The Things We Put Up With As Bodybuilders

**powerman2000** · 10-27-2005, 04:05 AM

Researched and Composed by Jacob Wilson

Introduction
We are easily the most misunderstood people on the planet. You see a world of slobs who thrive on donuts and comfort can never comprehend a group of people who thrive on pain and discipline! Hot and cold simply don't mix. Sooner or later each bodybuilder comes to this inevitable reality. In my own experience I have taken something that many would consider to be negative and turned it into positive humor. This article will review circumstances you will inevitably face due to your dedication to this sport, particularly with family and friends!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Joe

Lets face it, each and everyone of us has a relative who loves to tell stories about events that never took place!
They are usually characterized by the absolute worst conditioned bodies possible. My uncle Joe fits directly into this category. The man is the fattest, greasiest, downright hairiest slob I have ever met! He is the type of guy who can never keep his mouth shut, even when he has no idea what he is talking about. Every family reunion, no matter what, he ends out holding the same dinner conversation. Someone will casually ask how my bodybuilding is going and this is when uncle Joe chimes in!

" I remember when I was your age I was also into lifting. I'll tell you, I was huge and muscle-bound too. " Then he goes on to confirm this with my other relatives, who nod their heads even though they know that Joe is essentially talking out of his behind. Go figure!

The Most Repetitive Question You'll Ever Hear!

If you are truly into bodybuilding, you usually will have posters in your room, a hardcore bodybuilding video near your vcr or a T Shirt with a pro bodybuilder on the front. I don't care who it is, whether its your closest friend or a loved relative, if they are out of shape they will always, always ask you the same question! You probably know it before I even say it don't you!? That's right:

" You want to look like that??? " ( said in the most derogatory way you can imagine )

Now lets analyze this for a second. Firstly, they wish with all their being that they had 1/100 of the body of the person they asked you about. I have therefore narrowed this question down to a physiological disorder. You see, though they long to have a tremendous body they will never be willing to come close to doing the work it will take to get one. Hence, they cover up their short comings by acting as if they dislike the thought of having a kick ass physique!

Moving Day!

Damn! I was getting ready to write my next observation and lo and behold my telephone rings. My aunt asked if I could move her to a new apartment next week. Now, I know I shouldn't complain, but this will be the second person I've helped move this month! Every bodybuilder should be prepared to be the designated mover of the family. If its moving day for someone you know, you will be called upon to do the job, each and every time without fail!

Newton discovered the 3 laws of motion, I have discovered the 3 laws of moving, and they are just as infallible!

1. You will always be asked to move when you are on a bulk and haven't done cardio for a while.

2. Stairs! There will always be a minimum of 2-3 flights of stairs.

3. Even if someone else comes to help, you will be designated to carry the heaviest stuff! Couches, a big screen TV. You name it, you'll be hauling it up, while the other so called helpers are carrying tea cups into the kitchen!

Its a conspiracy I tell you, a conspiracy!

Weight Watchers

Oh boy, I think we can all attest to the fact that the following example is the most annoying of them all! Each of us have family and friends in need of help with their overall health and physical conditioning who refuse to take advice from us. Take a friend of mine for example. He's a great guy and a good friend, but when it comes to physical conditioning the guy doesn't have a clue! I won't say his real name here so lets call him Ralph instead. Ralph has always wanted to be cut up, but never had the will power to do it. Now, with my knowledge and professionalism I could turn the man into a machine, and I'd do it for free. Rather then taking this sensible route, what does he do? You guessed it, he joins all the other misinformed pawns of the world and freaking joins weight watchers! Where does it lead him? You guessed it again, with half his muscle burned off and a metabolism that is slowed to a crawl. The man has gone through their program 3-4 times and each time its the same story. Finally he decides to give my program a chance. I place him through one low level weight training routine and Ralph is more sore the next day then he's ever been in his life. That's the last time he came to my gym, and its a damn shame! As frustrating as friends or relatives like this can be, and we all have them, its best to keep laying your offer on the table. Even though you know they will never come to the reality that a great body takes Pain and suffering, plain and simple! No pathetic excuse for a substitute will work.

