SQUATS

Sickness666 · 02-07-2008, 09:22 PM

I hate doin squats, just for the fact that i have bad knees from playin football so everytime i do my squats my knees start to kill me....so i was wonderin if there is another exercise i can do that would basically give me the same results

thanks

**Succio** · 02-07-2008, 09:33 PM

are you sure its not your form?

**Ikaika** · 02-07-2008, 10:18 PM

I know how that is man, my left knee has had a bunch of tendinitis issues this last year or so and haven't been able to train heavy the way I'd like. I make sure I warm up really well, stretch a ton, and ice after my leg sessions. Things have been much improved and I'm able to train legs with high intensity even if I'm not squatting a ton of weight.

**bigDman** · 02-07-2008, 11:14 PM

and make sure your form is right
http://www.t-nation.com/article/supp...ead_to_toe&cr=
TESTOSTERONE NATION - Squat 900 Pounds

Drew1200 · 02-08-2008, 02:14 AM

ya properly warming up your legs beforehand can go a long ways in not making squats so painful for most people.

IMO nothing really hits everything the way squats do, but heavy leg presses, lunges, & front squats can do a decent job.

**bubba g** · 02-08-2008, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sickness666

I hate doin squats, just for the fact that i have bad knees from playin football so everytime i do my squats my knees start to kill me....so i was wonderin if there is another exercise i can do that would basically give me the same results

thanks

As was already said check your form. If that isn't the problem try using knee wraps.

danman77220 · 02-08-2008, 05:23 AM

Take lots of fish oil to help with the joints. I hear Biotest Flamout is really good.

Like everyone said, warm up a lot and check form. ATG squats are actually better for your knees because when you squat that deep, your legs themselves reverse the movement, not the knees.

**powerman2000** · 02-08-2008, 02:36 PM

You should investigate getting some customized arch supports to put in your shoes.

A lack of arch support can screw up your knees and your back.

Trust me.

**bigDman** · 02-08-2008, 11:47 PM

Dislike #2: People who say they can't squat because they have bad knees

This is more lame crap from those who can't squat or don't want to. All knee rehab now centers around squats or something that looks like a squat. Anyone who tells you they can't squat because they have bad knees is more than likely full of crap.

What they're really saying is, "I was never a good squatter. I always did them wrong and, as a result, my knees hurt." I even get doctors who say things like, " No more squats, just lunges." Sorry, how is a lunge different than a squat? Knee range of motion is knee range of motion.

Is there really any evidence that squats ever were bad for your knees? Nope, none that I've ever seen. There's actually more evidence for increased patella-femoral compression from leg extensions than there is for dangers of squatting.

If this "squats are bad" stuff isn't true, where did all this start? The "squats are bad for your knees" crap started with a 1969 book called The Knee in Sports by Karl Klein and Fred Allman. Many squat critics say this book contains strong evidence for squats damaging the knee joint. You know why they think this? Because they never read the book! Well, I have an original copy of it right here beside me and here's what it says:

"If squat type exercises are to be used, the weight should be kept in front. Even though it may not be possible to use as much weight, the exercise is safer and puts much less strain on the back."

What wisdom! Where have I heard that before? The authors continue:

"The depth in the squat should be controlled, with the thighs just breaking the parallel position."

The accompanying photo in the text shows a nice powerlifting depth squat. They conclude:

"Much beyond this point, the reaction between the hamstrings and calf muscle begins to act as a pry to force the joint apart... stretching the ligaments."

In other words, Dr. Klein and Mr. Allman recommended full squats, but didn't advocate breaking parallel. What Klein and Allman cautioned against were what they described as "deep squats." Deep squats were squats below parallel as might be seen in the catch portion of the clean and jerk or snatch in Olympic lifting.

As my man Alwyn Cosgrove always says, this produced a massive overreaction. Those who didn't take the time to read the book or even look at the pictures went on to badmouth squatting, saying it was dangerous and bad for the knees. One old rumor says that some gyms actually went so far as to ban full squats!

The bottom line, although some will disagree, is that there's no evidence that a powerlifting-depth full squat is bad for the knees, but there's some evidence that squatting below parallel (what many like to describe as ATG or "ass to grass") could be harmful to the collateral ligaments or to the posterior horn of the meniscus.

