RAW powerlifting

JournalistBT · 05-01-2005, 05:48 AM

There has never been a powerlifter to bench 800lbs. The biggest RAW bench ever in competition was 713 by Scott Mendelson. He also used the "elbows in" technique, expanded his stomach, arched back, used leg drive, etc, etc.. The biggest RAW bench ever according to IPF rules was done by James Henderson who benched 711 laying flat on his back like a bodybuilder at 400+ pounds bodyweight. The most impressive RAW bencher that I have ever seen was Glen Chabot who broke Kaz's record doing 665 RAW, with a narrow grip lying flat on his back.

Some of these powerlifters would lift a ton RAW, others would not. For instance at one point in time Scott Mendelson was the best bencher with a shirt and the best RAW bencher, as he held the record in both. Other powerlifters cannot do as much without the gear. Same goes for bodybuilders some are all show, others have some go and develop a different percentage of fast twitch/slow twitch fibers, tendon strength etc...

Also you have to remember lifters like Coleman, Kovaks, etc, would need to change their technique in order to lift under the same circumstances that the top powerlifters do. Finally, they would need to incorporate speed days, train their lockout, sticking points, lower their reps, etc, like the powerlifters do. With minor adjustments, I'm sure they too, could be near or at the top. However, to reverse your debate, what if a super heavy weight powerlifter that was lean got shredded, could they compete with the top bodybuilders? Pehaps? Maybe a few? And if Coleman, Ruhl, etc ever benches 700+ RAW, they should definitely video tape it and do a bench show. RAW, lifting is not dead, it's just that the gear is where the money is at and besides most lifters once they get involved with the gear, the equipment, etc, they find training more hardcore, extreme, they can handle more weight and the methods are fun, plus the shirts give them confidence as they control the weight down, they don't have to worry about pec tears and they have an assisted max as well as a RAW max.

**Sholiz** · 05-01-2005, 09:46 PM

Good post Journalist.

JournalistBT · 05-02-2005, 12:17 AM

Thanks, Sholiz, and to answer sfixmos question, people find bench shirts and other gear exciting for the simple fact that they use it, they lift more with it, they understand it and it pushes them beyond "natural" performance limitations. Very few people can be genetic freaks, many great benchers develop pec tears so that ends benching careers, but with the shirts, they can have longer lasting careers, the shirts are where the money is at, what everyone does and they can go beyond genetic limitations and since they use it, then it's exciting to them.They can now see the bench press as a game without limits, without a finish line and that drives them for more. You really need to live the lifestyle to understand the passion or have a mind that can relate to them in order to truly get it.

For example, lots of things don't seem exciting or interesting for us, like for example perhaps one of your relatives never cared about powerbuiilding, but then you succeeded. They learned the effort, the mechanices, physics and the whole process behind it and now they love it... To reverse your question, it's like asking a bodybuilder "How does using drugs make bodybuilding exciting"? Yeah, sure, it's cheating if you compare it to drug free bodybuilders, but the freaks of the freaks are juiced to the gills, they go farther (in a different dimension) and they are the SHOW to many of the fans. I hear a lot more Ronnie Coleman fans then John Hansen (promoter of drug free bodybuilding).You know ECW or wrestling from the 1970s? We all have our own personal taste, that is all I can say and it requires empathy, an open mind, etc, to get it or want to try it.

sfiximo · 05-02-2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JournalistBT

Thanks, Sholiz, and to answer sfixmos question, people find bench shirts and other gear exciting for the simple fact that they use it, they lift more with it, they understand it and it pushes them beyond "natural" performance limitations. Very few people can be genetic freaks, many great benchers develop pec tears so that ends benching careers, but with the shirts, they can have longer lasting careers, the shirts are where the money is at, what everyone does and they can go beyond genetic limitations and since they use it, then it's exciting to them.They can now see the bench press as a game without limits, without a finish line and that drives them for more. You really need to live the lifestyle to understand the passion or have a mind that can relate to them in order to truly get it.

Does this make it necessary for the lifters to use triple shirts? Would it be fine if they just used normal bench shirts to avoid injuries?

Quote:

To reverse your question, it's like asking a bodybuilder "How does using drugs make bodybuilding exciting"? Yeah, sure, it's cheating if you compare it to drug free bodybuilders, but the freaks of the freaks are juiced to the gills, they go farther (in a different dimension) and they are the SHOW to many of the fans. I hear a lot more Ronnie Coleman fans then John Hansen (promoter of drug free bodybuilding).You know ECW or wrestling from the 1970s? We all have our own personal taste, that is all I can say and it requires empathy, an open mind, etc, to get it or want to try it.

But ronnie coleman doesnt come on stage with balloons inside his skin to make him look bigger, right?