Toothpicks in The Gym

There are three classes of people in today's gyms. Toothpicks who quit after a month of training, flabby slobs who quit after a month of training and then the hardcore athlete ( namely you reading this right now ). The comment I will discuss here has to do with the toothpicks of the world! I know each and every one of you reading this has heard this comment before as they ride the treadmill for the 3rd hour straight and talk smack with their loser training partners:

" I could get big like that guy over their ( speaking of you ). But all that would get me is muscle bound, and I train to be healthy, not huge. " ( he says it in a way so that everyone in the cardio room can hear him )

If I had a dime for how many people like that I've seen slapped because of their retarded comments I would be a rich man! Fortunately I can see right through most of the dweebs that make these statements. They are again jealous of human beings with superior physiques and rather than work for one of their own, they lie to themselves instead. Its rather sad actually....

Loud Mouth

How many of you have an out of shape person who is close to you, that thinks they know everything about physical conditioning and nutrition? You know, the person who is not only out of shape, but has never been in shape and never will be in shape. There is a friend of my family who is just like this. The type of family friend who you only put up with out of respect for your parents. She's your typical bon bon eating, loud mouth who'd
disagree with anything that took hard work and perseverance. You can imagine and probably relate to having to talk to a person as stubborn as this! For the sake of this article I will change her name to A. l. M. This of course stands for Annoying loud Mouth...

During any get together A. I. M. greets me with a derogatory comment such as, " I see you are still on your way to having arthritis at an early age. " Now, as ignorant as this statement is I have never turned and said, I see you are still stuffing your face with pizza and ice-cream while watching soaps everyday! That's not my style. So I'll ignore her and she will always find a way to catch up with me and suck me into a useless debate. Its usually something like. Why do you do bulk up, or why are your diets so extreme? Isn't that completely unhealthy? Then she goes on to quote some stuff she heard about 6 months ago on her local health network. And she always twists the study to fit her goals.

Guess what I've learned after countless arguments with negative people like this? They aren't worth it. Here is my new policy and I recommend it for you as well. Never argue about bodybuilding with a person who's character fits the following:

1. Doesn't Have a Clue

2. Is an Out of Shape Slob, and content to be so

3. Likes to argue for the sake of arguing and wants to win the argument no matter how retarded their side is!

A Complete Misuse of Science

I am in the habit of having several discussions with my banker. He is your A typical out of shape slob. Well the last conversation I had with him reflected heavily our societies willingness to settle. He told me that soon medicine will be able to eliminate heart attacks and several things along these lines. He also discussed how comparatively speaking people who eat healthy and exercise are not any better off then people who do not as far as life span was concerned, due to modern day medicine.

Now here is a person who is obviously trying to come to grips with the fact that he will never be in shape. He is creating an illusion for himself. First off, I believe that what he is saying is complete trash. However lets suppose he is correct. My thoughts then would be this: Lets say you and a friend purchased cars at the same time. You purchased a Lamborghini and he or she purchased a green Pinto. If both cars lasted the same amount of years, which driver do you think would have had the better time? You or your friend? Exactly! If you are living in a pinto of a body then who cares if you can live as long as us? No amount of medicine can purchase what you and I are getting from hard work and discipline in the gym!

They Just don't get the lifestyle!

What I have been trying to say, is that they just don't get our lifestyle! Here are 6 more common phrases each of us has heard an innumerable amount of times.

1. ( in a snobby voice ) Don't you get tired of eating all that healthy food???

2. Don't you think of anything besides lifting weights??? There's more to life you know....

3. Doesn't your bodies creatine making system stop making creatine after taking it? I could never do that to myself!

4. I can't believe you aren't going out Friday night! Sheesh...

5. Won't creatine shorten your lifespan?

6. Why do you want to get big????

Conclusion

We love our family and friends but lets face it, they can test us at times. My overall advice is twofold.

A. Next time someone makes a statement like the ones listed in this article quietly laugh it off. After all you are bound to hear the most hilarious things!

B. And secondly, just realize that somewhere out there, a fellow bodybuilder is going through the same thing!

Psychoholic · 10-27-2005, 05:26 AM

That's funny as hell dude

**DarkFalcon** · 10-27-2005, 05:27 AM

lol..that's great and totally true. I was laughing all through the moving stuff.

