Video game console wars

navarone · 11-22-2006, 07:16 PM

haha the system wars are retarded... everyone says that the ps3 is top of the graphic line.. well i have news for everyone... sry to be the one to tell u this, but the graphics go as high as 1080p right now, so it doesnt matter what they promise, 1080p is as high as it goes. Sony has no edge, lol. Xbox 360 and sony both have the same capabilities when it comes to graphics, and 95% of the ppl who own the nxt gen systems.. cant even play them to the capabilities they are intended to be played at... because right now.. and correct me if im wrong, but for a decent sized tv with true high definition (1080p) is roughly 5000$. You can get tvs with high def at 1080i, but its not the same. Can anyone guess what tv can play the ps3 to its full potential? Thats right... the sony 60inch sxrd (bravia models).. and the cost? 8000$-10000$ dollars. Figures sony would produce a system that NEEDS their tv to be experianced at the lvl they promise. If you have one... congrats.

Sony however, does have a lil bit of an advatage with the blu-ray, due to its capabilites of the disks holding up to 5X as much info.. But does this mean better game play? No it doesnt. Sony hasnt even worked out all the bugs of the bluray either.. nor have they fixed there controller problems. The 6-point controller had to have the rumble taken out due to comptability issues. The full features that were promisedto be included with the system,.. were hacked and chopped.

If anyone remembers when the ps2 came out.. it was supposed to be this great system with everything and anything in it. Although right before release what happened...? THEY CUT OUT HAVE THE SHIT IN IT!! Sony has done this repeadiatly.

Ok.. sorry but im just angry with all this shit i hear about how the ps3 is god like and blah blah blah. Everyone has there own opinion yes.. however if you look at the technical stats on the xbox 360, ps3, and nintendo WII, they are all pretty similar (with the exception of the Wii's non high def and lower cell processor). Microsoft did this year what sony did last... came out first, lol. If you break down the 360 and ps3.. the only real diff is the type of prossesor used, and the blu-ray drive. Microsoft released a hd dvd player when the ps3 came out, or some time before it even. Does the blu-ray really make the ps3 worth all the extra money?.. well if they knew how to use it in the form of ps3 games then yes.. however they havent figured that out yet.. Its like having the best weapons in the world.. but now knowing how to use them.. what sense does that make?

Alright, im done, got it off my chest, lol. Sorry if i offended anyone( dont see how i would./. but some ppl are pretty sensitive).

This is just my take on it... everyone has their own opinions.

**davtown** · 11-22-2006, 08:10 PM

I think this should clear a few things up
http://www.dailymotion.com/cluster/a...s-nintendo-wii

**Grunt76** · 11-22-2006, 08:13 PM

I thought there weren't even any TV's with true 1080p?

But there is a difference between chips that can do the same resolution, because FSAA (Full Screen Anti-Aliasing) settings can be improved and improved and improved. There is just about no limit to the amount of graphic processing power you can throw at any game and it will look better.

**romanaz** · 11-22-2006, 09:43 PM

there is NO true 1080p on the market currently. Do you know how unbelievably expensive that is? That 10,000 dollars for sony's top of the line TV, hardly even touches what a REAL 1080p is. All that TV is, is a 1080i that doubles the signal and 'runs' it at 1080p. Its a joke. Also, 1080p isn't even on TV stations in the US, because its got twice the datarate as 1080i. If you go to CES next year, I'm sure you can see some 1080p TV's, but they are way to expensive and the only thing that uses it will be ps3.

But, I will agree, 1080p looks AMAZING next to 1080i. Someone had a booth running with the same movie playing on 1080i and 1080p.

Also, blu-ray is going to fail. Its CD is smaller then DVD's currently so new factories and equipment have to be made for it, while HD-DVD is the same size and will (theoretically) cost less to make.

The porn industry will decide most likely, but I say HD-DVD will win. Its another case of BetaMax vs VHS. Blu-ray is better but won't win.

Vegeto · 11-23-2006, 02:02 AM

I agree for the most part that the graphics between 360 and PS3 will be pretty much the same, although I would consider that PS3 will never need to take any graphical shortcuts taken on account of disk space issues in larger games, but I don't think there will be any highly notable difference until perhaps 5+ years down the line, if ever at all. Something to think about though.

Xbox360's graphics card may be worth noting, I have heard that it is supperior by a small margin to PS3's.

A lot of xbox fanboys argue that Cell is not meant for graphics and is meant for other proccessing jobs, this may end up to be true, although I think that may also mean that ps3 specific games may actually have a higher potential for complex gameplay and in-game action sequences/physics. This is really on the shoulders of the game developers to make the most of each system's potential. Once again, no real differences between 360 and PS3 on this until a few years have gone by at least.