JournalistBT · 05-03-2005, 01:07 AM

yeah, the old debate "how far is too far".....Think about it, 10 ply gear, single ply gear, drug free bodybuilding or bodybuilding with the enhancements of drugs, what do they all have in common? All lifters are trying to make "STATEMENTS" Whether it's done for themselves, others, God, the journey, challenge or whatever the personal reason might be... You have to remember, lifters don't care what "the outside culture thinks" (or at least shouldn't care) they are living a dream, they are making huge sacrifices, it's not the external appearance of the result that matters so much as the inner battle of their emotions and pride to conquer a goal....

So, the only difference between a RAW bencher and a gear bencher that takes gear to the extreme is that one benches less weight with natural strength as the other likes to see how far they can go with all the enhancements in the world...... So what if it doesnt seem fair, it's a different game, plain and simple. Put, yourself into the shoes of an EXTREME 1,000lbs bencher... They get the gear, they get good, the gear on the market expands, their lifts do, it keeps the competition increasing and allows them to increase. They put their lives on the line and they make it work for them. It's still the attitude to be the best they can be.

As for all the people who bash other lifters, or anything for that matter, need to look into themselves and see what is causing it. I believe that there is a dark cloudy mirror, a lost disowned shadow of themselves that is very unconscious screaming "I WANT TO BENCH 1000LBS WITH GEAR" Imagine the power, I would have, however, I can't confront my darkness so I will project it on the worlds best...... We all have a core reality that starts during these conversations, the problem that we run into is when we think our reality is the only one possible (in a debate) and anyone elses is a threat to our identity, character and soul. By being able to understand different hardcore cultures and respecting the attitudes gives us a better understanding of the world and the moment..... Regardless, speculation, controversy, debate can be fun, but it's unhealthy for the sport.... Besides, all the gear, we have a single ply champion during the BENCH AMERICA COMPETITIONS and we have a lot of contest coming up and we will see what happens. If your curious to know who the best RAW bencher is, it's not Gene (the 1000+) bencher, it's not crawford or Lattimer (both 800+ benchers) it's Mendy and then Kennelly.

**powerman2000** · 05-12-2005, 01:15 PM

I'm all for using knee wraps, belts and lifting suits. (singlets)

I never did like using a bench shirt and therefore I never did. My 507 lb BP is "raw". I don't think that the bench shirt should even be allowed!

Dan · 05-12-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

I'm all for using knee wraps, belts and lifting suits. (singlets)

I never did like using a bench shirt and therefore I never did. My 507 lb BP is "raw". I don't think that the bench shirt should even be allowed!

You are one strong SOB bro... personally I think the shirts are lame.

What are you benching now weight wise?

**powerman2000** · 05-12-2005, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan

You are one strong SOB bro... personally I think the shirts are lame.

What are you benching now weight wise?

I actually don't do BP anymore. Unless I decide to compete again, which I might, I don't need the BP for bbing.

Dan · 05-12-2005, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerman2000

I actually don't do BP anymore. Unless I decide to compete again, which I might, I don't need the BP for bbing.

I have not benched in a while either.

**Trick D** · 05-12-2005, 02:27 PM

I hate bench shirts myself... i was going to compete in a state NASA meet, but came down with mono, and i mean the worst mono case ever, i had a flamed liver and spleen and lost weight and couldn't lift for all summer. I had a bench shirt, and well when you put it on, you hate it, and i have long arms and could never get use to the thing... I'll sell it to anyone who wants it, it is a size 48 Inzer, a pretty good one, forgot the model number, but it cost me around 80, and it is single ply...

I saw a midget at the arnold classic bench 650 in a shirt, he weighed 150 something.

**powerman2000** · 05-12-2005, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trick D

I saw a midget at the arnold classic bench 650 in a shirt, he weighed 150 something.

Ummm, that is like 4X his bw. I don't think anyone has ever done that?

**Trick D** · 05-12-2005, 03:32 PM

not 100% sure, i know there is several 3x, he probably was in the 160's I can't really remember, but of course he had about 1.5 foot arms, and had probably a triple rage on...

05-01-2005, 05:48 AM	#1
JournalistBT New Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 19 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	RAW powerlifting There has never been a powerlifter to bench 800lbs. The biggest RAW bench ever in competition was 713 by Scott Mendelson. He also used the "elbows in" technique, expanded his stomach, arched back, used leg drive, etc, etc.. The biggest RAW bench ever according to IPF rules was done by James Henderson who benched 711 laying flat on his back like a bodybuilder at 400+ pounds bodyweight. The most impressive RAW bencher that I have ever seen was Glen Chabot who broke Kaz's record doing 665 RAW, with a narrow grip lying flat on his back. Some of these powerlifters would lift a ton RAW, others would not. For instance at one point in time Scott Mendelson was the best bencher with a shirt and the best RAW bencher, as he held the record in both. Other powerlifters cannot do as much without the gear. Same goes for bodybuilders some are all show, others have some go and develop a different percentage of fast twitch/slow twitch fibers, tendon strength etc... Also you have to remember lifters like Coleman, Kovaks, etc, would need to change their technique in order to lift under the same circumstances that the top powerlifters do. Finally, they would need to incorporate speed days, train their lockout, sticking points, lower their reps, etc, like the powerlifters do. With minor adjustments, I'm sure they too, could be near or at the top. However, to reverse your debate, what if a super heavy weight powerlifter that was lean got shredded, could they compete with the top bodybuilders? Pehaps? Maybe a few? And if Coleman, Ruhl, etc ever benches 700+ RAW, they should definitely video tape it and do a bench show. RAW, lifting is not dead, it's just that the gear is where the money is at and besides most lifters once they get involved with the gear, the equipment, etc, they find training more hardcore, extreme, they can handle more weight and the methods are fun, plus the shirts give them confidence as they control the weight down, they don't have to worry about pec tears and they have an assisted max as well as a RAW max.

