05-2005, 04:00 PM

You should also switch those exercises every 2-3 weeks for back, chest, legs, etc.

Add more variety, plus need a width exercise for back like pull ups or lat pulldowns.

Big Rev · 10-06-2005, 12:56 PM

cheers peaked
i'm doing these in my workouts now so i'm on the right track

ZackMurphy · 10-06-2005, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaked_18

[b]Chest: Bench Press or Incline Press
Back: Deadlifts
Quadriceps: Squats
Hamstrings: Leg Curls
Deltoids: Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Biceps: Barbell Curls
Triceps: Close-Grip Press
Abs: Crunches
Calves: Calf Raises
Forearms: Wrist Curls, Reverse Wrist Curls

Agree with all, but the leg curls....

How about something compound and more primal, like stiff legged deadlifts? Then you could drop the dead lifts and do pull ups. A better pair, IMO.

I love deads, don't get me wrong, but leg curls are small-time, and if you're doing SLDLs, then you don't really need the deads so much. You know?

Ihateeveryone · 10-07-2005, 12:31 PM

Add pullups and a rowing movement for the back, stiff leg deads for the hams and lower back, and alternate between the close grip bench and dips for the tris.

aqua-beowulf · 10-09-2005, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Rev

Hi guys
My question is what exercises should i be doing to get a good platform to start from (does that make sence) :confused2
I'm out of rehab now and my physio has let me go so i can do anything i want now in terms of exercise

Should i focus on compound exercises??

My first goal is to lose fat and gain strength
Long term goal is to bulk :bigthumbu

It is my humble opinion, that most people could achieve a great physique with these five exercises.
Squats
Deadlifts
Clean & Presses
Dips
Pullups
It would definitely give someone an excellent base.

**SDFlipStyle** · 10-09-2005, 02:44 PM

i'd even cut it further and go with just dip, squats, and pullups.

aqua-beowulf · 10-09-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDFlipStyle

i'd even cut it further and go with just dip, squats, and pullups.

Yeah, if I had to pick three, that would probably be them.

ZackMurphy · 10-09-2005, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aqua-beowulf

It is my humble opinion, that most people could achieve a great physique with these five exercises.
Squats
Deadlifts
Clean & Presses
Dips
Pullups
It would definitely give someone an excellent base.

I argee, but if you're doing C & P, you can lose the deads. Deads are a personal favorite, but if your goal is simplicity....

The other two guys saying just dips, pull ups and squats - what about shoulders? Nothing for heavy pressing? The C & P would get you there. And it's even a nice 2-day split.

Day 1:
Squats
pull ups

Day 2:
C & P
Dips

IMHO.

We could debate this for decades....

Just_Shruggin · 10-09-2005, 03:53 PM

From time to time, i cut out all isolation movements and just stick with compounds to keep it simple:

Dips
Deads,
Pull ups
Dumbell Overhead presses
Squats
Reverse Grip Barbell Rows or Dumbell Rows on an incline bench

If you can get your hands on a cambered bar, nothing beats chest supported bb rows on a bench.

-Shruggin

aqua-beowulf · 10-09-2005, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZackMurphy

I argee, but if you're doing C & P, you can lose the deads. Deads are a personal favorite, but if your goal is simplicity....

The other two guys saying just dips, pull ups and squats - what about shoulders? Nothing for heavy pressing? The C & P would get you there. And it's even a nice 2-day split.

Day 1:
Squats
pull ups

Day 2:
C & P
Dips

IMHO.

We could debate this for decades....

Let's just say, hypothetically, that a person decided to try that kind of training approach... because I've been giving it some serious thought here lately... just to shake things up a bit. How much volume and frequency should a person do? I'm thinking on Day 1 I'd do maybe 6 sets of squats (3 front and 3 back) and 6 sets of weighted pullups (varying between chins, pullups, and hammer grip styles)... and then on Day 2 I'd do 6 sets of C & P, and 6 sets weighted dips. Then take 2 days rest, and repeat the cycle. What do you think? I seem to respond well to low volume high frequency training.

