Should you continue taking high GI carbs...

AYung · 12-28-2005, 10:57 PM

Should you continue taking high GI carbs, like dextrose, post workout when 1 week out of a contest?

I asked Jay Cutler his question, and he replied with: "no.. use oats or brown rice."

Just wondering what everyone elses opinions are.

Hybrid · 12-30-2005, 03:01 AM

My question is, why wouldn't you? Although I could see why you wouldn't want to have the possibilty of spiking your insulin levels too high or refilling your glycogen too much, post workout your stores are already pretty low, I'd imagine 40-60g of dextrose wouldn't hurt much.... However, I'd imagine Jay Cutler knows more than I do!!!

Interesting tho... That's for sure.

AYung · 01-02-2006, 08:12 PM

I would assume you want to deplete your glycogen stores for the final week before loading up on carbs the final day to really fill you up.

sulcop · 01-02-2006, 10:21 PM

OK, must chime in here... WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH WOULD YOU THINK JAY CUTLER WOULD KNOW MORE THEN ANYONE? This is not a shot a Jay, but one thing I have learned in 25 years of doing this is that there are more ignorant guys with 20" arms then 14" arms. I have had to listen to Jay at seminars before and he is knowledgable to a point, but he is not well educated. The differance between the two is simple. Jay knows what works for him, and even then it may not be the best way to do things, but he knows his body and excelles in chemical bodybuilding. I would NEVER take anything he had to say without looking into it first. When I say look into it I mean checking information through sources such as highly qualified coaches like Ian King, Charles Poloquin, Layne Norton, Charles Glass, Chris Aceto, Fred Hatfield, Will Brink any many others, but NEVER an IFBB pro just because he has won a title. Now with that said the GI carbs depend most on body stomatotype, endo, meso and ecto as well as the final week plan and your current b/f% and if you have any insulin sensitivity. So it depends on the individual. On another note NEVER EVER EVER EVER do the last week peaking advice you see in Flex or Muscle and Fiction it will not work unless your foster an artifical chemical environment that will allow it to work.

Sully

**b-boy** · 01-03-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulcop

OK, must chime in here... WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH WOULD YOU THINK JAY CUTLER WOULD KNOW MORE THEN ANYONE? This is not a shot a Jay, but one thing I have learned in 25 years of doing this is that there are more ignorant guys with 20" arms then 14" arms. I have had to listen to Jay at seminars before and he is knowledgable to a point, but he is not well educated. The differance between the two is simple. Jay knows what works for him, and even then it may not be the best way to do things, but he knows his body and excelles in chemical bodybuilding. I would NEVER take anything he had to say without looking into it first. When I say look into it I mean checking information through sources such as highly qualified coaches like Ian King, Charles Poloquin, Layne Norton, Charles Glass, Chris Aceto, Fred Hatfield, Will Brink any many others, but NEVER an IFBB pro just because he has won a title. Now with that said the GI carbs depend most on body stomatotype, endo, meso and ecto as well as the final week plan and your current b/f% and if you have any insulin sensitivity. So it depends on the individual. On another note NEVER EVER EVER EVER do the last week peaking advice you see in Flex or Muscle and Fiction it will not work unless your foster an artifical chemical environment that will allow it to work.

Sully

you have a pretty good point but you did mention chris Aceto, and where do you think jay got his info, most top prof. bodybuilders use a nutritionalist, jay use to be with chris! my prep guy does have me take in low glycemic carbs post workout during precontest, but like you said bro, everyone is diff.

sulcop · 01-04-2006, 12:16 AM

Point is that Jay got his information from Chris on and about himself. I am from MA and know Jay, worked out at the same gym with him and think he is a good person, but I also know he has been spoon fed everything for a long time. I have sat through seminars and have heard his advice. That advice would be excellent for a 240 pound steroid using genetic mutation like himself. Not so good for the 135 pound novice teen who asked the question and will now attempt to implement this advice to no avail. Now Chris is also a Yankee, compeated with him twice and found him to be a wealth of knowledge. He has a talent of looking beyone the question and forming the answer to the individual. His personality may need help at times (cocky) but his mind is right up there. He is also in a constant state of leaning. I have seen him at the SWISS emposium and at Ian Kings seminar in AZ a few years back. He also spent some time with John Berardi up in Canada so the guy is always reserching. That is who I would look for. Wil Brink is another, and I bet his arms are 15" max! Again no offense to Jay or anyone else but they are so busy thinking only of themselves that they have no reason to reserch anything that does not bebefit them. Take any advice with a grain of salt and always ask for there source of information.

