I feel bad for people trying to lose weight who are my age....

**skelooth** · 01-08-2007, 04:30 AM

I can really relate. It's like everyone just shields reality from themselves until one day it's right there and they can't hide anymore. THE WORLD IS SHALLOW, and if you don't look good physically no one will give the "inside you" a moments chance.

It's just so sad, because there are so many people I have talked to, or know... that just feel like being in shape is the begin all end all. They've realized how ****ed up the world is, and now they are just as ****ed up in their heads as I am about it... only in many cases I am way ahead of the game and started much longer before them.

It's sad because I know how they feel... the inadequacy they feel... the feeling that they just can't change enough, and that they just can't be good enough unless they look like someone from a magazine.

It's just so ****in sad, and partly it's sad because it's true...

**Jayhawkk** · 01-08-2007, 12:38 PM

Well I agree and yet disagree as well. Being in shape now means more about living life to its fullest without feeling like shit. My back is so out of whack right now that standing up to do the dishes requires recovery time. Being able to keep up with your kids or plays some sports every now and again is nice. Living your later years outside of a walker and oxygen tanks is a plus too.

While none of this is a guarentee you do have a much better shot being in decent shape rather than out of shape. Although your points of people being shallow and doors not opening due to the way a person looks are valid.

**NYCmitch25** · 01-08-2007, 01:35 PM

western diet + desk job + laziness = overweight americans

**Sholiz** · 01-08-2007, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCmitch25

western diet + desk job + laziness = overweight americans

'the american dream'

**skelooth** · 01-08-2007, 02:52 PM

And a sad dream it is. It's more of a nightmare. We're a country of fatties...

ja_ke · 01-08-2007, 03:06 PM

I know what you're saying. I used to be 5' 10" 275 lbs with basically no friends but a computer. Then I got down to 165 and all of a sudden I had a TON of friends which basically led to me being depressed for about 6 months. Then I started working out and now 2 years later I am happy with myself, but for 2 reasons; 1. I now could really careless less and do pretty much everything I do for myself an dnot for others. 2. I am happiest with my body I have ever been. Maybe sound shallow, but it isn't like anyone ever sees me with my shirt off besides my girlfriend. It isn't for others I am just pround of myself that I have came so far. That was kind of a rant and got somewhat off topic. I guess I am just trying to say I agree and to do things for youself not others. Not <i>everyone</i> is shallow.

**madman911** · 01-08-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

And a sad dream it is. It's more of a nightmare. We're a country of fatties...

Exactly, which is why I think your observation that being fat makes you a pariah is more in your head than a reality. I've known plenty of overweight guys who were very popular, considered the life of the party, and got good looking chicks. Our society is definitely tougher on overweight women than it is on overweight men. Ever notice how all the fat husbands on sitcoms have hot thin wives... it's okay for dudes to be fat, but women have to be thin to be considered sexual on any level.

It is now true that overweight people are in the majority. Sure, people may treat fat people different in certain arenas... like if you go to Abercrombie and Fitch, the sales staff is likely to ignore a fat guy and run to help a skinny ass dude. But, who the ***** cares about something like that anyway... I prefer to be left alone wherever I go. Even if you're in great shape, women aren't going to start running over and lathering you up with attention. I see lots of women who are 8s or 9s with boyfriends who are fat, dumpy and out of shape.

If you're thin, you'll get more attention, but is it positive attention? Not in my experience. When I was fat, nobody every walked up to me and said "you don't look healthy, maybe you should lose some weight". When I was contest prepping and ripped, every day people walked up to me and said "you're too thin, you look sick, you need to eat more". My colleagues would look at me like I was a martian when I'd opt to eat my restricted diet and refuse to go out to lunch with them. I felt like more of an outcast and loner when I was working my ass of to be in elite condition than I did when I was 24% body fat and had a 38" waist. Don't think that achieving a great body will change your life for the better, because it won't make that big of a difference. If anything people will start to paint you as a self-obsessed narcissist. It's weird, everyone seems to worship the ideal physiques portrayed in the media, but when faced with someone with that physique in real life, people seem to be confused with what you are... like they just met a real life sasquatch.

The bottom line is that you have to be accepting of yourself. If you can't accept yourself, than you cannot emit a vibe that makes others feel that you are worthy of their acceptance.

**skelooth** · 01-08-2007, 03:44 PM

That's not really what I'm talking about, but I know exactly where you're saying.