W8isGR8 · 10-09-2005, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aqua-beowulf

Let's just say, hypothetically, that a person decided to try that kind of training approach... because I've been giving it some serious thought here lately... just to shake things up a bit. How much volume and frequency should a person do? I'm thinking on Day 1 I'd do maybe 6 sets of squats (3 front and 3 back) and 6 sets of weighted pullups (varying between chins, pullups, and hammer grip styles)... and then on Day 2 I'd do 6 sets of C & P, and 6 sets weighted dips. Then take 2 days rest, and repeat the cycle. What do you think? I seem to respond well to low volume high frequency training.

Hi aqua

Just_Shruggin · 10-09-2005, 10:47 PM

what up w8

-Shruggin

ZackMurphy · 10-09-2005, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aqua-beowulf

Let's just say, hypothetically, that a person decided to try that kind of training approach... because I've been giving it some serious thought here lately... just to shake things up a bit. How much volume and frequency should a person do? I'm thinking on Day 1 I'd do maybe 6 sets of squats (3 front and 3 back) and 6 sets of weighted pullups (varying between chins, pullups, and hammer grip styles)... and then on Day 2 I'd do 6 sets of C & P, and 6 sets weighted dips. Then take 2 days rest, and repeat the cycle. What do you think? I seem to respond well to low volume high frequency training.

I'll tell you what - I think for a person to make that kind of split work, assuming you really ARE tailored to a "low volume high frequency" program, I think your focus should be on achieving the proper intensity. We take this far too much for granted. But intensity is so, so essential, and it's where I see most people shooting temselves in the foot (feet?).

So to actually answer, what is your true goal? Size? Strength? Speed/Agility? Sports Conditioning? A hybrid? What % of each?

aqua-beowulf · 10-09-2005, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZackMurphy

I'll tell you what - I think for a person to make that kind of split work, assuming you really ARE tailored to a "low volume high frequency" program, I think your focus should be on achieving the proper intensity. We take this far too much for granted. But intensity is so, so essential, and it's where I see most people shooting temselves in the foot (feet?).

So to actually answer, what is your true goal? Size? Strength? Speed/Agility? Sports Conditioning? A hybrid? What % of each?

Are you speaking of intensity as in % of one rep maximum... or in the sense of effort? I used to be a stat chaser, and I thought that weight used was the be all and end all to bodybuilding. Luckily I learned better. At this point... I'm strictly training for size. I generally focus on manipulating the TUT, keeping sessions short, working each bodypart twice per week (but for only like 8-10 sets per bodypart)... and I'm seeing excellent gains... much better than with low volume, or 20 set workouts. I don't know if I would actually change anything at the moment, but I'm always open to new ideas. We don't have to really turn this topic towards me... although that's fine, and it may also help the original poster determine his course of action

ZackMurphy · 10-10-2005, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aqua-beowulf

Are you speaking of intensity as in % of one rep maximum... or in the sense of effort? I used to be a stat chaser, and I thought that weight used was the be all and end all to bodybuilding. Luckily I learned better. At this point... I'm strictly training for size. I generally focus on manipulating the TUT, keeping sessions short, working each bodypart twice per week (but for only like 8-10 sets per bodypart)... and I'm seeing excellent gains... much better than with low volume, or 20 set workouts. I don't know if I would actually change anything at the moment, but I'm always open to new ideas. We don't have to really turn this topic towards me... although that's fine, and it may also help the original poster determine his course of action

I was going to say we should start a thread just for you, but I agree it might help the original guy, too.

"Intensity" to me here is the % of your maximum effort you're giving with whatever resistance you're using. It might be only 60% of your 1RM, but are you hitting the maximum # of reps with that weight? That's 100% intensity. And that's where people screw up. They hit rep # 9 and think "I can do 3 more", so they do just 3 more, where they really had 7 more reps in them if they really bore down and focused. The difference between doing 12 and 16 is massive.

Generally, it's much harder to hit 100% intensity with weight that approaches your 1RM. Each extra rep requires a proportionally greater amount of exertion, and getting close to 100 with near-max weight becomes dicey. Anywho....

So for you, if you were doing that simplified plan we were bouncing around, I would keep resistance between 70 and 80% of your 1RM, but keep the sets and rests short, and use a higher # of sets to help force 100% intensity.