05-01-2005, 09:46 PM	#2
Sholiz Soldier In Progress Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,431 Recipes: 3 Rep Power: 230	Good post Journalist. __________________ You hear me before you see me, I got King Kong in the trunk

05-12-2005, 01:15 PM	#6
powerman2000 The Old Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,188 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 202	I'm all for using knee wraps, belts and lifting suits. (singlets) I never did like using a bench shirt and therefore I never did. My 507 lb BP is "raw". I don't think that the bench shirt should even be allowed! __________________ Don't forget to periodize Best BP 507 lbs competitive Best Squat 705 lbs competitive Best DL 650 lbs competitive Guns don't kill people, men who come home early do. My workout log http://www.ironmass.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6247

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05-02-2005, 12:17 AM	#3
JournalistBT New Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 19 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	Thanks, Sholiz, and to answer sfixmos question, people find bench shirts and other gear exciting for the simple fact that they use it, they lift more with it, they understand it and it pushes them beyond "natural" performance limitations. Very few people can be genetic freaks, many great benchers develop pec tears so that ends benching careers, but with the shirts, they can have longer lasting careers, the shirts are where the money is at, what everyone does and they can go beyond genetic limitations and since they use it, then it's exciting to them.They can now see the bench press as a game without limits, without a finish line and that drives them for more. You really need to live the lifestyle to understand the passion or have a mind that can relate to them in order to truly get it. For example, lots of things don't seem exciting or interesting for us, like for example perhaps one of your relatives never cared about powerbuiilding, but then you succeeded. They learned the effort, the mechanices, physics and the whole process behind it and now they love it... To reverse your question, it's like asking a bodybuilder "How does using drugs make bodybuilding exciting"? Yeah, sure, it's cheating if you compare it to drug free bodybuilders, but the freaks of the freaks are juiced to the gills, they go farther (in a different dimension) and they are the SHOW to many of the fans. I hear a lot more Ronnie Coleman fans then John Hansen (promoter of drug free bodybuilding).You know ECW or wrestling from the 1970s? We all have our own personal taste, that is all I can say and it requires empathy, an open mind, etc, to get it or want to try it.

05-03-2005, 01:07 AM	#5
JournalistBT New Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 19 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	yeah, the old debate "how far is too far".....Think about it, 10 ply gear, single ply gear, drug free bodybuilding or bodybuilding with the enhancements of drugs, what do they all have in common? All lifters are trying to make "STATEMENTS" Whether it's done for themselves, others, God, the journey, challenge or whatever the personal reason might be... You have to remember, lifters don't care what "the outside culture thinks" (or at least shouldn't care) they are living a dream, they are making huge sacrifices, it's not the external appearance of the result that matters so much as the inner battle of their emotions and pride to conquer a goal.... So, the only difference between a RAW bencher and a gear bencher that takes gear to the extreme is that one benches less weight with natural strength as the other likes to see how far they can go with all the enhancements in the world...... So what if it doesnt seem fair, it's a different game, plain and simple. Put, yourself into the shoes of an EXTREME 1,000lbs bencher... They get the gear, they get good, the gear on the market expands, their lifts do, it keeps the competition increasing and allows them to increase. They put their lives on the line and they make it work for them. It's still the attitude to be the best they can be. As for all the people who bash other lifters, or anything for that matter, need to look into themselves and see what is causing it. I believe that there is a dark cloudy mirror, a lost disowned shadow of themselves that is very unconscious screaming "I WANT TO BENCH 1000LBS WITH GEAR" Imagine the power, I would have, however, I can't confront my darkness so I will project it on the worlds best...... We all have a core reality that starts during these conversations, the problem that we run into is when we think our reality is the only one possible (in a debate) and anyone elses is a threat to our identity, character and soul. By being able to understand different hardcore cultures and respecting the attitudes gives us a better understanding of the world and the moment..... Regardless, speculation, controversy, debate can be fun, but it's unhealthy for the sport.... Besides, all the gear, we have a single ply champion during the BENCH AMERICA COMPETITIONS and we have a lot of contest coming up and we will see what happens. If your curious to know who the best RAW bencher is, it's not Gene (the 1000+) bencher, it's not crawford or Lattimer (both 800+ benchers) it's Mendy and then Kennelly.