On the subject of trainers...

Arghlita · 04-13-2006, 09:50 PM

When I got my body fat tested in late March, the trainer took *forever* to get back to me. Apparently Gold's has this system wherin they take a message for "a trainer" and leave it for one specific person. The person they left the message with wasn't even in state at the time. So after a week, I mention it to one of the receptionist people and he tells me to go ahead and work out, he'll grab someone to come help me. He grabs a woman who I'll call K.

Right off, things just don't jibe. K was doing her *personal* routine and wasn't terribly happy to be interrupted, although she tried to put a good face on it. And I was already sweaty and frankly, not smelling my best. So when we go to take measurements and test fat, she seems really reluctant to touch me - like she wouldn't put her arms around my waist for the tape, I had to pass it around. In all of the years I've been measured for countless different purposes, I've never had anyone be so squeemish about it. Which kind of annoyed me because it isn't *my* fault their system is so messed up.

Anyway, today K comes up to me while I'm on the treadmill and is totally up my butt wanting to know how everything is going. All the trainers have noticed that not only am I coming in 5-6 times a week, I'm also busting my butt. And it's nice to be recognized. But...

I see how it is... I look like I'm succeeding and now you want to hitch your wagon to my butt so my photos can go in your portfolio. This is the personal trainer who didn't even want to touch me to take measurements and has given me 0.0% advice on how to reach my goals... but now that I'm succeeding ON MY OWN she wants me as a client.

Look, I know personal training is thankless and failure rates are astronomical. I totally understand wanting someone driven taking your advice. But maybe you shouldn't have come off so raw with me the first time, eh?

**EME** · 04-13-2006, 10:00 PM

Personal trainers that work full time in gyms and healthclubs are interested in people who come in regularly because they think you will buy training sessions.

If they think you will come once, and then not come back again, they don't see themselves making money from you.

When they see someone who is coming all the time and really working to lose weight, they realize it's these people that are most likley to be willing to spend a few hundred dollars to buy a package of training sessions.

Training sessions are how those types of trainers make money. The more sessions they can get you to buy, the more they are interested in you.

- EME

Arghlita · 04-13-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EME

Personal trainers that work full time in gyms and healthclubs are interested in people who come in regularly because they think you will buy training sessions.

If they think you will come once, and then not come back again, they don't see themselves making money from you.

When they see someone who is coming all the time and really working to lose weight, they realize it's these people that are most likley to be willing to spend a few hundred dollars to buy a package of training sessions.

Training sessions are how those types of trainers make money. The more sessions they can get you to buy, the more they are interested in you.

- EME

Thank you for clarifying. I think they are confused about my financial status because it's a pretty expensive gym - I think the monthly rate is about $60? I saved by buying a year in advance, but still... I purchased one year's membership as a birthday present for myself back when I was working full time and it was a stretch then. After I told the first trainer that all I wanted was one session per month focused on assessing my health... well, interest in training me dropped and it's difficult to even get a call back.

They are having a local body transformation class + contest, btw.

$500 to get weekly classroom sessions on nutrition for 12 weeks plus *one* session with a trainer to create a plan and periodic assessments. (Am I ever glad I'm in this contest!)

I'd rather pay my $15 per month to get my body fat tested, learn using all the free information available, and put that money into equipment, supplements and rewards. :nosthumbs

**EME** · 04-13-2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghlita

Thank you for clarifying. I think they are confused about my financial status because it's a pretty expensive gym - I think the monthly rate is about $60? I saved by buying a year in advance, but still... I purchased one year's membership as a birthday present for myself back when I was working full time and it was a stretch then. After I told the first trainer that all I wanted was one session per month focused on assessing my health... well, interest in training me dropped and it's difficult to even get a call back.

They are having a local body transformation class + contest, btw.

$500 to get weekly classroom sessions on nutrition for 12 weeks plus *one* session with a trainer to create a plan and periodic assessments. (Am I ever glad I'm in this contest!)

I'd rather pay my $15 per month to get my body fat tested, learn using all the free information available, and put that money into equipment, supplements and rewards. :nosthumbs

Honestly, I wouldn't even spend the money on the bodyfat tests.
When I started I used to do bodyfat tests all the time on my clients, because it's what trainers are "supposed" to do.

Now, I don't even do bodyfat tests on my competitors. The mirror and your eyes are much better indicators of your progress. The problem with even 7 point caliper measurements is that there is so much human error factor involved.