Wether having a great body changes your life or not wasn't the point. The point is that I feel a LOT of sympathy for a lot of people I know. There's a few people in particular (girls) who seem to have just realized in their mid 20s "omg, I'm so fat that no half way descent guy will even touch me". I can literally just FEEL the horrible frustration they are going through, and I can relate to the feelings so much that it hurts.

If I were to put it as an analogy, it's like... sure you might feel bad for someone who's dog died, but if you lost a dog yourself you will really understand and even feel their pain that much more.

What's worse is the feeling of urgency and despair. There's like 4 people I talk to right now who are just doing cardio every single day and damn near starving themselves. And they're doing it for all the wrong reasons much like I have in the past. It's like watching a repeat of a horror movie.

edit:

For the sake of arguement. Now that I've put on a few pounds again, I will attest that there is a stark difference in the way I am treated by the opposite sex. Muscle Bound Patrick = Girls will want to be my friend. Chubby patrick (which looks even worse with muscle underneath imo) = avoidance at all costs. This is not in my head, it's in THEIRS. It's their genetic programming.

**builtbeast** · 01-08-2007, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCmitch25

western diet + desk job + laziness = overweight americans

Love the avy. She has a nice rack.

And I agree, people are too superficial.

**madman911** · 01-08-2007, 06:14 PM

Yeah, part of the reason I missed your point is that I guess I'm old... the way the college kids think is way different from the way we over-thirty people think. In my world, being overweight is more accepted as "the way it is". A bodybuilder over the age of thirty is viewed by their contemporaries as an abnormality, as someone bucking the system... a rebel. Once you're part of the 'married with children' crowd most people can't imagine why you'd bother exerting the discipline and effort required be in great shape. The definition of "great shape" also changes as you get older. If you're over 30, you have a gym membership, you workout at least once a week, and your gut doesn't completely hang over your pants, then you get to say "hey, I'm in great shape."

Vegeto · 01-08-2007, 09:15 PM

As a natural ecto-type, I don't share the same problems, I have my own. I have to say though, it's complicated and sad. On the one hand, if there was total acceptance of people regardless of physcial shape, there would be no motivation for people to improve themselves. On the other side, people who cannot change (the right way) are even more misserable because of the lack of acceptance.

All at the same time, we have a very difficult standard to live up to, while we are being sold everything that leads to the opposite of that standard. Buy MacDonalds, but don't be a fat. C'mon world, stop being such a b1tch. Have you seen the Burger King commercials that make healthy food out to be 'chick food'? Yeah sure, if you don't eat greasy crap, your not a real 'guy'.

The only way is to find your own standards and live up to them. You can't please everybody, but I guess you can try if you want.

Be sure though, the natural selection process is there for a reason. Those who can't be strong, smart, or successful in some way are not meant to have children. Those who can play the game successfully are those who's children will have the best shot at playing the game successfully. Honestly, I don't want fat kids, so I am less likely to consider a girl who is fat and comes from a fat family. Why would I want to do that to my kids? But hey, if a girl can get it under control and shows she has a mind that can overcome her body, then I may consider it. A mind that strong is surely good genetic material for my kids. It's not always 'shallow', nor does it have anything to do with whether I have the right to judge or not. It's just not right to give birth to kids who you know are going to be pathetic, no matter how much you want to live the 'american dream'.

An endo can make up for the 'fat gene' with other traits, or even combat it with diet and excercise. Be the best you that YOU can be. The winners get the girl because subconciously the girl is designed to want a winner to give her winner children. Relationships and sex really stem from this. It's mate selection that is underneith all the dating and other crap, hidden subconciously, even amongst those who don't plan on having kids. Sad, but true. There really is a good reason why some people just can't score with the opposite sex. I am one of them that aint doing so great, but that doesn't mean I can't improve and maybe even become a winner in my own way eventually. Don't get too caught up in trying to live up to an image, just tap into your own potential in whatever way you like. When you are good at what you do, and what you do matters, women will take notice. Being good looking definately helps because it is an easy trigger to the mating insticts. Women who love men with money arent' even all that shallow to a degree, afterall, it's natural for a female to go for a mate who can support their children and give seed for children who will be just as successful. Even guys who go for the girl with the great body aren't that shallow for the same reasons. Personality is important too, afterall, don't you want your kids to have personality? Why would you want to give birth to kids who are dim-whitted? So keep in mind WHY people are attracted to certain things, then it doesn't seem so wicked and shallow.

The trouble is with our self destructive society scheme, the fact that you can't have winners without loosers in competition, and that we are constantly tought some very un-natural ideas of what beuty and success are. Also, it sucks when people are ruthless and not merciful to those who aren't successful. Very complicated and sad for the individuals who don't get what they want out of life. God cares, I think :confused2: .