Sully

sulcop · 01-04-2006, 12:19 AM

Oh and that also includes any advice I may offer

Sully

*Old Navy* · 01-06-2006, 06:21 PM

Sully is a man worth listening too. For those who have never heard of this modest bodybuilder, Sully has won his share of weight classes and Open competitions. He is pro qualified and is on the board of a natural bodybuilding federation. He promotes bodybuilding competitions in Massachusetts which are well attended and popular. He loves his sport and cares about his competitors. Bravo Zulu, Sully.

**NYCmitch25** · 01-06-2006, 06:34 PM

agreed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Navy

Sully is a man worth listening too. For those who have never heard of this modest bodybuilder, Sully has won his share of weight classes and Open competitions. He is pro qualified and is on the board of a natural bodybuilding federation. He promotes bodybuilding competitions in Massachusetts which are well attended and popular. He loves his sport and cares about his competitors. Bravo Zulu, Sully.

sulcop · 01-06-2006, 06:38 PM

Thanks guys. Now Scott where do I send that check? :zoom:

AYung · 01-08-2006, 10:21 PM

Sounds like good advice sulcop. Thanks!

**DJSTARER** · 01-17-2006, 01:20 AM

[quote=sulcop]there are more ignorant guys with 20" arms then 14" arms.
/QUOTE]

Soooooooo true.

**DJSTARER** · 01-17-2006, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulcop

there are more ignorant guys with 20" arms then 14" arms.

sooooo true

leanmass · 12-13-2006, 04:45 PM

I do not come often to this forum because i´m always at work, but i really admire what sulcop writes. I completly agree with him in every word. thanks for your knowledge, i have learned a lot with you.

*Cheryl Mitchell* · 12-16-2006, 12:47 AM

I second that emotion, Sulcop. A critical mind will always come out in control and on top. It's one thing to listen and learn from the best and yet another to listen to empirical reason and learn from science. Without understanding, knowledge is simply memorization. Great advice you give!!!

Maniak1027 · 12-30-2006, 10:26 PM

Even though I do believe in taking in high GI carbs for the most part, if you do a search over at PUBMED and at anabolicminds.com (search under BOBO) there are studies showing that the difference between taking in high gi and low gi carbs is almost nothing....point is after your training make sure to get carbs and protein in, PERIOD!

**Grunt76** · 12-30-2006, 11:25 PM

[quote=DJSTARER]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulcop

there are more ignorant guys with 20" arms then 14" arms.
/QUOTE]

Soooooooo true.

Yeah.

**Grunt76** · 12-30-2006, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniak1027

Even though I do believe in taking in high GI carbs for the most part, if you do a search over at PUBMED and at anabolicminds.com (search under BOBO) there are studies showing that the difference between taking in high gi and low gi carbs is almost nothing....point is after your training make sure to get carbs and protein in, PERIOD!

Good to see you posting bro, it's been a long time!

What you write, sadly, is false. One of the many times I got banned from Anabolicminds is when I proved Bobo wrong on that point. Of course my posts or the thread got all deleted, obviously.

For glycogen SYNTHESIS, there is no difference. It seems rate-limited. For TOTAL GLUCOSE UPTAKE by the muscle cell, there is a HUGE difference, high-GI carbs being enormously superior. Moreover, there is AMPLE evidence that an insulin spike a short time postworkout is extremely beneficial. It stops cortisol quick and good, and in the case that hGH levels are still high, IGF-1 is released from the liver. The insulin spike is much delayed and almost nonexistent with low-GI carbs.