Nintendo wii? Well, everything is in that controller. Some people think it's really great. I'd like to try it too. My scheptical side tells me it just a pumped up version of the old nintendo powerglove, but I hear it's actually quite good. Still, as a customer, I would rather they make this controller for Xbox360 and PS3, and just ditch the wii. Ya'rly. Still, if you bought a PS3 or an Xbox360, it's not a huge stretch to throw a little extra cash in on a wii. I'm sure they are counting on that too.

I'll probably get a PS3 in a year or perhaps a little less or more. I may instead get an Xbox360, if blueray fails, or just for the game developing software that microsoft is releasing for 360. From what I hear, it's not too tough to make your own games, even games up to par with professionally made Xbox360 games with time and effort. You pay 99$ a year, and constantly recieve updates of tools and graphics to help you make games. They make it sound like people at all levels of game knowlege can use it, and it will be good enough to make a demo game to 'pitch' to a game company, or even make a whole game. That sounds like some really rewarding fun to me. I may buy 360 for this alone.

**romanaz** · 11-23-2006, 04:37 AM

if you know anything, or do a little research, the cell processor is incredibly hard to code for. I'm sure skel can vouch for that.

Vegeto · 11-23-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romanaz

if you know anything, or do a little research, the cell processor is incredibly hard to code for. I'm sure skel can vouch for that.

That's not my problem

It will be interesting to see what they have to do to become more efficent though. I'm not making my decision on what to buy for a year, so I have time to watch things unfold.

Nintendo wii
This is why I'm not so sure that their controller will revolutionize gaming (lil badas, lol)-
http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/948.html
ya'rly, they already did this crap, and it wasn't that special then. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's way more advanced now, but obviously not revolutionary. They should have just made that controller for PS3 and Xbox360, IMO.

navarone · 11-23-2006, 06:09 PM

Well... first off on the note of 1080P... you are correct.. there isnt a "true" 1080p tv out yet.

What the 1080P tv's that are realsed do, is have a much higher refresh rate, giving it that look and feel of being more powerful, and have much deeper, richer blacks and a greater shading rate.

Romanaz is correct in the fact that no signal in the us, canada, or ne where else pumps out tv at a 1080p rate.. due to the fact that the technology just isnt there. Everything is broadcast at 1080i, because thats what they perfected.. well.. come close to anyways. So what you have to ask yourself is.. i own a ps3... is it really worth it to pay 8000$+ for a tv that will be only usable ( i use the term losely) to its full potential on a ps3?

Sure in maybe 5+ years we will all see the full potential released, but that is a huge maybe. The graphics can be constantly improved yes... but only on minor details, such as more realistic looking leaves, or mustaches that move in the wind. Im sorry but if im playing final fantasy or something, im most likly not concentrating on her eye lashes and the fact that they look so realistic.

The blu-ray, its a hit or a miss really. Sure it can hold 5X's the data.. but that doesnt mean anything really. Take for example xenosaga episode 2.. its 2 disks.. but incredibly short in length. The 1st one was longer and was only 1 disk. So whats that mean for games on blu-ray.. even longer CG images. Its going to cost a fortune to produce games, which in turn makes the games for consumers more expensive.

Then.. if you wanna buy a bluray movie... its only gunna be compatible on your ps3.. or your 2000$ blu-ray dvd player. hddvd is already out there, and its been proven to work. They arent even sure what the potential of the bluray is, if there is any at all. They slapped together a bunch of fancy next gen technology, and put on a high price for it. They dont know the potential.. so who knows we could all be blown away and have something the consumer doesnt know about yet.

The 360 and the ps3.. have different processors yes.. but one is more powerful for graphics(360) and one is better for data(ps3) The ps3 allows you to browse the net and such.. meaning they need to dedicate some power to that.

All in all, i think the 360 will come out on top.. unless sony has something up there sleve. For now.. ill hold off on buying a ps3 and wait to see what happens in the next few months.

**skelooth** · 11-23-2006, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romanaz

if you know anything, or do a little research, the cell processor is incredibly hard to code for. I'm sure skel can vouch for that.

I can't really vouch for that. The only true "issue" I see with programming for a multi cell processor is coming up with a C++ compiler for it. The system kernel should actually do most of what's needed in terms of spawning which process where, etc.

