Incorporating pushups into a PL routine...

XiLe Ultra · 05-04-2008, 06:17 AM

That probably sounds ridiculous, but would I be able to improve my pushups and still have gains in strength? The slow twitch fibers I believe, are very crappy on me...just did pushups to see where I was at, failed to get the 42nd rep at 197lbs, bench is around 215-220 at the moment. Late 06, my bench was 145lbs at a bodyweight of 170lbs and I was able to do 42 reps...

So these muscle fibers have not been affected with my weight training, in that case would training them not interfere with my weight training...so could I have strength, mass and endurance?

If so, then on a WSBB routine with a max effort and dynamic effort day, how could I add pushups in?

**bigDman** · 05-04-2008, 03:14 PM

do them as an RE exercise in replace of the DE day. Or you could do them after your ME exercise for like 2 sets to failure. Or at the end of either of your Upper days. Or you could do them in your warmup. Many choices

you can do them weighted with chains or a weighted vest. Or you can do blast strap/ring pushups if you have access.

XiLe Ultra · 05-04-2008, 06:37 PM

2 sets of failure after ME sounds pretty good, thanks BigD!

**davtown** · 05-04-2008, 08:40 PM

I like doing random sets of 10 throughout the day..... some days I'll do maybe 3 sets, other days I'll do as many 8-10. Every so often I'll do a set of 15, or if I'm feeling up to it, 20. Since the sets are so far away from failure, it doesn't seem to affect my recovery much. When I first started doing this a couple of years ago, my max push-ups went from ~35 to 100 over the course of a few months.

In my experience, as long as you're not going to failure, or even getting close to it (I'll stop a set if I start feeling the slightest bit of fatigue), then it's going to be very hard to overtrain yourself with just bodyweight pushups. I just make sure the volume is lower (3-5 sets of 10) on the days before I train chest or shoulders.

**DJSTARER** · 05-04-2008, 09:39 PM

pushups have ALWAYS been a part of my westside-type template. They are great on both ME days for volume (sets of 12 with plates on your back) and as BigD mentioned, on RE days as well. IMO, I keep my RE days with a lot of higher volume barbell work. I'd put pushups as a accessory move on my ME days before I'd make it a supplementary move on my RE days.

XiLe Ultra · 05-04-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davtown

I like doing random sets of 10 throughout the day..... some days I'll do maybe 3 sets, other days I'll do as many 8-10. Every so often I'll do a set of 15, or if I'm feeling up to it, 20. Since the sets are so far away from failure, it doesn't seem to affect my recovery much. When I first started doing this a couple of years ago, my max push-ups went from ~35 to 100 over the course of a few months.

In my experience, as long as you're not going to failure, or even getting close to it (I'll stop a set if I start feeling the slightest bit of fatigue), then it's going to be very hard to overtrain yourself with just bodyweight pushups. I just make sure the volume is lower (3-5 sets of 10) on the days before I train chest or shoulders.

So you still got a lot better at pushups doing only 10 reps? I was wondering if it would be ok to do sets of 20-35...because if I'm only doing 10 reps am I really targetting the right fibers? Because my first 10 reps, I don't even feel it, because that is the range where I've trained my lifting, it feels so light, I hit 30 and it still feels light...but suddenly the muscles start to fatigue rapidly.

How does 3x20 sound, then increasing to 4x20 the next week and so on, adding volume...
or adding reps, 3x20 then 3x25 the next week and so on.

Or do you think 20 reps is too much?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJSTARER

pushups have ALWAYS been a part of my westside-type template. They are great on both ME days for volume (sets of 12 with plates on your back) and as BigD mentioned, on RE days as well. IMO, I keep my RE days with a lot of higher volume barbell work. I'd put pushups as a accessory move on my ME days before I'd make it a supplementary move on my RE days.

Sounds good, is RE in a different WSBB template? It's not the same as DE is it? Repitition Effort? I should do it on the day where I can get more reps rather than add weights on the back.

**davtown** · 05-04-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XiLe Ultra

So you still got a lot better at pushups doing only 10 reps? I was wondering if it would be ok to do sets of 20-35...because if I'm only doing 10 reps am I really targetting the right fibers? Because my first 10 reps, I don't even feel it, because that is the range where I've trained my lifting, it feels so light, I hit 30 and it still feels light...but suddenly the muscles start to fatigue rapidly.

How does 3x20 sound, then increasing to 4x20 the next week and so on, adding volume...
or adding reps, 3x20 then 3x25 the next week and so on.

Or do you think 20 reps is too much?

I did get much better at push-ups by doing this..... and I don't have any science or reasoning behind it.... I suppose it was just because of the volume that accumulated over time.

