is chest flys necessary?

Gsus · 12-20-2005, 04:01 PM

is chest flys necessary incline flat?

**schroeder** · 12-20-2005, 05:23 PM

what does your normal chest routine look like?

LaggingBiceps · 12-20-2005, 07:09 PM

if you want them add them, but i personally dont do them...only for warm ups because i get a better stretch than doing presses for warming up

ZackMurphy · 12-20-2005, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gsus

is chest flys necessary incline flat?

Nothing is necessary, but are they a good exercise and part of a good, balanced regimen? Sure.

Do flyes for a while. Then don't do them for a while. Then add them again.

Maniak1027 · 12-20-2005, 08:55 PM

Well like Zack said, nothing is necassary, but it's like saying squats or leg presses are not necessary, you can grow you legs without them, but the results are nothing compared if you had incoporated them. Myself I notice i do not get that soar if I do not do flyes, especially DB flyes (as opposed to cable crossovers). I have a variation of flyes that I call Maniak Flyes, they are a killer! What you do is you do your regular set of flyes to failure for whatever rep range you go for ( I like failing around the 12th rep). Then once you have reached true momentary muscular failure switch your hands so that they are now facing the same way they would at the bottom or the rep of DB presses. Then proceed to press the DB's up, once you are near the lockout phase of the rep, IMMEDIATELY switch back to doing the negative portion of the flyes. If you truly hit failure before you shouldn't be able to do maybe more than 3 AT MOST! The exercise is pretty much allowing you to do negative reps without the use of a spotter! It really torches the chest but is effective. I wouldn't do too many sets as they take there toll! If some of you want more feedback try looking up Maniak Flyes in the training section of the forum for Nutraplanet.com where I moderate at! Hope you guys and ladies try it out!

**spytech** · 12-24-2005, 07:30 AM

Cable flyes, incline, decline, and the Atrainer variations, are key elements of building chest mass for me. Presses fail to give me better growth than these movements.

KingOfChaos · 12-24-2005, 03:49 PM

I like doing them. As good as bench presses are for growth because they're a compound exercise, they really don't give me the burn in my chest that dumbbell flyes do.

jram · 12-27-2005, 12:30 PM

Hey Maniak1027;

Sounds like a great exercise. Since Saturday is my chest day, I'll give a try then. Thanks.

Peace

LatsMakeTheMan · 12-27-2005, 05:37 PM

I've got some recurring tendonitis in one of my rotator cuffs, and I think one of the primary causes was doing flies with weights that were too heavy in my first year or two of lifting.

That said, I did think they were a great chest exercise. I can't do them now, but I would if I could. Just be mindful of your shoulders.

Wedgylx · 12-28-2005, 01:21 AM

The biggest problem with flies is that people try to do too much weight and use terrible form. I can't think of any better way to eff up your rotator cuff than doing flies with too much weight! Flies help with striations of the cest for me, but don't really pack on any gains

AYung · 12-28-2005, 07:36 PM

I think they are a great exercise, I just started doing them. It gives a really good stretch.

ATrainer · 02-01-2006, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spytech

Cable flyes, incline, decline, and the Atrainer variations, are key elements of building chest mass for me. Presses fail to give me better growth than these movements.

Hey Zack, have you tried my flys on the cable crossover at your gym?

ZackMurphy · 02-01-2006, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATrainer

Hey Zack, have you tried my flys on the cable crossover at your gym?

Surely, my man. I do them now and then. You know I'm not Mr. Isolation, but I do like them. They feel good, and my shoulder flexibility, which is pretty good, allows nice ROM and form.

I also have taught a number of people how to do them, and most like them. I have one person (a fellow trainer, 38yo female, VERY buff chick) - she did them once and claimed it caused some elbow discomfort. I know that was bogus, but didn't feel like solving it at the time. I have a couple people who claim they "can't" do them do to limited ROM and the inability to lead with the elbows, but I keep trying.

How goes things?

ATrainer · 02-01-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZackMurphy

Surely, my man. I do them now and then. You know I'm not Mr. Isolation, but I do like them. They feel good, and my shoulder flexibility, which is pretty good, allows nice ROM and form.

I also have taught a number of people how to do them, and most like them. I have one person (a fellow trainer, 38yo female, VERY buff chick) - she did them once and claimed it caused some elbow discomfort. I know that was bogus, but didn't feel like solving it at the time. I have a couple people who claim they "can't" do them do to limited ROM and the inability to lead with the elbows, but I keep trying.