:bigthumbu

GameDayDog · 10-27-2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

Weight Watchers

Oh boy, I think we can all attest to the fact that the following example is the most annoying of them all! Each of us have family and friends in need of help with their overall health and physical conditioning who refuse to take advice from us. Take a friend of mine for example. He's a great guy and a good friend, but when it comes to physical conditioning the guy doesn't have a clue! I won't say his real name here so lets call him Ralph instead. Ralph has always wanted to be cut up, but never had the will power to do it. Now, with my knowledge and professionalism I could turn the man into a machine, and I'd do it for free. Rather then taking this sensible route, what does he do? You guessed it, he joins all the other misinformed pawns of the world and freaking joins weight watchers! Where does it lead him? You guessed it again, with half his muscle burned off and a metabolism that is slowed to a crawl. The man has gone through their program 3-4 times and each time its the same story. Finally he decides to give my program a chance. I place him through one low level weight training routine and Ralph is more sore the next day then he's ever been in his life. That's the last time he came to my gym, and its a damn shame! As frustrating as friends or relatives like this can be, and we all have them, its best to keep laying your offer on the table. Even though you know they will never come to the reality that a great body takes Pain and suffering, plain and simple! No pathetic excuse for a substitute will work.

Hahaha... thys was great.. but I have an addition... How about... & we all know thys person... the - "Forget working out... I just want to pop a fat burner!!" ... Thys person doesn't even go to weight watchers or a gym period... they just wanna continue living the lyfestyle they're accustomed too... Pizza & beer 3 nyghts a week... Big Mac's & Fries the other 4 nyghts... but they'll pop a fat burner religiously... and then they'll tell you... and you've heard thys before... - "Nothyng I take helps me to lose thys weight!!"

Peace..~G

BBAddict · 10-27-2005, 12:31 PM

LOL! It's funny cause it's true. I get a ton of people that ask how I lost my weight and packed on the muscle, so I tell them the gory details and lose all interest. Either that or they try it for a week or so, half-heartedly, and decide its too much work. Or there's the other guy I work with that does most of it, but sneaks candy, whole packages of Oreos, pizza on the weekend, etc. and then can't figure out why it isn't working for him!

dnyc99 · 10-27-2005, 04:23 PM

Quote:

B. And secondly, just realize that somewhere out there, a fellow bodybuilder is going through the same thing!

:bigthumbu

I can relate to the moving and diet talk.

Everytime something has to be moved I get asked to 'help'..which I end up doing by myself. From deadlifting granny up from her bed...to moving sofas, cabinets...carrying A/C's out of the room(s). Oh and if I'm tired and ask why I always have to do it? I get the "You lift weights don't you?" All of a sudden I have to PROVE that I can lift heavy. :bowed:

There's also Mr.knowitall who tells me not to lift because I'll get HUGE. Those protein shake have steroids.

What foods I should eat and how to diet. His first 'meal' consists of coffee w/ cream and lots of sugar and crackers/cookies for breakfast. :banghead:

I've just learned to listen and have it go in one ear out the other. I don't bother to comment or argue cause it's a waste of time. I did my research and put in the time and dedication into my training/diet...they can do whatever they like..it's not my life.

**DarkFalcon** · 10-27-2005, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnyc99

Everytime something has to be moved I get asked to 'help'..which I end up doing by myself. From deadlifting granny up from her bed...to moving sofas, cabinets...carrying A/C's out of the room(s). Oh and if I'm tired and ask why I always have to do it? I get the "You lift weights don't you?" All of a sudden I have to PROVE that I can lift heavy. :bowed:

LMAO!! I get that one all the time.

"Why can't you lift it? You big wimp I thought you worked out all the time and are in great shape?"

What they don't know is I hate lifting anything extra if it will take away strength from my workout later that day.

dnyc99 · 10-27-2005, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFalcon

What they don't know is I hate lifting anything extra if it will take away strength from my workout later that day.

LoL Exactly!!

