Master Of Puppets

I haven't been getting much sleep at all these past few nights, like maybe 15-16 hours combined in the past 3 days, yet during the day, I feel BETTER and more awake than when i was getting 8 or 9 hours A NIGHT. Why do you think this is? My diet hasn't changed, but I haven't been lifting either =/

MOP

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Fresch

Maybe it has been good QUALITY of sleep as opposed to quantity!

DJohnson

Gotta find the "sweet spot". I find if I'm most awake and rested when I sleep 7 hours a night. Any more or less and I'm more tired and less rested for the day it seems.

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Age: 21 Height: 5'10.5"
Mar, 2001: 135lbs @ ~14%
Nov, 2004: 245lbs @ ~40%
Feb, 2006: 188lbs @ 20.1% - Hydrostatic Tested
Dec, 2006: 168lbs @ 5.5% - 7 Point Caliper Tested
BULKING FOR A LONG TIME NOW
Long Term Goal: Over 200lbs @ 8%

DJSTARER

hm... i never really though about that DJohn...


I just try to get as much as possible.... but maybe i'm tired because i'm getting 9-10 and waking up a lot.

__________________
My philosophies on training:

"Extreme training yields extreme results"

"Just because you can, does not mean you should"

"The best program is the one you are not doing"





Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass

PGA Professional of America


Current Stats:
474 Squat
601 Deadlift
320 Bench


Goals for next training cycle:

500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

Jayelin

Sometimes, for some people, less is more.

I function my best at about 5-6 hours of sleep, or less. If I get 7+ hours, I'm a zombie the next day.

Also, studies have shown that although the reccomended amount of sleep is 8 hours, sleep, like food, is best when broken up. As long as you get a good 5 hours in at one point, you're better off powernapping the rest of it than putting yourself down for a full 8 hours. Everyone is different, my dad can't function on less than a full night's sleep, whereas I can go for days on end with no negative effects. At one point I got less than 8 hours of sleep in an entire week, and 5 of it was all at once. So, you find out what works best for you, and go with it.

__________________
George Orwell was double plus right.

DJSTARER

i know i especially have a tough time sleeping when trying to gain mass. I think it is all the extra energy from food... my body tries so hard to burn it.

Is there any good stack (besdies ZMA) or herbal supp i should consider?

__________________
My philosophies on training:

"Extreme training yields extreme results"

"Just because you can, does not mean you should"

"The best program is the one you are not doing"





Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass

PGA Professional of America


Current Stats:
474 Squat
601 Deadlift
320 Bench


Goals for next training cycle:

500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

Jayelin

Just so you know, if you decide you do want to sleep more, one of the worst things you can do for yourself is to take sleep aids, like Sominex. I can't explains how it works from a biophysical standpoint, but I'm in a six year psych program, and one of they things they keep pounding into me is that sleep aids tend to knock you out, but they prevent your body from correctly reaching REM sleep.

As I'm sure you know, REM sleep is where dreaming occurs, the brain processes daily functions, and prepares the body for the day. Most importantly, all the muscles relax. In essence, this is the part of sleep where the actual 'resting' occurs.

So, if you get phase 1-4 sleep but no REM, your body starts to exibit the signs of sleep deprivation.

Alcohal has the same effect, which is why drunk sleep isn't refreshing.

__________________
George Orwell was double plus right.

DJSTARER

great post! repped.

__________________
My philosophies on training:

"Extreme training yields extreme results"

"Just because you can, does not mean you should"

"The best program is the one you are not doing"





Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass

PGA Professional of America


Current Stats:
474 Squat
601 Deadlift
320 Bench


Goals for next training cycle:

500lbs squat and a total over 1400 in competition

ja_ke

melatonin works well for me.

Jayelin

Aww, thank you.

__________________
George Orwell was double plus right.

Ikaika

Great post Jayelin...they teach you psych students anything that can help with getting more REM sleep?

__________________
No supplement can make up for the lack of a strong work ethic.

mr_min

why besides zma? that stuff works like a charm for me.


Valerian Root is often used as a mild sedative and is effective in promoting sleep. I have samples of it and does work pretty well on its own.

It a herb that relaxes the muscles, relaxing you overall..

did i say cheap, by the way?

heh

Jayelin

I'll track down my psych teacher tomorrow and see if he has any reccomendations, his doctorate is in brain function. The way your circadian rythmn works, you go through stages 1-4 of sleep where your body basically shuts down and does very little that is productive (this is where you are during drunksleep), then, when ready, it enters into REM, where dreaming/processing of memories from the day/muscles recouperate/certain vitamins and hormones are released. This generally takes place about 3.5-4 hours after you've fallen asleep. So, off the top of my head, I'd say trying to regulate a sleep schedule would probably encourage REM sleep, as would making sure you have at least 1 sleep set of 5 hours or greater.

After a while in REM sleep, your body repeats the cycle, called a Circadian Rythmn.

If napping, try to keep it less than 20 mins, or more than 2 hours. After 20 mins, the body falls from that temporary REM light sleep (when you first doze off, but can still be easily awakened) into stage 1 sleep, where the muscles shut down. After about 2 hours your body is preparing for REM, so your brain and muscles are in 'standby'. That is why, if awakened while in the middle of the deep sleep stages, you're incredibly groggy, feel like crap, and can't seem to shake off sleep mode.

Again, this all links back to the original post: We all require different amounts of sleep, sometimes, based on how quickly your body goes through a circadian rythmn, less can actually be more. It's about waking up when your body tells you it's the right time to wake up. If you can regulate your sleep schedule, your body will adapt and develop a reliable sleep pattern, and begin to wake up naturally at the appointed time (provided of course that you're giving yourself adequate sleep, and not running deprived all the time).

And last, but not least, drink plenty of water. Your brain won't function properly, just as the rest of your body will not, if it's dehydrated. And nothing says wakeup time better than a full bladder, most of the time, you'll start dreaming that you're looking for a toilet.

__________________
George Orwell was double plus right.

Jayelin

Valerian works well for some people, but it really depends. I can take it and have no effect, and mom takes one tablet and is still groggy two days later.

Triptophan (sp?) the ingredient in milk and turkey that makes you sleepy is effective because it has an intense, but short lived effect. So it's good for helping you doze off, but won't keep you from converting to rem later on.

Alcohal, other than preventing rem, also can cause you to wake up more frequently during the night.

Sometimes, even though it's more for placebo effect than anything else, having a nightly ritual of tea, warm milk, or a nightcap can be quite effective. For me it's taking out my contacts, taking my birth control pill, and saying singing the goodnight kitty cat song to Little Cat. It's dorky and short, but if I have time before bed I'll watch TV, play gameboy in the dark, or read. Anything you can to do prepare your body for sleep can improve your ability to fall asleep, rather than just driving home, stripping right inside your bedroom door, and collapsing on the bed, 3.5 hours before you have to be up for work (although I'm notorious for doing that as well).

__________________
George Orwell was double plus right.

Ikaika

Interesting...that might explain why I feel better when I'm on a regular schedule than when I go to sleep whenever and wake up whenever.

Jayelin = wise

__________________
No supplement can make up for the lack of a strong work ethic.

Jayelin

I have my moments, they're just few and far between.

__________________
George Orwell was double plus right.

mr_min

heres a trick i learned along time ago, take 1 xanax bar and call me in the morning...talk about awesome sleep - you sleep like a baby, and wake up fresher than you will have during your whole life.

again consult your doctor and get a proper perscription. I am not a doctor nor recommend anything. the above mentioned is something a birdie told me in my sleep....

Jayelin