As for the systems:
Xbox has always been easier to program for programmatically because it's API is (not surprisingly) closely related to DirectX. MS and Sony both take different approaches towards high end gaming. MS's seemingly advocates lending most of the graphics to be done by a GPU, where as sony's systems have always had more of an emphasis on processor power. The problem with emphasis on processor power, is that when porting games over who need certain GPU features, they need to be emulated/rewritten, most likely at a loss of performance.

I'll be honest, I don't know the exact specs of any of the systems right now, but I will say this: Both sony and xbox systems are very similiar in power. The true difference between the systems will be the games that come out for it. Hardware is nothing without software to run on it.

As for the high def TVs... I'd say that's pretty over rated. How many times have you honestly looked at your relatively modern tv and said "wow this resolution sucks". With proper rendering technicques / anti aliasing, jaggies are unheard of even at low resolutions. The real power imo is dependent on physics, model skinning, texturing, poly counts, etc. Consoles have moved to an era where the hardware is not going to be a constraint for developers anymore. Now let's hope there's still some innovation and talent left in the industry.

On the issue of Bluray technology.... is there really a NEED? Think about it. You can fit 3 hours of high definition video on a video... what is it, like 6gb or something? WTF are they going to put on there that they need more space?

navarone · 11-23-2006, 07:30 PM

I couldnt agree more with you skel on the issue about games.

Your system will only be as good as the games that come out for it... period.
You can have the greatest console in the world.. top of the line everything, but if there arent any decent games.. whats the point in having it? Sure you can have graphics out of this world, but would u really wanna play "peel the banana" for hours on end.. because you can see every strand and actual potassium particles?.

I think it will boil down to exactly that.. which company makes what games.. and who owns what franchises. Sony has final fantasy, xbox has halo. As far as developers go, Sony has square enix, which is a multi-million dollar company and allows for great engeniring(damn i cannot spell today.. too lazy, lol.

Right now though.. if you look at games that are released, Xbox's Gears of War is ONLY on the 360... and its the best game released to date in terms of F.P.S. Now on the other side of the fence, when final fantasy 13 comes out, its only gunna be released on the ps3.

All in all in the end.. sony will win for RPG'S( due to sqaure soft/enix) and xbox will win for what its best engeneered for.. sports and FPS

Vegeto · 11-23-2006, 11:08 PM

Yeah, I can agree to that. It's all in the games. It seems that the target consumer for both systems is the FPS guys right now. It used to be that the platformers were where the gaming started at a launch, (from what I remember), but now FPS is really a large demographic. I like platformer/rpg hybrids like Jak1,2,3 and I also like some fighting games. Whatever wins that war will be the counsel for me, but it's just not an important demographic for them right now.

As far as game progaming is concerned, these counsels are supposed to be around for 8-10 years, so there is going to be plenty of time for developers to figure things out.

**skelooth** · 11-24-2006, 12:34 AM

They'll churn out new consoles before you can say Peanut Butter

**NYCmitch25** · 11-24-2006, 02:06 AM

bunch of nerds

skel get a new avatar!

**skelooth** · 11-24-2006, 02:41 AM

Why?

**madman911** · 11-24-2006, 03:00 AM

I like Skel's avatar.