**BobThePotato** · 10-28-2005, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFalcon

LMAO!! I get that one all the time.

"Why can't you lift it? You big wimp I thought you worked out all the time and are in great shape?"

What they don't know is I hate lifting anything extra if it will take away strength from my workout later that day.

hahah.. funny story, one day my freind got her car stuck in a snowbank and i made her and my ex get out and push the car out becuase i didnt want to waste any strength for my workout that afternoon.

**DarkFalcon** · 10-28-2005, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobThePotato

hahah.. funny story, one day my freind got her car stuck in a snowbank and i made her and my ex get out and push the car out becuase i didnt want to waste any strength for my workout that afternoon.

LMAO! I think we're all obsessed! :bigthumbu

**skelooth** · 10-28-2005, 03:17 AM

I wish i read this thread sooner. Hilarious, and RIGHT ON THE MONEY. Everything said is 100% true!

chlaxman · 10-28-2005, 04:24 AM

Speak of the devil, I was sitting at dinner tonight with a bunch of my friends and someone asked how much protein was in an egg white, because I had 8. The topic turned to how much protein you need in a day and I said at the very MINIMUM 1g/lb of weight. Needless to say, the entire table erupted into how I didn't know anything about nutrition and that was so many cals. It kind of silenced them when I told them that that really is not that much. Regardless, they continued arguing until I just said "Look, you can follow your diet, and I'll follow my scientifically and anecdotally proven nutrition."

**builtbeast** · 10-28-2005, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobThePotato

hahah.. funny story, one day my freind got her car stuck in a snowbank and i made her and my ex get out and push the car out becuase i didnt want to waste any strength for my workout that afternoon.

That's the way I am, my dad wanted me to help him move some heavy furniture last weekend, but I said I'd do it later since I didn't want to do it before the workout.

No good reason to waste energy.

**powerman2000** · 10-28-2005, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by builtbeast

No good reason to waste energy.

I would have to disagree with you beast. :bed2:

dnyc99 · 10-28-2005, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

I would have to disagree with you beast. :bed2:

LoL Cardio after lifting is fine.