**Jayhawkk** · 01-08-2007, 09:24 PM

I can see wanting to not have children that are grossly disabled but to think that just because they aren't star athletes or scholars doesn't make them 'pathetic'. Values, morals, ethics are things that make a person successful in my eyes and those are taught to our kids. That's why it takes more than good genes to be a good parent. To each their own though.

**skelooth** · 01-08-2007, 09:46 PM

Vegeto: Thank you mr. David De'Angelo

David couldn't have said it himself.

Unfortunately that is just David's propoganda to make you THINK you have the chance with ANY woman no matter what you look like. Real world experiences dictate that to not be the case. There are too many factors.

Vegeto · 01-08-2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhawkk

I can see wanting to not have children that are grossly disabled but to think that just because they aren't star athletes or scholars doesn't make them 'pathetic'. Values, morals, ethics are things that make a person successful in my eyes and those are taught to our kids. That's why it takes more than good genes to be a good parent. To each their own though.

'Pathetic' is not my point of veiw, although I did use that word. I only meant to point out that 'being a looser' is a harsh reality for some, and although I don't subscribe to that point of veiw, it is out there and can hurt. Values, morals, and ethics are a function of the higher mind and are important. But, the foundation of attraction has nothing to do with it, or rather, it has everything to do with it. It is of good moral value to give your kids the best you can, including genetics. (That doesn't mean you need to breed an athlete with a genius every time) Also, values, morals, and ethics are things that only strong/inteligent people (not necesarily physically) are capable of maintaining. These things are still a measure of success or failure. A cold hard game of win or loose. Winners get the girl. There are many subsections of the game to play, meaning that there are more than one kind of winner and looser, but it is still a winner that gets the girl, even if morals and ethics are one measure being used to gauge success.

Most women seem to like a good combination of several traits or qualities. Living up to these is not easy for many people. No matter how good of morals you have, if you look like brian peppers and don't have much money, you will probably not fair too well. However, if you look like Brad Pitt, have a ton of money, even as one dirty bastard who plays by his own rules, you will certainly have oppritunities to mate. Most men who do well have an average blend of average looks, average income, and average morals/ethics/values. Most men aren't Brad Pitt, most men aren't Bill Gates, and most men aren't Jesus Christ. ..BTW, Jesus Christ was the only one of those three who didn't hook up (as far as I know).

I also agree that morals/values/ethics are very important, but I cannot deny the fact that there are strengths and abilities that are prerequisit to achieving morals/values/ethics in a real world scenario. Believe me, I have seen plenty of people who believe they are always right, but don't have the mental capacity to comprehend true rightousness on any special or even average level, good intentions or not. Heck, maybe I'm even one of them, but I try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelooth

Vegeto: Thank you mr. David De'Angelo

David couldn't have said it himself.

Unfortunately that is just David's propoganda to make you THINK you have the chance with ANY woman no matter what you look like. Real world experiences dictate that to not be the case. There are too many factors.

I think most men have potential to look good enough. Don't let this stuff get you down man, just focus on being the best version of you that you can be. (I should take my own advice). Getting back into shape, having good hygeine, and dressing well can go a long way, although without confidence and intrest, I'm not so sure. As long as you are trying to be the best version of you that you can be, for yourself and not for anyone else, you will be happier with or without getting women. If you eventually start to get women, all the better.

**romanaz** · 01-08-2007, 10:38 PM

I hear ya. Even though recently I've had more luck with women then in the past, its not 100% about looks, but looks play a huge part. Hell, I know tons of girls that won't give me the light of day because I'm overweight. But, there is still a good amount of girls that like me because they gave me the light of day. I hate to use this example because this friendship went to hell and died, but I met a chick at work, and I was immediately interested in her because she was cute and didn't dress like the rest of the snobby girls that worked at my store. I got the chance to train her and talk to her and she turned out to be be pretty smart and fun to talk to. And then after a while I missed my opportunity to get with her and she started dating this redneck that everyone didn't like. A few months into that I broke down and told her I liked her and all I got was a "I could see myself dating you, but matt got there first." And then she stopped talking to me because she thought anything I did around her was flirting with her (ok so I AM a big flirt, big deal, get over it), and that was bad for her relationship. This was years ago and I'm actually quite happy that nothing ever happened with this girl because she turned out to be a depressed lunatic who talked behind everyone's back and has, as Vegeto put it, bad genes. I feel bad for the redneck and her when they have kids.

ok thats my rant.

