Leg Extensions?Necessary for gains?

strongman72 · 01-02-2006, 02:42 AM

Are leg extensions really necessary for strength gains?I don't mind doing them but if they don't help a whole lot I don't want to do them.How important are they for strength gains?

**BobThePotato** · 01-02-2006, 03:46 AM

just drop them. your knees will thank you.

**Peaked_18** · 01-02-2006, 03:47 AM

Substitute them for lunges, single-leg squats, and step-ups.

strongman72 · 01-02-2006, 04:49 AM

Yea it does bother my knees!!!I do step ups and lunges,so I dont need them then?

**A.FreeRadical** · 01-02-2006, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strongman72

Yea it does bother my knees!!!I do step ups and lunges,so I dont need them then?

Isolation exercises are best for refining muscles after you have built them. I find that if I don't fully extend my leg 100% (maybe 90-95% max extention) it doesn't bother my knees. Leg extentions aren't my favorites, but I think they are worth doing occassionally.

*

sulcop · 01-02-2006, 12:29 PM

First, lets ask if isolation exercises can produce growth? Yes, growth is produced from overload and nuromuscular fiber activation. All exercise, if conducted to a point of fiber activation will produce growth. Next question, are leg extensions a good option? No, I do not feel they are. The leg extension puts a lare shearing force on the knee (where did anyone get the idea the extension is good for the knees?) and there is far less fiber activation due to it being an isolation exercise. This is the problem with all isolation exercises, limited fiber activation = limited gains. I do no leg extensions at all in my training, pre contest or not. I have found the sissy squat to be FAR more productive as a leg training tool. In fact my normal precontest leg program is all squats. Three sets olympic squats 1 x 50, 2 X 6-8, two sets of belt squats 1 X 20, 1 X 10-15, two sets sissy squats max impact reps for to failure and a set of split squats for 1 1/4 reps. If I feel real good I add a set of smith squats with feet foreward going glute to calf (ALL THE WAY DOWN) but these need to be done with caution due to increase shearing force on the knee with the smith machine.

Sully

**Peaked_18** · 01-02-2006, 03:20 PM

I read through your training Sully, looks like a different approach. I take it your a 'powerbuilder?'

sulcop · 01-02-2006, 03:44 PM

It depends how you define powerbuilder. I train in a various rep ranges due to there impact on muscle fiber types and the endocrine system. I submitted and artice on hormonal minipulation training that I hope is accepted that will define the concept. I always include power movements and weightlifting movements, snatch, cleans, high pulls, push press and power lifting moves, box squats, rack work etc.. I train in the 2-4, 4-7, 10-12, 15-20 and 50-100 ranges but do 90% core movements. Best two gyms ever, Westside in OH and Vince's in CA. Vince's is long gone now, but it was sparse and you trained hard. Westside just makes you want to lift something heavy! By the way I love the strongman & powerlifting link!

Sully

**Peaked_18** · 01-02-2006, 03:54 PM

Awesome, I define a powerbuilder as a bodybuilder who lifts heavy. A physique guy trying to smash the weights in the gym time and time again. Not a fan high pulls due to injuries lead by it. Glad your into power lifting and strongman.

sulcop · 01-02-2006, 05:48 PM

Agreed on high pulls! I have a slight right delt problem I know was caused by them, but I just though it was me. I was actually a power lifter in the 80's and was on the USMC team. Also attempted weight lifting but got smashed at my only comp. My best lifts were in the 242's and at 5'5" I was not eye appealing so I went back to bodybuilding as a motivation to lose weight and have been stuck there for 15 years. This may be my last year of bodybuilding, and now over 40 I think I ould actually do well in powerlifting in the lighter weight classes. I am currently 177-180 and rep in squats in the mid 400's, deads in the low 500's but I have not benched in 15 years!

Sully

**Peaked_18** · 01-02-2006, 05:54 PM

Awesome, look at Louie Simmons, he was going to call it quits but later went back at it and squatted 1,000 lb.! Hopefully you will do well in power lifting, I am looking into doing some competitions.

**BigZeke** · 01-02-2006, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobThePotato

just drop them. your knees will thank you.

I have bad knees and I do leg extentions. I never go to lockout.

**BobThePotato** · 01-02-2006, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigZeke

I have bad knees and I do leg extentions. I never go to lockout.

after 2 going on 3 knee surgeries i would rather not risk it.

ZackMurphy · 01-02-2006, 11:45 PM

What's with the bevy of "is [insert exercise here] necessary for [strength/mass] gains" questions lately. Has weight or strength training suddenly become a short-term effort? Are we all in this for the glory normally afforded 100m sprinters and quarterbacks?

This whole thing takes time, people, and just about every exercise you can imagine deserves a place in your routine now and then, some more than others, and some more for certain goals, but they're all important, and serve some purpose.

Is any of them "necessary", in that they are required? Of course not.

But I train for strength, almost exclusively, and I find leg extensions to be of several uses:
* warm-ups on squat days
* for a finishing move when my other leg work has been hamstring-loaded
* and not every strength-training move needs to be heavy and compound. Some iso work is okay, and leg extensions, leg curls, abd/add work is fine. You can get strength gains from them.