Give the same calipers to 10 different experienced trainers and you'll probably get at least 4-5 different measurements... at least.

The only body fat readings I trust are the ones I do on myself ( 3 point Chest, Ab, Thigh ) or one done by the same person everytime under the same conditions everytime ( i.e. cold, pre workout, etc )

Also... water weight fluctuations, and subcutaneous water retention can throw your measurements of significantly.

I can do my own readings, and I know I'm getting the exact same spot everytime because I can feel exactly where I'm pinching. I don't necessarily agree with the actual result ( 3 point usually comes out about 3% low on me ) but I do keep track of the change in the different readings, just to monitor progress.

Bottom line though, it's an inexact science, and if you're paying for it, I don't really think it's worth it unless you can hydrostatic underwater weighing done.

It's not that knowing your bodyfat is bad... certainly it's a good thing to know... it's just that unless you have access to really accurate measuring techniques, the result you will get at your average health club with calipers is very subjective.

Focus on the mirror, it does a much worse job of lying.

- EME

Arghlita · 04-13-2006, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EME

Honestly, I wouldn't even spend the money on the bodyfat tests.
When I started I used to do bodyfat tests all the time on my clients, because it's what trainers are "supposed" to do.

Now, I don't even do bodyfat tests on my competitors. The mirror and your eyes are much better indicators of your progress. The problem with even 7 point caliper measurements is that there is so much human error factor involved.

Give the same calipers to 10 different experienced trainers and you'll probably get at least 4-5 different measurements... at least.

The only body fat readings I trust are the ones I do on myself ( 3 point Chest, Ab, Thigh ) or one done by the same person everytime under the same conditions everytime ( i.e. cold, pre workout, etc )

Also... water weight fluctuations, and subcutaneous water retention can throw your measurements of significantly.

I can do my own readings, and I know I'm getting the exact same spot everytime because I can feel exactly where I'm pinching. I don't necessarily agree with the actual result ( 3 point usually comes out about 3% low on me ) but I do keep track of the change in the different readings, just to monitor progress.

Bottom line though, it's an inexact science, and if you're paying for it, I don't really think it's worth it unless you can hydrostatic underwater weighing done.

It's not that knowing your bodyfat is bad... certainly it's a good thing to know... it's just that unless you have access to really accurate measuring techniques, the result you will get at your average health club with calipers is very subjective.

Focus on the mirror, it does a much worse job of lying.

- EME

I suppose I could buy my own, eh? Thanks for the advice. I tend to lose "weight" a little more slowly and seeing body fat progress is really motivating. (Although inexact, I was trying to get the same trainer and the same conditions - it's really hard for me to get some of these points on my own.)

As for the mirror not lying, one day soon my husband is going to get tired of me waking him up to show him each little change - from the sports bra lying flat to the shadowy hint of conture in my lower back. It really is shocking how fast proper nutrition and any kind of consistant exercise will work.

And I can't believe how much money they want for a weekly *class*! That's more than they charge for 12 weeks of individual personal training once weekly!

(Naturally, all of this is still in excess of the excellent deals offered through your website.)

**EME** · 04-13-2006, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghlita

I suppose I could buy my own, eh? Thanks for the advice. I tend to lose "weight" a little more slowly and seeing body fat progress is really motivating. (Although inexact, I was trying to get the same trainer and the same conditions - it's really hard for me to get some of these points on my own.)

As for the mirror not lying, one day soon my husband is going to get tired of me waking him up to show him each little change - from the sports bra lying flat to the shadowy hint of conture in my lower back. It really is shocking how fast proper nutrition and any kind of consistant exercise will work.

And I can't believe how much money they want for a weekly *class*! That's more than they charge for 12 weeks of individual personal training once weekly!

(Naturally, all of this is still in excess of the excellent deals offered through your website.)

You can do the three point reading yourself which gives you a pretty good idea what's going on in terms of fat loss. As long as you are measuring in the same place each time, and doing it the same way, even if the actual number is a bit off, you will be able to tell by the difference in your skinfold caliper measurements if you are losing fat. You can use that as one tool out of many to gauge your progress.

Agreed. That is a lot for 12 nutrition classes and a cookie cutter program!

- EME

**skelooth** · 04-18-2006, 12:05 PM

As always EME hit everything right on the head, and has established himself as Trainer Kong, King of the Trainers.