**NYCmitch25** · 11-24-2006, 12:06 PM

Holloween is over & your still in costume. lol

11-22-2006, 07:16 PM	#1
navarone Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 930 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 52	Video game console wars haha the system wars are retarded... everyone says that the ps3 is top of the graphic line.. well i have news for everyone... sry to be the one to tell u this, but the graphics go as high as 1080p right now, so it doesnt matter what they promise, 1080p is as high as it goes. Sony has no edge, lol. Xbox 360 and sony both have the same capabilities when it comes to graphics, and 95% of the ppl who own the nxt gen systems.. cant even play them to the capabilities they are intended to be played at... because right now.. and correct me if im wrong, but for a decent sized tv with true high definition (1080p) is roughly 5000$. You can get tvs with high def at 1080i, but its not the same. Can anyone guess what tv can play the ps3 to its full potential? Thats right... the sony 60inch sxrd (bravia models).. and the cost? 8000$-10000$ dollars. Figures sony would produce a system that NEEDS their tv to be experianced at the lvl they promise. If you have one... congrats. Sony however, does have a lil bit of an advatage with the blu-ray, due to its capabilites of the disks holding up to 5X as much info.. But does this mean better game play? No it doesnt. Sony hasnt even worked out all the bugs of the bluray either.. nor have they fixed there controller problems. The 6-point controller had to have the rumble taken out due to comptability issues. The full features that were promisedto be included with the system,.. were hacked and chopped. If anyone remembers when the ps2 came out.. it was supposed to be this great system with everything and anything in it. Although right before release what happened...? THEY CUT OUT HAVE THE SHIT IN IT!! Sony has done this repeadiatly. Ok.. sorry but im just angry with all this shit i hear about how the ps3 is god like and blah blah blah. Everyone has there own opinion yes.. however if you look at the technical stats on the xbox 360, ps3, and nintendo WII, they are all pretty similar (with the exception of the Wii's non high def and lower cell processor). Microsoft did this year what sony did last... came out first, lol. If you break down the 360 and ps3.. the only real diff is the type of prossesor used, and the blu-ray drive. Microsoft released a hd dvd player when the ps3 came out, or some time before it even. Does the blu-ray really make the ps3 worth all the extra money?.. well if they knew how to use it in the form of ps3 games then yes.. however they havent figured that out yet.. Its like having the best weapons in the world.. but now knowing how to use them.. what sense does that make? Alright, im done, got it off my chest, lol. Sorry if i offended anyone( dont see how i would./. but some ppl are pretty sensitive). This is just my take on it... everyone has their own opinions. __________________ Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated Stats: Weight: Between 200-205 depending on the day Bench: 265X5 atm. Squat: 360X5 atm.. Higest Ever 435 Deadlift: 420X3 Waist: 34 Arms: 17.5 cold . Pics Finally! http://www.ironmass.com/f16/nav-s-1-...ulk-12947.html

11-22-2006, 08:10 PM	#2
davtown OM NOM NOM NOM Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 2,360 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 128	I think this should clear a few things up http://www.dailymotion.com/cluster/a...s-nintendo-wii __________________ --Training Journal-- current/goal D: 350/380 S: 280/300 B: 235/260

11-23-2006, 02:02 AM	#5
Vegeto blameless sinner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 803 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 15	I agree for the most part that the graphics between 360 and PS3 will be pretty much the same, although I would consider that PS3 will never need to take any graphical shortcuts taken on account of disk space issues in larger games, but I don't think there will be any highly notable difference until perhaps 5+ years down the line, if ever at all. Something to think about though. Xbox360's graphics card may be worth noting, I have heard that it is supperior by a small margin to PS3's. A lot of xbox fanboys argue that Cell is not meant for graphics and is meant for other proccessing jobs, this may end up to be true, although I think that may also mean that ps3 specific games may actually have a higher potential for complex gameplay and in-game action sequences/physics. This is really on the shoulders of the game developers to make the most of each system's potential. Once again, no real differences between 360 and PS3 on this until a few years have gone by at least. Nintendo wii? Well, everything is in that controller. Some people think it's really great. I'd like to try it too. My scheptical side tells me it just a pumped up version of the old nintendo powerglove, but I hear it's actually quite good. Still, as a customer, I would rather they make this controller for Xbox360 and PS3, and just ditch the wii. Ya'rly. Still, if you bought a PS3 or an Xbox360, it's not a huge stretch to throw a little extra cash in on a wii. I'm sure they are counting on that too. I'll probably get a PS3 in a year or perhaps a little less or more. I may instead get an Xbox360, if blueray fails, or just for the game developing software that microsoft is releasing for 360. From what I hear, it's not too tough to make your own games, even games up to par with professionally made Xbox360 games with time and effort. You pay 99$ a year, and constantly recieve updates of tools and graphics to help you make games. They make it sound like people at all levels of game knowlege can use it, and it will be good enough to make a demo game to 'pitch' to a game company, or even make a whole game. That sounds like some really rewarding fun to me. I may buy 360 for this alone. __________________ ______________ ________________ ......Busy Training...... __________________ ________________ __________________