I don't think 20 reps is too much at all.... as long as you aren't getting fatigued by it. The sets I do are really spaced out, for example, 1 in the morning when I get out of bed, 1 sometime in the afternoon, and 1 before I go to bed. Doing such sub-maximal sets with so much time in between sets, I don't know how it would interfere with my weight training.

I don't necessarily know why it worked for me.... I just know that it did. Your mileage may vary.

XiLe Ultra · 05-05-2008, 12:09 AM

Thanks Dav, that sounds similar to a routine I did before I was into lifting, every other day you'd do sets throughout the day, and the other days you'd do them all in one workout. I'll figure a way to work with it, doing them both ways, maybe even twice a week.

**davtown** · 05-05-2008, 01:09 AM

yeah, this is a pretty much daily thing for me.... done 100 pushups today (6 sets - 10, 10, 15, 15, 25, 25), probably do another 30-40 before the night is done.

**DJSTARER** · 05-05-2008, 04:08 AM

yes. RE is different than DE.

05-04-2008, 06:17 AM	#1
XiLe Ultra Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Aurora, IL Posts: 2,376 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 183	Incorporating pushups into a PL routine... That probably sounds ridiculous, but would I be able to improve my pushups and still have gains in strength? The slow twitch fibers I believe, are very crappy on me...just did pushups to see where I was at, failed to get the 42nd rep at 197lbs, bench is around 215-220 at the moment. Late 06, my bench was 145lbs at a bodyweight of 170lbs and I was able to do 42 reps... So these muscle fibers have not been affected with my weight training, in that case would training them not interfere with my weight training...so could I have strength, mass and endurance? If so, then on a WSBB routine with a max effort and dynamic effort day, how could I add pushups in? __________________ ISSA Certified Personal Trainer in IL Deadlift: 405 Bench: ?? Squat: ?? MP #17 (no G & N)

05-04-2008, 06:37 PM	#3
XiLe Ultra Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Aurora, IL Posts: 2,376 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 183	Re: Incorporating pushups into a PL routine... 2 sets of failure after ME sounds pretty good, thanks BigD! __________________ ISSA Certified Personal Trainer in IL Deadlift: 405 Bench: ?? Squat: ?? MP #17 (no G & N)

05-04-2008, 08:40 PM	#4
davtown OM NOM NOM NOM Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 2,360 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 128	Re: Incorporating pushups into a PL routine... I like doing random sets of 10 throughout the day..... some days I'll do maybe 3 sets, other days I'll do as many 8-10. Every so often I'll do a set of 15, or if I'm feeling up to it, 20. Since the sets are so far away from failure, it doesn't seem to affect my recovery much. When I first started doing this a couple of years ago, my max push-ups went from ~35 to 100 over the course of a few months. In my experience, as long as you're not going to failure, or even getting close to it (I'll stop a set if I start feeling the slightest bit of fatigue), then it's going to be very hard to overtrain yourself with just bodyweight pushups. I just make sure the volume is lower (3-5 sets of 10) on the days before I train chest or shoulders. __________________ --Training Journal-- current/goal D: 350/380 S: 280/300 B: 235/260

05-04-2008, 09:39 PM	#5
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,050 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 114	Re: Incorporating pushups into a PL routine... pushups have ALWAYS been a part of my westside-type template. They are great on both ME days for volume (sets of 12 with plates on your back) and as BigD mentioned, on RE days as well. IMO, I keep my RE days with a lot of higher volume barbell work. I'd put pushups as a accessory move on my ME days before I'd make it a supplementary move on my RE days. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

05-05-2008, 12:09 AM	#8
XiLe Ultra Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Aurora, IL Posts: 2,376 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 183	Re: Incorporating pushups into a PL routine... Thanks Dav, that sounds similar to a routine I did before I was into lifting, every other day you'd do sets throughout the day, and the other days you'd do them all in one workout. I'll figure a way to work with it, doing them both ways, maybe even twice a week. __________________ ISSA Certified Personal Trainer in IL Deadlift: 405 Bench: ?? Squat: ?? MP #17 (no G & N)

05-05-2008, 01:09 AM	#9
davtown OM NOM NOM NOM Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 2,360 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 128	Re: Incorporating pushups into a PL routine... yeah, this is a pretty much daily thing for me.... done 100 pushups today (6 sets - 10, 10, 15, 15, 25, 25), probably do another 30-40 before the night is done. __________________ --Training Journal-- current/goal D: 350/380 S: 280/300 B: 235/260

05-05-2008, 04:08 AM	#10
DJSTARER eating more folate... Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 4,050 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 114	Re: Incorporating pushups into a PL routine... yes. RE is different than DE. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: 500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

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