I just want to chime in on trainers at my gym. They are all ACE certified. I bought a few sessions from the manager/trainer back when I first joined the gym, I used him soley as a means to get accustomed to the gym and have proper form while lifting.

Looking back, I am not / was not wild about the routines. But they made sense being I was a new lifter. I feel the trainer helped a lot, but only to get me pushed in the right direction. After a few sessions I started lifting on my own and have made phenominal progress.

The most part all the trainers at my gym do is count reps and smile at their female clients. I'm not there for that. I'm there to growl sweat and beat the crap out of myself lol.

BF% tests "should" be free if you're already paying a gym membership IMO. I think it's a bunch of :horse: that they are charging you.

**Trick D** · 04-18-2006, 06:47 PM

I think the key thing about trainers is not how they are trained, or who they were trained by but what they have been through. People who are classically trained and only know what are in manuals are the worse trainers. Trainers that know from experience what works and doesn't and have seen many different things is the key. There is book smart, and there is street smart. If I was going to get a personal trainer, I want someone that is practical, like EME that knows the book stuff and the practical stuff.

04-13-2006, 09:50 PM	#1
Arghlita IMPC Contestant Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northern VA Posts: 299 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 6	On the subject of trainers... When I got my body fat tested in late March, the trainer took forever to get back to me. Apparently Gold's has this system wherin they take a message for "a trainer" and leave it for one specific person. The person they left the message with wasn't even in state at the time. So after a week, I mention it to one of the receptionist people and he tells me to go ahead and work out, he'll grab someone to come help me. He grabs a woman who I'll call K. Right off, things just don't jibe. K was doing her personal routine and wasn't terribly happy to be interrupted, although she tried to put a good face on it. And I was already sweaty and frankly, not smelling my best. So when we go to take measurements and test fat, she seems really reluctant to touch me - like she wouldn't put her arms around my waist for the tape, I had to pass it around. In all of the years I've been measured for countless different purposes, I've never had anyone be so squeemish about it. Which kind of annoyed me because it isn't my fault their system is so messed up. Anyway, today K comes up to me while I'm on the treadmill and is totally up my butt wanting to know how everything is going. All the trainers have noticed that not only am I coming in 5-6 times a week, I'm also busting my butt. And it's nice to be recognized. But... I see how it is... I look like I'm succeeding and now you want to hitch your wagon to my butt so my photos can go in your portfolio. This is the personal trainer who didn't even want to touch me to take measurements and has given me 0.0% advice on how to reach my goals... but now that I'm succeeding ON MY OWN she wants me as a client. Look, I know personal training is thankless and failure rates are astronomical. I totally understand wanting someone driven taking your advice. But maybe you shouldn't have come off so raw with me the first time, eh?

04-13-2006, 10:00 PM	#2
EME Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,651 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 55	Personal trainers that work full time in gyms and healthclubs are interested in people who come in regularly because they think you will buy training sessions. If they think you will come once, and then not come back again, they don't see themselves making money from you. When they see someone who is coming all the time and really working to lose weight, they realize it's these people that are most likley to be willing to spend a few hundred dollars to buy a package of training sessions. Training sessions are how those types of trainers make money. The more sessions they can get you to buy, the more they are interested in you. - EME __________________ PhysiqueFXonline - Online Nutrition and Training with Michael and Kendra Elias: www.PhysiqueFXonline.com www.MichaelandKendra.com My wife, and IFBB Fitness Pro Kendra Elias' personal site: www.KendraElias.com Proud member of Team ALR: www.ALRIndustries.com

04-18-2006, 12:05 PM	#7
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 8,041 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 160	As always EME hit everything right on the head, and has established himself as Trainer Kong, King of the Trainers. I just want to chime in on trainers at my gym. They are all ACE certified. I bought a few sessions from the manager/trainer back when I first joined the gym, I used him soley as a means to get accustomed to the gym and have proper form while lifting. Looking back, I am not / was not wild about the routines. But they made sense being I was a new lifter. I feel the trainer helped a lot, but only to get me pushed in the right direction. After a few sessions I started lifting on my own and have made phenominal progress. The most part all the trainers at my gym do is count reps and smile at their female clients. I'm not there for that. I'm there to growl sweat and beat the crap out of myself lol. BF% tests "should" be free if you're already paying a gym membership IMO. I think it's a bunch of :horse: that they are charging you. __________________

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