Does this matter? Very little. Most people never approach the knee danger zone in depth anyway. With my athletes I'm more concerned with lumbar stress than with knee stress.

By the way, I also dislike knee wraps. If you come to visit me, please leave your gloves and wraps in the bag. Knee wraps aren't a knee injury prevention device; they're an elastic aid to move more weight. In addition, they magnify the fulcrum effect that Klein and Allman describe.

from some genius named mike boyle

**Ikaika** · 02-09-2008, 01:49 AM

Leg extensions and hack squats are both pretty terrible for your knees aren't they?

**bubba g** · 02-09-2008, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ikaika

Leg extensions and hack squats are both pretty terrible for your knees aren't they?

Not if they are done properly. The problem is most people don't do them properly.

**Ikaika** · 02-09-2008, 10:55 AM

I must be one of them; hack squats kill my knees.

**bigDman** · 02-09-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ikaika

Leg extensions and hack squats are both pretty terrible for your knees aren't they?

yea. I mean you can do them but for high reps with low weight

**romanaz** · 02-09-2008, 02:05 PM

someone isn't going low enough.

**DJSTARER** · 02-10-2008, 04:47 PM

no comment on this thread

**powerman2000** · 02-11-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ikaika

I must be one of them; hack squats kill my knees.

Leg extensions bother me more than anything else.

Hacks aren't any worse for me than regular squats.

The first time I used arch supports in my shoes during squats I saw an immediate improvement in strength.

Yes, I have pretty high foot arches.

**davtown** · 02-12-2008, 03:32 PM

funny enough... I used to have knee pain, then I started squatting. After I gained strength in the squat, my knees stopped hurting. I haven't been able to squat for 1+ month due to a bruised tailbone, and now my knees are giving me little hints of pain every so often...

02-07-2008, 09:22 PM	#1
Sickness666 New Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: PITTSBURGH Posts: 2 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	SQUATS I hate doin squats, just for the fact that i have bad knees from playin football so everytime i do my squats my knees start to kill me....so i was wonderin if there is another exercise i can do that would basically give me the same results thanks __________________ ITS MAN FOREVER TESTING HIMSELF - AGAINST OTHER MEN, AGAINST HIS OWN PAIN AND HIS OWN FEARS

02-07-2008, 10:18 PM	#3
Ikaika shippin dem stacks Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 3,650 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 207	Re: SQUATS I know how that is man, my left knee has had a bunch of tendinitis issues this last year or so and haven't been able to train heavy the way I'd like. I make sure I warm up really well, stretch a ton, and ice after my leg sessions. Things have been much improved and I'm able to train legs with high intensity even if I'm not squatting a ton of weight. __________________ No supplement can make up for the lack of a strong work ethic.

02-07-2008, 11:14 PM	#4
bigDman is missing heavy pulls Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 4,562 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 182	Re: SQUATS and make sure your form is right http://www.t-nation.com/article/supp...ead_to_toe&cr= TESTOSTERONE NATION - Squat 900 Pounds __________________ COME CHECK OUT MY JOURNAL

02-08-2008, 02:14 AM	#5
Drew1200 Perma-Bulk to 280 Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 778 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 71	Re: SQUATS ya properly warming up your legs beforehand can go a long ways in not making squats so painful for most people. IMO nothing really hits everything the way squats do, but heavy leg presses, lunges, & front squats can do a decent job.

02-08-2008, 05:23 AM	#7
danman77220 Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,011 Recipes: 1 Rep Power: 50	Re: SQUATS Take lots of fish oil to help with the joints. I hear Biotest Flamout is really good. Like everyone said, warm up a lot and check form. ATG squats are actually better for your knees because when you squat that deep, your legs themselves reverse the movement, not the knees. __________________ Accomplishment tastes better than cheesecake. Stats(/goals): Age: 18 Weight: 193 BF%: 19%/8% Max Lifts B: 240 S: 315+ D: 305+ Goals for graduation B: 275 S: 365 D: 365 Pullups: BW+25x5 Status: Becoming a beast My Training Log

02-07-2008, 09:33 PM	#2
Succio IronMass Sponsor Join Date: May 2006 Location: beastville Posts: 1,927 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 92	Re: SQUATS are you sure its not your form? __________________ SUPPLEMENTS.NET REP