Huge difference.

But I agree with Jay, if you are doing a carb-deplete, have some low GI carbs.

12-28-2005, 10:57 PM	#1
AYung IMPC Contestant Join Date: May 2005 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada Posts: 2,266 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 37	Should you continue taking high GI carbs... Should you continue taking high GI carbs, like dextrose, post workout when 1 week out of a contest? I asked Jay Cutler his question, and he replied with: "no.. use oats or brown rice." Just wondering what everyone elses opinions are. __________________ Clean Bulking Journal http://www.ironmass.com/showthread.php?t=9546 Max Lifts Bench: 155 x 6 Deadlift: 315 x 6 Squat: 245 x 6 1 Rep Max Lifts Bench: 180 - Tested Deadlift: 365 - Tested Squat: 285 - Estimated TOTAL: 831 @ 156lbs Eddie Guerrero (1967-2005, R.I.P.) You'll always be loved and remembered.

12-30-2005, 03:01 AM	#2
Hybrid IMPC Contestant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gibsonia PA Posts: 827 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 13	My question is, why wouldn't you? Although I could see why you wouldn't want to have the possibilty of spiking your insulin levels too high or refilling your glycogen too much, post workout your stores are already pretty low, I'd imagine 40-60g of dextrose wouldn't hurt much.... However, I'd imagine Jay Cutler knows more than I do!!! Interesting tho... That's for sure. __________________ If you even dream about beating me you'd better wake up and apologize - Muhammad Ali

01-02-2006, 08:12 PM	#3
AYung IMPC Contestant Join Date: May 2005 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada Posts: 2,266 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 37	I would assume you want to deplete your glycogen stores for the final week before loading up on carbs the final day to really fill you up. __________________ Clean Bulking Journal http://www.ironmass.com/showthread.php?t=9546 Max Lifts Bench: 155 x 6 Deadlift: 315 x 6 Squat: 245 x 6 1 Rep Max Lifts Bench: 180 - Tested Deadlift: 365 - Tested Squat: 285 - Estimated TOTAL: 831 @ 156lbs Eddie Guerrero (1967-2005, R.I.P.) You'll always be loved and remembered.

01-02-2006, 10:21 PM	#4
sulcop Pro Stature Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cape Cod MA Posts: 155 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	OK, must chime in here... WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH WOULD YOU THINK JAY CUTLER WOULD KNOW MORE THEN ANYONE? This is not a shot a Jay, but one thing I have learned in 25 years of doing this is that there are more ignorant guys with 20" arms then 14" arms. I have had to listen to Jay at seminars before and he is knowledgable to a point, but he is not well educated. The differance between the two is simple. Jay knows what works for him, and even then it may not be the best way to do things, but he knows his body and excelles in chemical bodybuilding. I would NEVER take anything he had to say without looking into it first. When I say look into it I mean checking information through sources such as highly qualified coaches like Ian King, Charles Poloquin, Layne Norton, Charles Glass, Chris Aceto, Fred Hatfield, Will Brink any many others, but NEVER an IFBB pro just because he has won a title. Now with that said the GI carbs depend most on body stomatotype, endo, meso and ecto as well as the final week plan and your current b/f% and if you have any insulin sensitivity. So it depends on the individual. On another note NEVER EVER EVER EVER do the last week peaking advice you see in Flex or Muscle and Fiction it will not work unless your foster an artifical chemical environment that will allow it to work. Sully __________________ www.SOAbodybuilding.com