You don't need them every time, but you shouldn't ignore them, either.

**A.FreeRadical** · 01-03-2006, 12:23 AM

Well said, Zack! Also some muscles are sticking points in an important compound movement exercise. No harm in hitting the lagging muscle with some isolation work. BigZeke, good to hear. I didn't think I was the only one that doesn't have knee problems from leg extentions. You are right, avoid the lockout. (It took me a little while to figure that out.)

*

SoMdHunter · 01-04-2006, 12:31 AM

Guess I'm weird, cause leg extensions seem to be easier on my knees than anything else. Example, 2 weeks ago I did leg presses at 450lbs (a PR for me) and my knees hurt for 4 days. (just above the knee cap, tendons maybe?) So I went back to leg extensions and they are now doing fine. Tomorrow is leg day, so I guess I'll give leg presses a try again and see what happens.

**DJSTARER** · 01-04-2006, 02:30 AM

I use leg extensions for warm up. 2 sets of 30, just to get my knees ready for my quad work sets. I do my work on the leg press for quads mainly.

RockyIV · 01-11-2006, 06:45 PM

Like DJSTARER, I use them to warm up my legs. 2 - 20 rep sets usually gets the blood flowing then off to the squat rack. I do think it's strange when people are really trying to go heavy on leg extensions.

01-02-2006, 02:42 AM	#1
strongman72 Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Corpus Christi, Texas Posts: 205 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 9	Leg Extensions?Necessary for gains? Are leg extensions really necessary for strength gains?I don't mind doing them but if they don't help a whole lot I don't want to do them.How important are they for strength gains? __________________ Runnin in 30 degree weather,rain -guy says to me "What they hell are you runnin in this for,you're crazy!" I laugh and say, "Na just dedicated!" 2006 POWERLIFTING REGIONAL QUALIFIER UPDATE Status-STILL WORKING TO GET TO THE TOP Age:17 Bench: 300 (315) Incline: 250 Squat: 445 (465) Power Clean: 225 (235) Deadlift: 500 Raw - Due to a torn quad injury it has gone down. () are goals that are to be done in 3 months.

01-02-2006, 03:46 AM	#2
BobThePotato Nublarsaurusrex Join Date: May 2005 Location: Calgary//Alberta Posts: 519 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 21	just drop them. your knees will thank you. __________________ "Geadelt ist wer Schmerzen kennt vom Feuer das in Lust verbrennt."

01-02-2006, 04:49 AM	#4
strongman72 Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Corpus Christi, Texas Posts: 205 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 9	Yea it does bother my knees!!!I do step ups and lunges,so I dont need them then? __________________ Runnin in 30 degree weather,rain -guy says to me "What they hell are you runnin in this for,you're crazy!" I laugh and say, "Na just dedicated!" 2006 POWERLIFTING REGIONAL QUALIFIER UPDATE Status-STILL WORKING TO GET TO THE TOP Age:17 Bench: 300 (315) Incline: 250 Squat: 445 (465) Power Clean: 225 (235) Deadlift: 500 Raw - Due to a torn quad injury it has gone down. () are goals that are to be done in 3 months.

01-02-2006, 12:29 PM	#6
sulcop Pro Stature Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cape Cod MA Posts: 155 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	First, lets ask if isolation exercises can produce growth? Yes, growth is produced from overload and nuromuscular fiber activation. All exercise, if conducted to a point of fiber activation will produce growth. Next question, are leg extensions a good option? No, I do not feel they are. The leg extension puts a lare shearing force on the knee (where did anyone get the idea the extension is good for the knees?) and there is far less fiber activation due to it being an isolation exercise. This is the problem with all isolation exercises, limited fiber activation = limited gains. I do no leg extensions at all in my training, pre contest or not. I have found the sissy squat to be FAR more productive as a leg training tool. In fact my normal precontest leg program is all squats. Three sets olympic squats 1 x 50, 2 X 6-8, two sets of belt squats 1 X 20, 1 X 10-15, two sets sissy squats max impact reps for to failure and a set of split squats for 1 1/4 reps. If I feel real good I add a set of smith squats with feet foreward going glute to calf (ALL THE WAY DOWN) but these need to be done with caution due to increase shearing force on the knee with the smith machine. Sully __________________ www.SOAbodybuilding.com

01-02-2006, 03:44 PM	#8
sulcop Pro Stature Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cape Cod MA Posts: 155 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	It depends how you define powerbuilder. I train in a various rep ranges due to there impact on muscle fiber types and the endocrine system. I submitted and artice on hormonal minipulation training that I hope is accepted that will define the concept. I always include power movements and weightlifting movements, snatch, cleans, high pulls, push press and power lifting moves, box squats, rack work etc.. I train in the 2-4, 4-7, 10-12, 15-20 and 50-100 ranges but do 90% core movements. Best two gyms ever, Westside in OH and Vince's in CA. Vince's is long gone now, but it was sparse and you trained hard. Westside just makes you want to lift something heavy! By the way I love the strongman & powerlifting link! Sully __________________ www.SOAbodybuilding.com

01-02-2006, 03:47 AM	#3
Peaked_18 a la commode Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,297 Recipes: 2 Rep Power: 96	Substitute them for lunges, single-leg squats, and step-ups.