11-23-2006, 06:09 PM	#8
navarone Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 930 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 52	Well... first off on the note of 1080P... you are correct.. there isnt a "true" 1080p tv out yet. What the 1080P tv's that are realsed do, is have a much higher refresh rate, giving it that look and feel of being more powerful, and have much deeper, richer blacks and a greater shading rate. Romanaz is correct in the fact that no signal in the us, canada, or ne where else pumps out tv at a 1080p rate.. due to the fact that the technology just isnt there. Everything is broadcast at 1080i, because thats what they perfected.. well.. come close to anyways. So what you have to ask yourself is.. i own a ps3... is it really worth it to pay 8000$+ for a tv that will be only usable ( i use the term losely) to its full potential on a ps3? Sure in maybe 5+ years we will all see the full potential released, but that is a huge maybe. The graphics can be constantly improved yes... but only on minor details, such as more realistic looking leaves, or mustaches that move in the wind. Im sorry but if im playing final fantasy or something, im most likly not concentrating on her eye lashes and the fact that they look so realistic. The blu-ray, its a hit or a miss really. Sure it can hold 5X's the data.. but that doesnt mean anything really. Take for example xenosaga episode 2.. its 2 disks.. but incredibly short in length. The 1st one was longer and was only 1 disk. So whats that mean for games on blu-ray.. even longer CG images. Its going to cost a fortune to produce games, which in turn makes the games for consumers more expensive. Then.. if you wanna buy a bluray movie... its only gunna be compatible on your ps3.. or your 2000$ blu-ray dvd player. hddvd is already out there, and its been proven to work. They arent even sure what the potential of the bluray is, if there is any at all. They slapped together a bunch of fancy next gen technology, and put on a high price for it. They dont know the potential.. so who knows we could all be blown away and have something the consumer doesnt know about yet. The 360 and the ps3.. have different processors yes.. but one is more powerful for graphics(360) and one is better for data(ps3) The ps3 allows you to browse the net and such.. meaning they need to dedicate some power to that. All in all, i think the 360 will come out on top.. unless sony has something up there sleve. For now.. ill hold off on buying a ps3 and wait to see what happens in the next few months. __________________ Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated Stats: Weight: Between 200-205 depending on the day Bench: 265X5 atm. Squat: 360X5 atm.. Higest Ever 435 Deadlift: 420X3 Waist: 34 Arms: 17.5 cold . Pics Finally! http://www.ironmass.com/f16/nav-s-1-...ulk-12947.html

11-23-2006, 07:30 PM	#10
navarone Pro Stature Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 930 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 52	I couldnt agree more with you skel on the issue about games. Your system will only be as good as the games that come out for it... period. You can have the greatest console in the world.. top of the line everything, but if there arent any decent games.. whats the point in having it? Sure you can have graphics out of this world, but would u really wanna play "peel the banana" for hours on end.. because you can see every strand and actual potassium particles?. I think it will boil down to exactly that.. which company makes what games.. and who owns what franchises. Sony has final fantasy, xbox has halo. As far as developers go, Sony has square enix, which is a multi-million dollar company and allows for great engeniring(damn i cannot spell today.. too lazy, lol. Right now though.. if you look at games that are released, Xbox's Gears of War is ONLY on the 360... and its the best game released to date in terms of F.P.S. Now on the other side of the fence, when final fantasy 13 comes out, its only gunna be released on the ps3. All in all in the end.. sony will win for RPG'S( due to sqaure soft/enix) and xbox will win for what its best engeneered for.. sports and FPS __________________ Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated Stats: Weight: Between 200-205 depending on the day Bench: 265X5 atm. Squat: 360X5 atm.. Higest Ever 435 Deadlift: 420X3 Waist: 34 Arms: 17.5 cold . Pics Finally! http://www.ironmass.com/f16/nav-s-1-...ulk-12947.html

11-23-2006, 11:08 PM	#11
Vegeto blameless sinner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 803 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 15	Yeah, I can agree to that. It's all in the games. It seems that the target consumer for both systems is the FPS guys right now. It used to be that the platformers were where the gaming started at a launch, (from what I remember), but now FPS is really a large demographic. I like platformer/rpg hybrids like Jak1,2,3 and I also like some fighting games. Whatever wins that war will be the counsel for me, but it's just not an important demographic for them right now. As far as game progaming is concerned, these counsels are supposed to be around for 8-10 years, so there is going to be plenty of time for developers to figure things out. __________________ ______________ ________________ ......Busy Training...... __________________ ________________ __________________

11-24-2006, 12:34 AM	#12
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,203 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	They'll churn out new consoles before you can say Peanut Butter __________________ http://loseover100lbs.com/misc-f7.html

11-24-2006, 02:06 AM	#13
NYCmitch25 Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,102 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	bunch of nerds skel get a new avatar! __________________ "I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds." - Rollins

11-24-2006, 02:41 AM	#14
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,203 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 158	Why? __________________ http://loseover100lbs.com/misc-f7.html

11-24-2006, 03:00 AM	#15
madman911 Metamorphosizing Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Area Posts: 1,534 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 61	I like Skel's avatar. __________________ Millennium Sport Technologies Sponsored Athlete http://www.millenniumsport.net IMPC 2006 Novice Division Champ IMPC 2007 Open Division Champ Never underestimate the power of the bandana.

11-24-2006, 12:06 PM	#16
NYCmitch25 Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,102 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 51	Holloween is over & your still in costume. lol __________________ "I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds." - Rollins