01-04-2006, 12:16 AM	#6
sulcop Pro Stature Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cape Cod MA Posts: 155 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	Point is that Jay got his information from Chris on and about himself. I am from MA and know Jay, worked out at the same gym with him and think he is a good person, but I also know he has been spoon fed everything for a long time. I have sat through seminars and have heard his advice. That advice would be excellent for a 240 pound steroid using genetic mutation like himself. Not so good for the 135 pound novice teen who asked the question and will now attempt to implement this advice to no avail. Now Chris is also a Yankee, compeated with him twice and found him to be a wealth of knowledge. He has a talent of looking beyone the question and forming the answer to the individual. His personality may need help at times (cocky) but his mind is right up there. He is also in a constant state of leaning. I have seen him at the SWISS emposium and at Ian Kings seminar in AZ a few years back. He also spent some time with John Berardi up in Canada so the guy is always reserching. That is who I would look for. Wil Brink is another, and I bet his arms are 15" max! Again no offense to Jay or anyone else but they are so busy thinking only of themselves that they have no reason to reserch anything that does not bebefit them. Take any advice with a grain of salt and always ask for there source of information. Sully __________________ www.SOAbodybuilding.com

01-04-2006, 12:19 AM	#7
sulcop Pro Stature Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cape Cod MA Posts: 155 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	Oh and that also includes any advice I may offer Sully __________________ www.SOAbodybuilding.com

01-06-2006, 06:21 PM	#8
Old Navy NGA & IDFA Master Pro Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 533 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 17	Sully is a man worth listening too. For those who have never heard of this modest bodybuilder, Sully has won his share of weight classes and Open competitions. He is pro qualified and is on the board of a natural bodybuilding federation. He promotes bodybuilding competitions in Massachusetts which are well attended and popular. He loves his sport and cares about his competitors. Bravo Zulu, Sully. __________________ Scott "Old Navy" Hults, NFPT-CPT; NGA-CPT FAME, NGA & IDFA Natural Master Pro Bodybuilder FAME, NGA & OCB Contest Judge www.BodyBuildingSenior.com

01-06-2006, 06:38 PM	#10
sulcop Pro Stature Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cape Cod MA Posts: 155 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 4	Thanks guys. Now Scott where do I send that check? :zoom: __________________ www.SOAbodybuilding.com

01-08-2006, 10:21 PM	#11
AYung IMPC Contestant Join Date: May 2005 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada Posts: 2,266 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 37	Sounds like good advice sulcop. Thanks! __________________ Clean Bulking Journal http://www.ironmass.com/showthread.php?t=9546 Max Lifts Bench: 155 x 6 Deadlift: 315 x 6 Squat: 245 x 6 1 Rep Max Lifts Bench: 180 - Tested Deadlift: 365 - Tested Squat: 285 - Estimated TOTAL: 831 @ 156lbs Eddie Guerrero (1967-2005, R.I.P.) You'll always be loved and remembered.

01-17-2006, 01:20 AM	#12
DJSTARER Writing Staff Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: State College, PA Posts: 3,914 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 109	[quote=sulcop]there are more ignorant guys with 20" arms then 14" arms. /QUOTE] Soooooooo true. __________________ My philosophies on training: "Extreme training yields extreme results" "Just because you can, does not mean you should" "The best program is the one you are not doing" Penn State Powerlifting-181 lb weightclass PGA Professional of America Current Stats: 474 Squat 601 Deadlift 320 Bench Goals for next training cycle: Total 1400 in competition

12-13-2006, 04:45 PM	#14
leanmass IMPC Contestant Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Lisbon PORTUGAL Posts: 133 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 8	I do not come often to this forum because i´m always at work, but i really admire what sulcop writes. I completly agree with him in every word. thanks for your knowledge, i have learned a lot with you.

12-16-2006, 12:47 AM	#15
Cheryl Mitchell IFBB Pro Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	I second that emotion, Sulcop. A critical mind will always come out in control and on top. It's one thing to listen and learn from the best and yet another to listen to empirical reason and learn from science. Without understanding, knowledge is simply memorization. Great advice you give!!! __________________ Cheryl Mitchell WNSO Pro Muscle & Figure www.wowFAME.com

12-30-2006, 10:26 PM	#16
Maniak1027 Amateur Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 29 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 0	Even though I do believe in taking in high GI carbs for the most part, if you do a search over at PUBMED and at anabolicminds.com (search under BOBO) there are studies showing that the difference between taking in high gi and low gi carbs is almost nothing....point is after your training make sure to get carbs and protein in, PERIOD!