So if you're doing.... whatever - push presses, on which you have a 1RM of 135#, I might do sets of 5 with 95#, explosive concentrics, with slow negatives, and good form. With set rests of ~30 seconds, you'll be pretty wasted in no time. And by the 5th or 6th set, 95# will feel like 195#. And 30 seconds is nothing, compared to most guys I see. I time guys in my gym sometimes. They average 75 seconds between sets, but they'd guess more like 45.

I've also had luck with guys like you supersetting oly lifts. Same set and rep structures, but supersetting, like, high pulls and back squats, or hang power cleans and front squats, or push presses and front squats. Supersetting with minimum rest - just enough to change the plates.

aqua-beowulf · 10-10-2005, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W8isGR8

Hi aqua

Hey W8!

aqua-beowulf · 10-10-2005, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZackMurphy

I was going to say we should start a thread just for you, but I agree it might help the original guy, too.

"Intensity" to me here is the % of your maximum effort you're giving with whatever resistance you're using. It might be only 60% of your 1RM, but are you hitting the maximum # of reps with that weight? That's 100% intensity. And that's where people screw up. They hit rep # 9 and think "I can do 3 more", so they do just 3 more, where they really had 7 more reps in them if they really bore down and focused. The difference between doing 12 and 16 is massive.

I was thinking of intensity as effort in this situation as well. Let me be sure I understand you though... are you recommending training to total failure... or just pushing through mental barriers? Take 20 rep squats for example... where you take a weight you would normally do 10 reps with, and utilizing rest pause... along with deep breathing, knock out 20 reps... that is in effect 100% intensity in my book... when you redefine your own physical and mental limits. I generally try and avoid total muscular failure, but instead like to end a set when I have completed as many reps as I can without a spotter... because I don't use one.

Quote:

Generally, it's much harder to hit 100% intensity with weight that approaches your 1RM. Each extra rep requires a proportionally greater amount of exertion, and getting close to 100 with near-max weight becomes dicey. Anywho....

I agree totally.

Quote:

So for you, if you were doing that simplified plan we were bouncing around, I would keep resistance between 70 and 80% of your 1RM, but keep the sets and rests short, and use a higher # of sets to help force 100% intensity.

So if you're doing.... whatever - push presses, on which you have a 1RM of 135#, I might do sets of 5 with 95#, explosive concentrics, with slow negatives, and good form. With set rests of ~30 seconds, you'll be pretty wasted in no time. And by the 5th or 6th set, 95# will feel like 195#. And 30 seconds is nothing, compared to most guys I see. I time guys in my gym sometimes. They average 75 seconds between sets, but they'd guess more like 45.

I've also had luck with guys like you supersetting oly lifts. Same set and rep structures, but supersetting, like, high pulls and back squats, or hang power cleans and front squats, or push presses and front squats. Supersetting with minimum rest - just enough to change the plates.

Wow, that would be intense... okay, I'll keep that in mind if I decide to try something like that. I appreciate your input. Believe me, I know there is no magical answer for the right amount of reps/sets/volume/frequency/rest that will fit everyone... so I hope you don't think I was asking for that. I was just curious about what you would do in the given situation.

ZackMurphy · 10-10-2005, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aqua-beowulf

I was thinking of intensity as effort in this situation as well. Let me be sure I understand you though... are you recommending training to total failure... or just pushing through mental barriers? Take 20 rep squats for example... that is in effect 100% intensity in my book... when you redefine your own physical and mental limits. I generally try and avoid total muscular failure, but instead like to end a set when I have completed as many reps as I can without a spotter... because I don't use one.

That's an interesting question. The 20-rep squat example is a good one. 20-rep squats, though, do something different. They take your rep max with the weight, and let it slide slightly higher during the set by utilizing the active rest. So if I can 10RM 225#, but now I add 5-8 seconds of rest after reps 8, 12, 14, 16, 17, and 19, I gradually add reps to my 225# max. So it's a bit of a cheat. And since you're a guy who appreciates TUT, you understand why a 20-rep squat set is both awesome, and a little deceiving.

I don't see intensity as redefining your own mental limits, but more as the proper recognition of what your mental limits actually are.