How goes things?

Things are good. I'm liking all the initials after your name. On the flys, you lead with the elbows as a form of focus, but your hands should stay with the elbows. If you physically let the hands lag, it does torque the elbow joint. It's a fine line.

Regarding the iso/compound thing: Do you train older clients with squats, deads, and bench?

ZackMurphy · 02-01-2006, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATrainer

Things are good. I'm liking all the initials after your name.

Making progress. Next is the CSCS.

I hate to list them - it's such a braggart move, but I feel like it might help lend some marginal credibility to this little site. What the hell, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATrainer

On the flys, you lead with the elbows as a form of focus, but your hands should stay with the elbows. If you physically let the hands lag, it does torque the elbow joint. It's a fine line.

As I recall from seeing her try them, she didn't simple drag her hands behind her elbows, so I feel like she was keeping the tension on her lower arms. But... I'll have to have her try them again some time just for kicks. I do know she was finishing the concentric with her lower arms parallel and under control. More on this another time, perhaps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATrainer

Regarding the iso/compound thing: Do you train older clients with squats, deads, and bench?

If then can, yes. I do some pretty substantial assessment of hip/knee/ankle ROM (especially ankle dorsiflexion) before we dive in, but they all head in that direction. Though I do almost no spinal loading without a very good reason. Lots of things at the hang position with DBs.

Of course it depends on what they can handle, but generally, nobody escapes the basic concept of picking up weights from the floor and pressing things overhead. I'm big on functional training for my non-vanity clients, so we do lots of things with DBs, mostly compound.

Lots of lunge/DL/squat-like moves, lots of push press and DB thruster-type moves, lots of things with the DBs in the shoulder carry position.... you get the idea.

Porque?

Z

ATrainer · 02-03-2006, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZackMurphy

Making progress. Next is the CSCS.

I hate to list them - it's such a braggart move, but I feel like it might help lend some marginal credibility to this little site. What the hell, right?

As I recall from seeing her try them, she didn't simple drag her hands behind her elbows, so I feel like she was keeping the tension on her lower arms. But... I'll have to have her try them again some time just for kicks. I do know she was finishing the concentric with her lower arms parallel and under control. More on this another time, perhaps.

If then can, yes. I do some pretty substantial assessment of hip/knee/ankle ROM (especially ankle dorsiflexion) before we dive in, but they all head in that direction. Though I do almost no spinal loading without a very good reason. Lots of things at the hang position with DBs.

Of course it depends on what they can handle, but generally, nobody escapes the basic concept of picking up weights from the floor and pressing things overhead. I'm big on functional training for my non-vanity clients, so we do lots of things with DBs, mostly compound.

Lots of lunge/DL/squat-like moves, lots of push press and DB thruster-type moves, lots of things with the DBs in the shoulder carry position.... you get the idea.

Porque?

Z

I'm always trying to get insights from as many people as possible, as usual. As a thinker and a doer, what you are doing in the trenches should be interesting. I was just curious which way you take a different population.

ZackMurphy · 02-03-2006, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATrainer

I'm always trying to get insights from as many people as possible, as usual. As a thinker and a doer, what you are doing in the trenches should be interesting. I was just curious which way you take a different population.

Gotcha. Not much flat BB benching. But lots of bench derivatives. And various forms of squats and deads. Very rarely true blue bench/dead/squatting. They just don't have the core strength or athleticism to do them right. But when they DO have that ability, you bet we do those.

But for most people, who are on the early phase sof fitness, we do things like this. This is far from a complete list, but these are moves I've had my clients do this week (those without major physical limitations)... all ages... they're moves I really like and find clients like doing. They respond positively, and sense they're doing things that are good for them:

1-handed DB snatch
staggered stance squat with DBs at the shoulder
reaching lunges
push presses
standing 45^ 1-arm pull downs
med ball crunch throws
1-legged RDLs
DB thrusters
overhead 1-arm DB squats
torso rotations
seated med ball throws (twisting)
lunges of all types, DBs at hang or shoulder

You get the idea. Pushes their cardio BIG time. These kinds of moves are usually high on my list. Athletic and functional, multi-joint, often whole-body. I often start a session with 1-3 moves like that, then (when they're pretty wiped out from those), we do some lower-key stuff. Swiss ball presses, seated rows, DB good mornings, etc. Then even MORE basic pressing, pulling, legs.

My two cents on training. Like you, though, I find others' tactics fascinating.