I hate society and how everyone has to look the way Calvin Klein ad's say we should. Its like how they say it in Fight Club "is that how a man is supposed to look?" as the narrator gestures to a Calvin Klein ad. Its pathetic. Look at the hero's of twenty years past, the Hulk, Rocky, other guys who are BIG and muscular, now we have... spiderman, the weak geek. It makes me sick seeing kids walking around that are smaller then the average girl. Don't these people realize that being that small isn't good??

01-08-2007, 04:30 AM	#1
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,183 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 154	I feel bad for people trying to lose weight who are my age.... I can really relate. It's like everyone just shields reality from themselves until one day it's right there and they can't hide anymore. THE WORLD IS SHALLOW, and if you don't look good physically no one will give the "inside you" a moments chance. It's just so sad, because there are so many people I have talked to, or know... that just feel like being in shape is the begin all end all. They've realized how **ed up the world is, and now they are just as ed up in their heads as I am about it... only in many cases I am way ahead of the game and started much longer before them. It's sad because I know how they feel... the inadequacy they feel... the feeling that they just can't change enough, and that they just can't be good enough unless they look like someone from a magazine. It's just so **in sad, and partly it's sad because it's true... __________________

01-08-2007, 12:38 PM	#2
Jayhawkk Nutraplanet Rep Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,106 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 44	Well I agree and yet disagree as well. Being in shape now means more about living life to its fullest without feeling like shit. My back is so out of whack right now that standing up to do the dishes requires recovery time. Being able to keep up with your kids or plays some sports every now and again is nice. Living your later years outside of a walker and oxygen tanks is a plus too. While none of this is a guarentee you do have a much better shot being in decent shape rather than out of shape. Although your points of people being shallow and doors not opening due to the way a person looks are valid. __________________ Nutraplanet.com for all your supplement needs! ------------------------------ Hangin's too good for 'em! BURNIN'S too good for 'em! They should be ripped into itsy-bitsy little pieces and BURIED ALIVE!

01-08-2007, 01:35 PM	#3
NYCmitch25 Silver Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,086 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 50	western diet + desk job + laziness = overweight americans __________________ "I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds." - Rollins

01-08-2007, 02:52 PM	#5
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,183 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 154	And a sad dream it is. It's more of a nightmare. We're a country of fatties... __________________

01-08-2007, 03:44 PM	#8
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,183 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 154	That's not really what I'm talking about, but I know exactly where you're saying. Wether having a great body changes your life or not wasn't the point. The point is that I feel a LOT of sympathy for a lot of people I know. There's a few people in particular (girls) who seem to have just realized in their mid 20s "omg, I'm so fat that no half way descent guy will even touch me". I can literally just FEEL the horrible frustration they are going through, and I can relate to the feelings so much that it hurts. If I were to put it as an analogy, it's like... sure you might feel bad for someone who's dog died, but if you lost a dog yourself you will really understand and even feel their pain that much more. What's worse is the feeling of urgency and despair. There's like 4 people I talk to right now who are just doing cardio every single day and damn near starving themselves. And they're doing it for all the wrong reasons much like I have in the past. It's like watching a repeat of a horror movie. edit: For the sake of arguement. Now that I've put on a few pounds again, I will attest that there is a stark difference in the way I am treated by the opposite sex. Muscle Bound Patrick = Girls will want to be my friend. Chubby patrick (which looks even worse with muscle underneath imo) = avoidance at all costs. This is not in my head, it's in THEIRS. It's their genetic programming. __________________

01-08-2007, 03:06 PM	#6
ja_ke Pro Stature Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Allen Park, MI Posts: 207 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 7	I know what you're saying. I used to be 5' 10" 275 lbs with basically no friends but a computer. Then I got down to 165 and all of a sudden I had a TON of friends which basically led to me being depressed for about 6 months. Then I started working out and now 2 years later I am happy with myself, but for 2 reasons; 1. I now could really careless less and do pretty much everything I do for myself an dnot for others. 2. I am happiest with my body I have ever been. Maybe sound shallow, but it isn't like anyone ever sees me with my shirt off besides my girlfriend. It isn't for others I am just pround of myself that I have came so far. That was kind of a rant and got somewhat off topic. I guess I am just trying to say I agree and to do things for youself not others. Not <i>everyone</i> is shallow.