01-02-2006, 03:20 PM	#7
Peaked_18 a la commode Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,297 Recipes: 2 Rep Power: 96	I read through your training Sully, looks like a different approach. I take it your a 'powerbuilder?'

01-02-2006, 03:54 PM	#9
Peaked_18 a la commode Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,297 Recipes: 2 Rep Power: 96	Awesome, I define a powerbuilder as a bodybuilder who lifts heavy. A physique guy trying to smash the weights in the gym time and time again. Not a fan high pulls due to injuries lead by it. Glad your into power lifting and strongman.

01-02-2006, 05:48 PM	#10
sulcop Pro Stature Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cape Cod MA Posts: 155 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	Agreed on high pulls! I have a slight right delt problem I know was caused by them, but I just though it was me. I was actually a power lifter in the 80's and was on the USMC team. Also attempted weight lifting but got smashed at my only comp. My best lifts were in the 242's and at 5'5" I was not eye appealing so I went back to bodybuilding as a motivation to lose weight and have been stuck there for 15 years. This may be my last year of bodybuilding, and now over 40 I think I ould actually do well in powerlifting in the lighter weight classes. I am currently 177-180 and rep in squats in the mid 400's, deads in the low 500's but I have not benched in 15 years! Sully __________________ www.SOAbodybuilding.com

01-02-2006, 05:54 PM	#11
Peaked_18 a la commode Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,297 Recipes: 2 Rep Power: 96	Awesome, look at Louie Simmons, he was going to call it quits but later went back at it and squatted 1,000 lb.! Hopefully you will do well in power lifting, I am looking into doing some competitions.

01-02-2006, 11:45 PM	#14
ZackMurphy IronMass Donator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Folsom, CA Posts: 559 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 9	What's with the bevy of "is [insert exercise here] necessary for [strength/mass] gains" questions lately. Has weight or strength training suddenly become a short-term effort? Are we all in this for the glory normally afforded 100m sprinters and quarterbacks? This whole thing takes time, people, and just about every exercise you can imagine deserves a place in your routine now and then, some more than others, and some more for certain goals, but they're all important, and serve some purpose. Is any of them "necessary", in that they are required? Of course not. But I train for strength, almost exclusively, and I find leg extensions to be of several uses: * warm-ups on squat days * for a finishing move when my other leg work has been hamstring-loaded * and not every strength-training move needs to be heavy and compound. Some iso work is okay, and leg extensions, leg curls, abd/add work is fine. You can get strength gains from them. You don't need them every time, but you shouldn't ignore them, either.

01-03-2006, 12:23 AM	#15
A.FreeRadical the Epicurean Bodybuilder Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,245 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 57	Well said, Zack! Also some muscles are sticking points in an important compound movement exercise. No harm in hitting the lagging muscle with some isolation work. BigZeke, good to hear. I didn't think I was the only one that doesn't have knee problems from leg extentions. You are right, avoid the lockout. (It took me a little while to figure that out.) * __________________ "Is it going to be the red pill or the blue pill, Neo? The red pill will answer the question 'What is the Matrix?' Choose carefully. Remember, all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more." Ron Paul for President, 2008 A.FreeRadical ...the Epicurean bodybuilder Height: 5'9", Age: 62, My last high on 2/1/2006 was 196 lbs. My last low on 8/08/2006 was 167.5 lbs. Cutting until I am lean Starting weight: 190 lbs. bodyfat: 19.7% November 27th: 183 lbs. bodyfat: 18.3% bodyfat Goal Weight: 176 lbs with no more than 10% bodyfat My recipe collection

01-04-2006, 12:31 AM	#16
SoMdHunter Pro Stature Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: In my treestand Posts: 383 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	Guess I'm weird, cause leg extensions seem to be easier on my knees than anything else. Example, 2 weeks ago I did leg presses at 450lbs (a PR for me) and my knees hurt for 4 days. (just above the knee cap, tendons maybe?) So I went back to leg extensions and they are now doing fine. Tomorrow is leg day, so I guess I'll give leg presses a try again and see what happens. __________________ Vegetarian - ancient Indian term for bad hunter.

01-04-2006, 02:30 AM	#17
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 3,983 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 113	I use leg extensions for warm up. 2 sets of 30, just to get my knees ready for my quad work sets. I do my work on the leg press for quads mainly. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

01-11-2006, 06:45 PM	#18
RockyIV Amateur Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 32 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	Like DJSTARER, I use them to warm up my legs. 2 - 20 rep sets usually gets the blood flowing then off to the squat rack. I do think it's strange when people are really trying to go heavy on leg extensions. __________________ "No, maybe I can't win, maybe the only thing I can do is just take everything he's got. But to beat me, he's gonna have to kill me, and to kill me, he's gonna have to have the heart to stand in front of me, and to do that, he's gotta be willing to die himself and I don't know if he's ready to do that. I don't know, I don't know."-Rocky Food Log: http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...l?Owner=Jtiger