12-20-2005, 04:01 PM	#1
Gsus Amateur Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 43 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	is chest flys necessary? is chest flys necessary incline flat?

12-20-2005, 05:23 PM	#2
schroeder Der Leutnant Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: tacoma, wa Posts: 884 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 17	what does your normal chest routine look like? __________________ Live from Baghdad! Ich bin gross und stark!

12-24-2005, 07:30 AM	#6
spytech Getting Stronger Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,483 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 36	Cable flyes, incline, decline, and the Atrainer variations, are key elements of building chest mass for me. Presses fail to give me better growth than these movements. __________________ 5'10" - 230 @ 8-9% Status: Getting stronger... 692d/625s Create your own FREE Workout Journal at http://www.strengthandbody.com/ My Lifting Vids Spytech SHSHT: http://www.strengthandbody.com/shsht.html Spytech SHWSB: http://www.strengthandbody.com/shwsb.html

12-24-2005, 03:49 PM	#7
KingOfChaos Pro Stature Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Temple, TX Posts: 156 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	I like doing them. As good as bench presses are for growth because they're a compound exercise, they really don't give me the burn in my chest that dumbbell flyes do. __________________ Shawn Muder Bodybuilding Enthusiast Fire Controlman, United States Navy Starting Weight: 520 lbs. BF - 62% (3/24/04) Current Weight: 315 lbs. BF - 22% (03/09/08) MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/darkspeaker Livejournal: http://www.livejournal.com/~kingoflaw/ Realms of Evil, My D&D website: http://www.realmsofevil.net/

12-27-2005, 05:37 PM	#9
LatsMakeTheMan Pro Stature Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 185 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 5	I've got some recurring tendonitis in one of my rotator cuffs, and I think one of the primary causes was doing flies with weights that were too heavy in my first year or two of lifting. That said, I did think they were a great chest exercise. I can't do them now, but I would if I could. Just be mindful of your shoulders. __________________ Super Saiyan in training..... My MySpace account....come love me: http://www.myspace.com/eric2080

12-20-2005, 07:09 PM	#3
LaggingBiceps Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 246 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	if you want them add them, but i personally dont do them...only for warm ups because i get a better stretch than doing presses for warming up

12-20-2005, 08:55 PM	#5
Maniak1027 Amateur Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 29 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	Well like Zack said, nothing is necassary, but it's like saying squats or leg presses are not necessary, you can grow you legs without them, but the results are nothing compared if you had incoporated them. Myself I notice i do not get that soar if I do not do flyes, especially DB flyes (as opposed to cable crossovers). I have a variation of flyes that I call Maniak Flyes, they are a killer! What you do is you do your regular set of flyes to failure for whatever rep range you go for ( I like failing around the 12th rep). Then once you have reached true momentary muscular failure switch your hands so that they are now facing the same way they would at the bottom or the rep of DB presses. Then proceed to press the DB's up, once you are near the lockout phase of the rep, IMMEDIATELY switch back to doing the negative portion of the flyes. If you truly hit failure before you shouldn't be able to do maybe more than 3 AT MOST! The exercise is pretty much allowing you to do negative reps without the use of a spotter! It really torches the chest but is effective. I wouldn't do too many sets as they take there toll! If some of you want more feedback try looking up Maniak Flyes in the training section of the forum for Nutraplanet.com where I moderate at! Hope you guys and ladies try it out!

12-27-2005, 12:30 PM	#8
jram Amateur Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 60 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	Hey Maniak1027; Sounds like a great exercise. Since Saturday is my chest day, I'll give a try then. Thanks. Peace

12-28-2005, 01:21 AM	#10
Wedgylx Amateur Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 43 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	The biggest problem with flies is that people try to do too much weight and use terrible form. I can't think of any better way to eff up your rotator cuff than doing flies with too much weight! Flies help with striations of the cest for me, but don't really pack on any gains

12-28-2005, 07:36 PM	#11
AYung IMPC Contestant Join Date: May 2005 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada Posts: 2,282 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 41	I think they are a great exercise, I just started doing them. It gives a really good stretch. __________________ Clean Bulking Journal http://www.ironmass.com/showthread.php?t=9546 Max Lifts Bench: 155 x 6 Deadlift: 315 x 6 Squat: 245 x 6 1 Rep Max Lifts Bench: 180 - Tested Deadlift: 365 - Tested Squat: 285 - Estimated TOTAL: 831 @ 156lbs Eddie Guerrero (1967-2005, R.I.P.) You'll always be loved and remembered.

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