02-08-2008, 02:36 PM	#8
powerman2000 The Old Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,246 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 198	Re: SQUATS You should investigate getting some customized arch supports to put in your shoes. A lack of arch support can screw up your knees and your back. Trust me. __________________ Don't forget to periodize Best BP 507 lbs competitive Best Squat 705 lbs competitive Best DL 650 lbs competitive Guns don't kill people, men who come home early do. My workout log http://www.ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6247

02-08-2008, 11:47 PM	#9
bigDman is missing heavy pulls Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 4,562 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 182	Re: SQUATS Dislike #2: People who say they can't squat because they have bad knees This is more lame crap from those who can't squat or don't want to. All knee rehab now centers around squats or something that looks like a squat. Anyone who tells you they can't squat because they have bad knees is more than likely full of crap. What they're really saying is, "I was never a good squatter. I always did them wrong and, as a result, my knees hurt." I even get doctors who say things like, " No more squats, just lunges." Sorry, how is a lunge different than a squat? Knee range of motion is knee range of motion. Is there really any evidence that squats ever were bad for your knees? Nope, none that I've ever seen. There's actually more evidence for increased patella-femoral compression from leg extensions than there is for dangers of squatting. If this "squats are bad" stuff isn't true, where did all this start? The "squats are bad for your knees" crap started with a 1969 book called The Knee in Sports by Karl Klein and Fred Allman. Many squat critics say this book contains strong evidence for squats damaging the knee joint. You know why they think this? Because they never read the book! Well, I have an original copy of it right here beside me and here's what it says: "If squat type exercises are to be used, the weight should be kept in front. Even though it may not be possible to use as much weight, the exercise is safer and puts much less strain on the back." What wisdom! Where have I heard that before? The authors continue: "The depth in the squat should be controlled, with the thighs just breaking the parallel position." The accompanying photo in the text shows a nice powerlifting depth squat. They conclude: "Much beyond this point, the reaction between the hamstrings and calf muscle begins to act as a pry to force the joint apart... stretching the ligaments." In other words, Dr. Klein and Mr. Allman recommended full squats, but didn't advocate breaking parallel. What Klein and Allman cautioned against were what they described as "deep squats." Deep squats were squats below parallel as might be seen in the catch portion of the clean and jerk or snatch in Olympic lifting. As my man Alwyn Cosgrove always says, this produced a massive overreaction. Those who didn't take the time to read the book or even look at the pictures went on to badmouth squatting, saying it was dangerous and bad for the knees. One old rumor says that some gyms actually went so far as to ban full squats! The bottom line, although some will disagree, is that there's no evidence that a powerlifting-depth full squat is bad for the knees, but there's some evidence that squatting below parallel (what many like to describe as ATG or "ass to grass") could be harmful to the collateral ligaments or to the posterior horn of the meniscus. Does this matter? Very little. Most people never approach the knee danger zone in depth anyway. With my athletes I'm more concerned with lumbar stress than with knee stress. By the way, I also dislike knee wraps. If you come to visit me, please leave your gloves and wraps in the bag. Knee wraps aren't a knee injury prevention device; they're an elastic aid to move more weight. In addition, they magnify the fulcrum effect that Klein and Allman describe. from some genius named mike boyle __________________ COME CHECK OUT MY JOURNAL

02-09-2008, 01:49 AM	#10
Ikaika shippin dem stacks Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 3,650 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 207	Re: SQUATS Leg extensions and hack squats are both pretty terrible for your knees aren't they? __________________ No supplement can make up for the lack of a strong work ethic.

02-09-2008, 10:55 AM	#12
Ikaika shippin dem stacks Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 3,650 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 207	Re: SQUATS I must be one of them; hack squats kill my knees. __________________ No supplement can make up for the lack of a strong work ethic.

02-10-2008, 04:47 PM	#15
DJSTARER Writing Staff Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 3,912 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 109	Re: SQUATS no comment on this thread __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: Total 1400 in competition

02-12-2008, 03:32 PM	#17
davtown OM NOM NOM NOM Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 2,278 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 127	Re: SQUATS funny enough... I used to have knee pain, then I started squatting. After I gained strength in the squat, my knees stopped hurting. I haven't been able to squat for 1+ month due to a bruised tailbone, and now my knees are giving me little hints of pain every so often... __________________ **MY TRAINING LOG** current/goal D: 330/380 S: 270/300 B: 235/260