10-27-2005, 04:05 AM	#1
powerman2000 The Old Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,136 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 200	The Things We Put Up With As Bodybuilders Researched and Composed by Jacob Wilson Introduction We are easily the most misunderstood people on the planet. You see a world of slobs who thrive on donuts and comfort can never comprehend a group of people who thrive on pain and discipline! Hot and cold simply don't mix. Sooner or later each bodybuilder comes to this inevitable reality. In my own experience I have taken something that many would consider to be negative and turned it into positive humor. This article will review circumstances you will inevitably face due to your dedication to this sport, particularly with family and friends! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Joe Lets face it, each and everyone of us has a relative who loves to tell stories about events that never took place! They are usually characterized by the absolute worst conditioned bodies possible. My uncle Joe fits directly into this category. The man is the fattest, greasiest, downright hairiest slob I have ever met! He is the type of guy who can never keep his mouth shut, even when he has no idea what he is talking about. Every family reunion, no matter what, he ends out holding the same dinner conversation. Someone will casually ask how my bodybuilding is going and this is when uncle Joe chimes in! " I remember when I was your age I was also into lifting. I'll tell you, I was huge and muscle-bound too. " Then he goes on to confirm this with my other relatives, who nod their heads even though they know that Joe is essentially talking out of his behind. Go figure! The Most Repetitive Question You'll Ever Hear! If you are truly into bodybuilding, you usually will have posters in your room, a hardcore bodybuilding video near your vcr or a T Shirt with a pro bodybuilder on the front. I don't care who it is, whether its your closest friend or a loved relative, if they are out of shape they will always, always ask you the same question! You probably know it before I even say it don't you!? That's right: " You want to look like that??? " ( said in the most derogatory way you can imagine ) Now lets analyze this for a second. Firstly, they wish with all their being that they had 1/100 of the body of the person they asked you about. I have therefore narrowed this question down to a physiological disorder. You see, though they long to have a tremendous body they will never be willing to come close to doing the work it will take to get one. Hence, they cover up their short comings by acting as if they dislike the thought of having a kick ass physique! Moving Day! Damn! I was getting ready to write my next observation and lo and behold my telephone rings. My aunt asked if I could move her to a new apartment next week. Now, I know I shouldn't complain, but this will be the second person I've helped move this month! Every bodybuilder should be prepared to be the designated mover of the family. If its moving day for someone you know, you will be called upon to do the job, each and every time without fail! Newton discovered the 3 laws of motion, I have discovered the 3 laws of moving, and they are just as infallible! 1. You will always be asked to move when you are on a bulk and haven't done cardio for a while. 2. Stairs! There will always be a minimum of 2-3 flights of stairs. 3. Even if someone else comes to help, you will be designated to carry the heaviest stuff! Couches, a big screen TV. You name it, you'll be hauling it up, while the other so called helpers are carrying tea cups into the kitchen! Its a conspiracy I tell you, a conspiracy! Weight Watchers Oh boy, I think we can all attest to the fact that the following example is the most annoying of them all! Each of us have family and friends in need of help with their overall health and physical conditioning who refuse to take advice from us. Take a friend of mine for example. He's a great guy and a good friend, but when it comes to physical conditioning the guy doesn't have a clue! I won't say his real name here so lets call him Ralph instead. Ralph has always wanted to be cut up, but never had the will power to do it. Now, with my knowledge and professionalism I could turn the man into a machine, and I'd do it for free. Rather then taking this sensible route, what does he do? You guessed it, he joins all the other misinformed pawns of the world and freaking joins weight watchers! Where does it lead him? You guessed it again, with half his muscle burned off and a metabolism that is slowed to a crawl. The man has gone through their program 3-4 times and each time its the same story. Finally he decides to give my program a chance. I place him through one low level weight training routine and Ralph is more sore the next day then he's ever been in his life. That's the last time he came to my gym, and its a damn shame! As frustrating as friends or relatives like this can be, and we all have them, its best to keep laying your offer on the table. Even though you know they will never come to the reality that a great body takes Pain and suffering, plain and simple! No pathetic excuse for a substitute will work. Toothpicks in The Gym There are three classes of people in today's gyms. Toothpicks who quit after a month of training, flabby slobs who quit after a month of training and then the hardcore athlete ( namely you reading this right now ). The comment I will discuss here has to do with the toothpicks of the world! I know each and every one of you reading this has heard this comment before as they ride the treadmill for the 3rd hour straight and talk smack with their loser training partners: " I could get big like that guy over their ( speaking of you ). But all that would get me is muscle bound, and I train to be healthy, not huge. " ( he says it in a way so that everyone in the cardio room can hear him ) If I had a dime for how many people like that I've seen slapped because of their retarded comments I would be a rich man! Fortunately I can see right through most of the dweebs that make these statements. They are again jealous of human beings with superior physiques and rather than work for one of their own, they lie to themselves instead. Its rather sad actually.... Loud Mouth How many of you have an out of shape person who is close to you, that thinks they know everything about physical conditioning and nutrition? You know, the person who is not only out of shape, but has never been in shape and never will be in shape. There is a friend of my family who is just like this. The type of family friend who you only put up with out of respect for your parents. She's your typical bon bon eating, loud mouth who'd disagree with anything that took hard work and perseverance. You can imagine and probably relate to having to talk to a person as stubborn as this! For the sake of this article I will change her name to A. l. M. This of course stands for Annoying loud Mouth... During any get together A. I. M. greets me with a derogatory comment such as, " I see you are still on your way to having arthritis at an early age. " Now, as ignorant as this statement is I have never turned and said, I see you are still stuffing your face with pizza and ice-cream while watching soaps everyday! That's not my style. So I'll ignore her and she will always find a way to catch up with me and suck me into a useless debate. Its usually something like. Why do you do bulk up, or why are your diets so extreme? Isn't that completely unhealthy? Then she goes on to quote some stuff she heard about 6 months ago on her local health network. And she always twists the study to fit her goals. Guess what I've learned after countless arguments with negative people like this? They aren't worth it. Here is my new policy and I recommend it for you as well. Never argue about bodybuilding with a person who's character fits the following: 1. Doesn't Have a Clue 2. Is an Out of Shape Slob, and content to be so 3. Likes to argue for the sake of arguing and wants to win the argument no matter how retarded their side is! A Complete Misuse of Science I am in the habit of having several discussions with my banker. He is your A typical out of shape slob. Well the last conversation I had with him reflected heavily our societies willingness to settle. He told me that soon medicine will be able to eliminate heart attacks and several things along these lines. He also discussed how comparatively speaking people who eat healthy and exercise are not any better off then people who do not as far as life span was concerned, due to modern day medicine. Now here is a person who is obviously trying to come to grips with the fact that he will never be in shape. He is creating an illusion for himself. First off, I believe that what he is saying is complete trash. However lets suppose he is correct. My thoughts then would be this: Lets say you and a friend purchased cars at the same time. You purchased a Lamborghini and he or she purchased a green Pinto. If both cars lasted the same amount of years, which driver do you think would have had the better time? You or your friend? Exactly! If you are living in a pinto of a body then who cares if you can live as long as us? No amount of medicine can purchase what you and I are getting from hard work and discipline in the gym! They Just don't get the lifestyle! What I have been trying to say, is that they just don't get our lifestyle! Here are 6 more common phrases each of us has heard an innumerable amount of times. 1. ( in a snobby voice ) Don't you get tired of eating all that healthy food??? 2. Don't you think of anything besides lifting weights??? There's more to life you know.... 3. Doesn't your bodies creatine making system stop making creatine after taking it? I could never do that to myself! 4. I can't believe you aren't going out Friday night! Sheesh... 5. Won't creatine shorten your lifespan? 6. Why do you want to get big???? Conclusion We love our family and friends but lets face it, they can test us at times. My overall advice is twofold. A. Next time someone makes a statement like the ones listed in this article quietly laugh it off. After all you are bound to hear the most hilarious things! B. And secondly, just realize that somewhere out there, a fellow bodybuilder is going through the same thing! __________________ Don't forget to periodize Best BP 507 lbs competitive Best Squat 705 lbs competitive Best DL 650 lbs competitive Guns don't kill people, men who come home early do. My workout log http://www.ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6247