After I posted to you earlier, I was thinking about in a Cutler DVD, he admits to rarely counting his reps. When I first watched this, it hit me as reckless, lazy, and ignorant. For a seasoned pro who makes his living that way - to ignore a chance to track himself and to push.

But then I was thinking this morning, while Cutler chooses to not count reps because he really IS lazy and ignorant, it probably actually works to his advantage, in that he's never hindered by the number he's on. His brain never counts rep #9 and says "I should be tired by now - I'm going to stop soon". You know? That's the trick. Getting to the rep that really IS your last good rep, instead of just the last good rep your brain will give you.

So yes, pushing mental limits is a good phrase, I guess. When you're working without a spotter (as I do 99% of the time), though, I'll bet you could probably squeeze out another rep or two pretty frequently.

I know I can, and I often screw that up myself.

10-05-2005, 08:14 AM	#1
Big Rev New Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 9 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	What exercises to build a good platform Hi guys My question is what exercises should i be doing to get a good platform to start from (does that make sence) :confused2 I'm out of rehab now and my physio has let me go so i can do anything i want now in terms of exercise Should i focus on compound exercises?? My first goal is to lose fat and gain strength Long term goal is to bulk :bigthumbu __________________ :rock: ----------------------------------- The journey of fat loss has begun :fruity: :fruity: Started 245lbs Was 214lbs Current 212lbs

10-06-2005, 12:56 PM	#4
Big Rev New Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 9 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	cheers peaked i'm doing these in my workouts now so i'm on the right track __________________ :rock: ----------------------------------- The journey of fat loss has begun :fruity: :fruity: Started 245lbs Was 214lbs Current 212lbs

10-07-2005, 12:31 PM	#6
Ihateeveryone Pro Stature Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Castle of Blakkheim Posts: 752 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 11	Add pullups and a rowing movement for the back, stiff leg deads for the hams and lower back, and alternate between the close grip bench and dips for the tris. __________________ Bullshit things: Hippies Astrology Rap music Nu metal Leg presses Communism Nitric Oxide Left wing politics Decaf coffee Fortune cookies Cutting Prudes Wine coolers Non materialism F**k marijuana - legalise steroids!! Bart: Ohhh, this place smells, and somethings dripping on me! Willie: The smell's manure, and the drippin's manure!

10-09-2005, 03:53 PM	#11
Just_Shruggin Amateur Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 68 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	From time to time, i cut out all isolation movements and just stick with compounds to keep it simple: Dips Deads, Pull ups Dumbell Overhead presses Squats Reverse Grip Barbell Rows or Dumbell Rows on an incline bench If you can get your hands on a cambered bar, nothing beats chest supported bb rows on a bench. -Shruggin __________________ Balls to the Wall: Shruggin's New Journal http://ironmass.com/forums/showthrea...857#post142857

10-09-2005, 10:47 PM	#14
Just_Shruggin Amateur Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 68 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	what up w8 -Shruggin __________________ Balls to the Wall: Shruggin's New Journal http://ironmass.com/forums/showthrea...857#post142857

10-05-2005, 03:59 PM	#2
Peaked_18 a la commode Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,247 Recipes: 2 Rep Power: 96	The simple basics. 1 Exercise for each muscle group doing a full-body workout three times a week monday/wednesday/friday. Chest: Bench Press or Incline Press Back: Deadlifts Quadriceps: Squats Hamstrings: Leg Curls Deltoids: Dumbbell Shoulder Press Biceps: Barbell Curls Triceps: Close-Grip Press Abs: Crunches Calves: Calf Raises Forearms: Wrist Curls, Reverse Wrist Curls Rep Ranges: 3-4 sets 6-10 reps Rep Ranges: 5 sets 25 reps Rep Ranges: 3 sets 30 reps Something simple, another thing you should do to build a base is a good diet plan.

10-05-2005, 04:00 PM	#3
Peaked_18 a la commode Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,247 Recipes: 2 Rep Power: 96	You should also switch those exercises every 2-3 weeks for back, chest, legs, etc. Add more variety, plus need a width exercise for back like pull ups or lat pulldowns.

10-09-2005, 02:44 PM	#8
SDFlipStyle Silver Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: RAF Lakenheath, England Posts: 52 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	i'd even cut it further and go with just dip, squats, and pullups.