01-08-2007, 06:14 PM	#10
madman911 Metamorphosizing Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston Area Posts: 1,526 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 60	Yeah, part of the reason I missed your point is that I guess I'm old... the way the college kids think is way different from the way we over-thirty people think. In my world, being overweight is more accepted as "the way it is". A bodybuilder over the age of thirty is viewed by their contemporaries as an abnormality, as someone bucking the system... a rebel. Once you're part of the 'married with children' crowd most people can't imagine why you'd bother exerting the discipline and effort required be in great shape. The definition of "great shape" also changes as you get older. If you're over 30, you have a gym membership, you workout at least once a week, and your gut doesn't completely hang over your pants, then you get to say "hey, I'm in great shape." __________________ Millennium Sport Technologies Sponsored Athlete http://www.millenniumsport.net IMPC 2006 Novice Division Champ IMPC 2007 Open Division Champ Never underestimate the power of the bandana.

01-08-2007, 09:15 PM	#11
Vegeto blameless sinner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 803 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 15	As a natural ecto-type, I don't share the same problems, I have my own. I have to say though, it's complicated and sad. On the one hand, if there was total acceptance of people regardless of physcial shape, there would be no motivation for people to improve themselves. On the other side, people who cannot change (the right way) are even more misserable because of the lack of acceptance. All at the same time, we have a very difficult standard to live up to, while we are being sold everything that leads to the opposite of that standard. Buy MacDonalds, but don't be a fat. C'mon world, stop being such a b1tch. Have you seen the Burger King commercials that make healthy food out to be 'chick food'? Yeah sure, if you don't eat greasy crap, your not a real 'guy'. The only way is to find your own standards and live up to them. You can't please everybody, but I guess you can try if you want. Be sure though, the natural selection process is there for a reason. Those who can't be strong, smart, or successful in some way are not meant to have children. Those who can play the game successfully are those who's children will have the best shot at playing the game successfully. Honestly, I don't want fat kids, so I am less likely to consider a girl who is fat and comes from a fat family. Why would I want to do that to my kids? But hey, if a girl can get it under control and shows she has a mind that can overcome her body, then I may consider it. A mind that strong is surely good genetic material for my kids. It's not always 'shallow', nor does it have anything to do with whether I have the right to judge or not. It's just not right to give birth to kids who you know are going to be pathetic, no matter how much you want to live the 'american dream'. An endo can make up for the 'fat gene' with other traits, or even combat it with diet and excercise. Be the best you that YOU can be. The winners get the girl because subconciously the girl is designed to want a winner to give her winner children. Relationships and sex really stem from this. It's mate selection that is underneith all the dating and other crap, hidden subconciously, even amongst those who don't plan on having kids. Sad, but true. There really is a good reason why some people just can't score with the opposite sex. I am one of them that aint doing so great, but that doesn't mean I can't improve and maybe even become a winner in my own way eventually. Don't get too caught up in trying to live up to an image, just tap into your own potential in whatever way you like. When you are good at what you do, and what you do matters, women will take notice. Being good looking definately helps because it is an easy trigger to the mating insticts. Women who love men with money arent' even all that shallow to a degree, afterall, it's natural for a female to go for a mate who can support their children and give seed for children who will be just as successful. Even guys who go for the girl with the great body aren't that shallow for the same reasons. Personality is important too, afterall, don't you want your kids to have personality? Why would you want to give birth to kids who are dim-whitted? So keep in mind WHY people are attracted to certain things, then it doesn't seem so wicked and shallow. The trouble is with our self destructive society scheme, the fact that you can't have winners without loosers in competition, and that we are constantly tought some very un-natural ideas of what beuty and success are. Also, it sucks when people are ruthless and not merciful to those who aren't successful. Very complicated and sad for the individuals who don't get what they want out of life. God cares, I think :confused2: . __________________ ______________ ________________ ......Busy Training...... __________________ ________________ __________________

01-08-2007, 09:24 PM	#12
Jayhawkk Nutraplanet Rep Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,106 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 44	I can see wanting to not have children that are grossly disabled but to think that just because they aren't star athletes or scholars doesn't make them 'pathetic'. Values, morals, ethics are things that make a person successful in my eyes and those are taught to our kids. That's why it takes more than good genes to be a good parent. To each their own though. __________________ Nutraplanet.com for all your supplement needs! ------------------------------ Hangin's too good for 'em! BURNIN'S too good for 'em! They should be ripped into itsy-bitsy little pieces and BURIED ALIVE!

01-08-2007, 09:46 PM	#13
skelooth eh heh heh Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Behind you Posts: 7,183 Recipes: 0 Rep Power: 154	Vegeto: Thank you mr. David De'Angelo David couldn't have said it himself. Unfortunately that is just David's propoganda to make you THINK you have the chance with ANY woman no matter what you look like. Real world experiences dictate that to not be the case. There are too many factors. __________________