10-27-2005, 12:31 PM	#5
BBAddict Pro Stature Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: In The Gym Posts: 101 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	LOL! It's funny cause it's true. I get a ton of people that ask how I lost my weight and packed on the muscle, so I tell them the gory details and lose all interest. Either that or they try it for a week or so, half-heartedly, and decide its too much work. Or there's the other guy I work with that does most of it, but sneaks candy, whole packages of Oreos, pizza on the weekend, etc. and then can't figure out why it isn't working for him! __________________ PAIN IS WEAKNESS LEAVING THE BODY.

10-28-2005, 03:17 AM	#11
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,200 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	I wish i read this thread sooner. Hilarious, and RIGHT ON THE MONEY. Everything said is 100% true! __________________ http://loseover100lbs.com/misc-f7.html

10-28-2005, 04:24 AM	#12
chlaxman Pro Stature Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Maine baby Posts: 560 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 9	Speak of the devil, I was sitting at dinner tonight with a bunch of my friends and someone asked how much protein was in an egg white, because I had 8. The topic turned to how much protein you need in a day and I said at the very MINIMUM 1g/lb of weight. Needless to say, the entire table erupted into how I didn't know anything about nutrition and that was so many cals. It kind of silenced them when I told them that that really is not that much. Regardless, they continued arguing until I just said "Look, you can follow your diet, and I'll follow my scientifically and anecdotally proven nutrition." __________________ Tempora mutantur, et nos mutamur in illis. :weight_li :dumbells: :bed2: :friday:

10-27-2005, 05:26 AM	#2
Psychoholic IronMass Donator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 573 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 21	That's funny as hell dude

10-27-2005, 05:27 AM	#3
DarkFalcon I've got a RAGING clue! Join Date: May 2005 Location: dnyc99's cleaning staff Posts: 11,511 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 299	lol..that's great and totally true. I was laughing all through the moving stuff. :bigthumbu

10-28-2005, 09:57 PM	#16
powerman2000 The Old Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,136 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 200