2Ripped4U

Those illegal immigrants if they think this country is so great, why don't we sign them up for a free trip to afganistan or Iraq to fight for 'their' country

powerman2000

Ummmm, cuz they aren't U.S. citizens.

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skelooth

because we have an all volunteer military, the same exact reason YOU AND ME are not over in Iraq fighting for our country. Every single person in this country aside from those who are direct mexican/native american/eskimo heritage comes from the blood of an immigrant.

My grandparents came here on a boat from Italy. Should they not have been allowed to?

Other countries (even ones you wouldn't imagine, like switzerland) have MANDATORY military enlistment for all men. All we have is a draft agreement that won't be called unless it's a last resort.

If you don't like the immigrants, than either a) you can leave, or b) call your local government official and discuss what can be done politically at the expense of their careers.

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Crobar

Yeah well, why not send all the murderers and rapist too.

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skelooth

I actually seem to recall the military having some sort of citizenship/immigration program... though I forget the whole story behind it and which countries it applies to.

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Crobar

You can enlist and fight for this country as a permanent resident too.

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powerman2000

I agree with what you say here, but I haven't figured out yet what the big political advantage is for a U.S. politician to allow Pres. Fox and the current immigration situation to fester this way. In otherwords, I don't understand why Pres. Bush and others don't do anything. Is it votes? It can't be the case for Bush, so what is it then?

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powerman2000

I believe we are talking about illegal immigrants, not permanent residents.

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LukasJ

I think it applies to protecterates of the united states. Such as a citizen of peurto rico, guam, virgin islands while not a state of the us and only a protectorate can serve in our military as a citizen.

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skelooth

It's votes.

Uhh you prolly wouldn't of heard much about this unless you're a dem... but just a few months right before the last election Bushy and the gop rushed through a bill that allowed thousands upon thousands of illegal immigrants to gain citizenship if they'd been living and working here for x amount of time. It was a blitz to give suffrage. (Figuring they'd think "hey, this guy made me a citizen, I'll vote for him").

What we gain by Mexican immigration in specific is cheap manual labor for farm land and service type jobs like waiters/maids, etc. It's very well known and documented not to mention far reaching in all 48 states.

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CDB

I don't think anyone has a problem with immigrants. However, we either will have a process for legal immigration or we won't, and it will be enforced or it won't. If we don't have a policy, or we do and it's not enforced, that's open borders plain and simple. If that's what people want that's fine, but it should be framed as such in an honest debate. If we do have a policy and it's enforced, that means illegal immigrants, those who have not complied with the law, have to be subject to some kind of penalty up to and including deportation. Comparing the wave of illegal immigration to the legal immigrants of the past and present is simply a false analogy. There's a difference between someone who comes here legally, takes any and all tests required and who complies with the law and someone who two-steps over the border illegally. There is also genuine national security interest in knowing who is coming in and out of this country. There is also the issue of the added stress on infrastructure and civil systems. I myself am the child of a first generation immgrant in my mother, and my father was the son of immigrants. But they came here legally.

Specific to Mexican illegals there is a major problem in that Mexico is essentially pushing their unwanted population on to us. There's no reason why in a country like Mexico, which actually has a reasonable yearly income per person and is fairly rich in resources and business opportunities, that there should be such poverty. There's a corrupt government that is allowing one portion of their population to marginalize another, and then they cross the border to come here for work and a chance at something better. I have no problem with that, as long as they sign the damn guest book on the way in. I'm not against legal immigration on their part and even the guest worker option to allow them to come here and work but not necessarily stay, if that's the option they want. I'm all for freedom and allowing people a chance to work for something better. But to a great degree by doing that we're subsidizing the bad and morally wrong decisions of a corrupt foreign government. So long as we're doing that it's necessary to understand that the flood of people who want to come here from Mexico will do nothing but increase because the root problem in their home country will be allowed to continue.

And, call me crazy, but if they love this country and want to be citizens so badly, why was it necessary for someone to tell them it might be a good idea for them to wave American flags, not Mexican ones as they were marching up and down the streets paid for by the tax dollars of citizens and legal immigrants? Another issue, one that most people are too politically correct to bring up, is the cultural issue. To be blunt I kind of like the western Judeo Christian ideals of freedom, individual responsibility, limited government and morality and ethics that generall prevail in this country right now, and I'm not so hot on an influx of immigrants voting us into a Third World or European type of socialized government that will take an even more massive chunk of my paycheck and redistribute it to the corrupt and the 'needy.' And all because the only problem a lot of the people who emmigrated had with their home country was not that their government was a massive, corrupt, money sucking tyranical beast, but simply that they weren't in charge of that beast.

Crobar

I know that. You made your post as if only citizen joined the military.


And its crap cause I came here legally and how can they just give these people citizen status?

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Pj-Macx

Exactly....

Out here is Cali.. the illegals are everywhere.. taking jobs from people because the company's know they can pay them less.. what about the illegals who steal someone SS# so they can get a job.. these people are NOT paying any taxes.. state or federal.. but getting all the benefits of living and working here..

I am sorry something needs to be done.. someone told me once that we need them to take the jobs that the americans wont take... where in the world did they get that crap... how do they know americans wont take them.. they dont.. cause they have always just give them to illegals.. why.. cause they dont have to pay the "amercian min wage" is why... I would gladly go work at a McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger King, conveince store.. or a restaurant.. but can I.. NO.. because all the jobs are taken by illegals.. so I have to just get by.. because I cant go earn a living at one of these jobs.. because I dont come from Mexico.. and didnt sneak across the border in the middle of the night.. to hang my Mexican flag in the rear window of my car.. and in the front yard of my house or apartment..

Am I a bit bitter.. yea.. I guess I am.. but I could use a job too.. but no one wants to step up and tell these people it is time to go back home.. or sign the papers and become legal.. if they dont want to be citizens.. then they need to go home...

rant off now.... :fingersxd

Just my opinion...

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pammiejoe6

CDB great post!

interestingly there are many soldiers over in Iraq right now whose parents are not legal US citizens...



these people cannot help where they were born...most simply want to better their lives and the lives of their children and families...there HAS to be a happy medium somewhere...

CDB

Policywise perhaps. I'm sure many of the people who came here legally, who learned English and some US history, and went through the entire process of becoming a citizen would be a little put off by any happy medium that invalidates the process they took the effort to go through.

One other thing to consider is government programs and laws that give preferential treatment to minorities. These people have not paid into the US system but are still straining it, everything from roads to hospitals to social security, and what's more because of their ethnic background can coceivably be given preferential treatment over nonqualifying citizens in some circumstances.

In the end there will always be immigrants of legal and illegal status, and the illegals will have to be dealt some sort of punative action and that is basically what is being protested now, and what many people are rhetorically trying to drown be redefining illegal immigrants as undocumented workers or other such phrases. Bottom line is a law has been broken and it isn't like a jaywalking ticket. Having some reasonable control over the borders is necessary. It's a much more complicated issue too, since the 9/11 hijackers came here legally but stayed illegally, at least the majority did I believe. What is essentially being protested right now is enforcement of immigration law, and enforcement of those laws could conceivably have stopped 9/11 if we booted the hijackers out when their visas had expired, or had stricter controls on who was allowed in to this country to begin with.

We need to define an acceptable immigration policy and then quite simply kick out anyone who doesn't comply.

BigZeke

The problems are twofold. It is unconstitutional and there is no guarantee that they will actually fight, or stay in country once sent there.

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